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[Marbling] Over-aluming

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  • irisnevins
    Hi Jake........if I get alum ruined size, if it isn t too bad you may be able to clean it off numerous times. Or toss it and start over. I use aluminum
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 13, 2002
      Hi Jake........if I get alum ruined size, if it isn't too bad you may be
      able to clean it off numerous times. Or toss it and start over.

      I use aluminum sulphate and though standard measurement is one Tbs. to a
      cup water, I use at least 2 cups of water with no decrease in efficacy. For
      fabric I use 3 cups water.

      If I marble paper with my acrylics (which I do not tend to use....not
      traditional looking enough) I generally do not need alum at all on most
      papers, and also do not need to rinse. Wish it were possible with the
      watercolors.

      As for the paper, can you run it through a plain water bath or rinse them?

      Iris Nevins
      www.marblinpaper.com
    • jemiljan
      ... be ... is one Tbs. to a ... efficacy. For ... use....not ... on most ... with the ... rinse them? ... I have tried rinsing papers before, but a while ago,
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 13, 2002
        --- In Marbling@y..., irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
        > Hi Jake........if I get alum ruined size, if it isn't too bad you may
        be
        > able to clean it off numerous times. Or toss it and start over.
        >
        > I use aluminum sulphate and though standard measurement
        is one Tbs. to a
        > cup water, I use at least 2 cups of water with no decrease in
        efficacy. For
        > fabric I use 3 cups water.
        >
        > If I marble paper with my acrylics (which I do not tend to
        use....not
        > traditional looking enough) I generally do not need alum at all
        on most
        > papers, and also do not need to rinse. Wish it were possible
        with the
        > watercolors.
        >
        > As for the paper, can you run it through a plain water bath or
        rinse them?
        >
        > Iris Nevins
        > www.marblinpaper.com

        I have tried rinsing papers before, but a while ago, with different
        stock. Turned out that paper was having problems due to
        recycled contect and strange, inconsistent sizing. I'll try again
        and let you know.

        I have also found that spraying a little deionized (or distilled)
        water over the surface, before skimming seems to "clarify" the
        bath, though not completely. I did manage to catch the problem
        in time so it's not so bad- and can be "hidden" by doing shell
        spot patterns, so the white areas appear as veins.

        I use aluminum sulfate, which is an industrial grade that I get in
        25 lb buckets form McMaster -Carr. It is not as pure as some
        grades, so I started making up solution and letting it settle for
        some time, sediment collects at the bottom, clarifying the
        solution before use. I have been using 2 tbsp per quart of water.
        So it's the same as the 1 tbsp to 2 cups water. the thing is that if
        my "double strength " solution is causing so much trouble, then
        maybe it isn't just the alum. So I look to other sources...

        I have noticed a big difference in something so basic- the
        newspaper that I use for skimming. My local newspaper
        changed format a little while age. They went from using a larger
        sheet size, to a smaller sheet size to save money. Apparently
        many newspapers all over the country are doing this. Well, whn
        they changed, the new newspaper stock was TERRIBLE. It falls
        apart instantly. I need to use 2 sheets at a time just to be able to
        hold onto the paper (I should mention I'm working in a BIG [28" x
        95"] tray and skim with whole sheets of newspaper, not little
        strips as some do in smaller trays).

        I happen to have some "virgin" newsprint that I got from a paper
        distributor for wrapping, and using for "gluing out" in
        bookbinding. Now that's a nice sheet of newsprint! Seems to
        have more pulp, better pulp? better wet strength at least.
        Perhaps it has more "craft" content? I wonder if it may "absorb
        more" than my newspapers. Perhaps the newspapers are also
        adding pollution (since it disintegrates), rather than truly
        skimming. This is true both when the paper is "aged" for
        months, or fresh from the press. I usually let them "age" as they
        seem drier, and less likley to get black ink all over everything.

        Has anyone else noticed this problem with the newsprint? A
        paper anyone recommends? Printed on better stock than the
        South Carolina State Newpaper.... Maybe I should get the New
        York Times weekend? Do the tabloids- New York Post or the
        Boston Herald, even the National Enquirer have worthwhile
        properties?

        On the other hand, there is another issue that I can think of too.
        many companies have converted to using "earth friendly" printing
        procedures. This includes using soy based inks, and using
        surfactant waterbased clean-up products that are designed for
        these "softer" inks (the "old way" was to use solvents). I know
        that for some (black and white) potions of the paper, they are
        using this, but still use the "toxic stuff" for the color printing. Am I
        putting soybean oil in my tray?!? I tried to getthe end of the roll
        from the printshop, and used that, but it still fell apart in the bath.

        I never thought I might have to BUY my newsprint for skimming...
        c'est la vie...

        jake
      • irisnevins
        Hey Jake....Wall Street Journal works like a charm......my local paper shrunk too!!! WSJ is BIG!!! Iris
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
          Hey Jake....Wall Street Journal works like a charm......my local paper
          shrunk too!!! WSJ is BIG!!!

          Iris
        • Laura Sims
          Iris, Wall Street is my favorite too. I made a contact with someone who delvers them. I get the left overs. As far as alum for marbling with Golden acrylics
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
            Iris,

            Wall Street is my favorite too. I made a contact with
            someone who delvers them. I get the left overs.

            As far as alum for marbling with Golden acrylics on
            paper I have to make the solution stronger to get it
            to stick consistently. I use 4 teaspoons per cup of
            water. For fabric I use 1/2 cup to a gallon (1 1/2
            teaspoons to 1 cup water).

            Best, Laura


            --- irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
            > Hey Jake....Wall Street Journal works like a
            > charm......my local paper
            > shrunk too!!! WSJ is BIG!!!
            >
            > Iris
            >
            >


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          • IrisNevins
            Funny.....nothing works the same for ANYONE in marbling....it s really a wonder it has survived at all, isn t it?? Iris
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
              Funny.....nothing works the same for ANYONE in marbling....it's really a
              wonder it has survived at all, isn't it??
              Iris
            • jemiljan
              ... really a ... I tried USA Today, but I had the same problem. Then I found out that USA Today is actually printed all over the country in different areas.
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
                --- In Marbling@y..., IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                > Funny.....nothing works the same for ANYONE in marbling....it's
                really a
                > wonder it has survived at all, isn't it??
                > Iris

                I tried USA Today, but I had the same problem. Then I found out
                that USA Today is actually printed all over the country in different
                areas. Our version is printed here on the same press as the
                local paper, on the same stock, with the same soybean inks.


                Gee, this is like archival paper- great for longvity, bad for
                marbling.

                Are soy based inks on newsprint our next issue?
                Earth friendly- but bad for skimming?

                I'll try the WSJ THANKS!!
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