Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Over-aluming

Expand Messages
  • Jake Benson
    hello to everyone, Well, I can t beleive I did this, but perhaps we can learn from is. I made up some alum solution a while ago- only I forgot one vital bit
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 13, 2002
      hello to everyone,

      'Well, I can't beleive I did this, but perhaps we can learn from is. I made
      up some alum solution a while ago- only I forgot one vital bit of info. I
      had made the solution DOUBLE strength, intending to dilute the solution 50%
      when I wanted to treat the paper ( I treat with painting "edger" only onthe
      surface, not dipping the sheet into solution). Well, I forgot to label the
      fact it was double strangth, and wound up aluming a bunch of appers with it
      that way. I started marbling, and POW, I had serious alum pollution in my
      bath. Boy I felt stupid!

      So, my question to the wise and masterful is this: How do I:

      a) reduce the alum concentratation on the sheet surface. I recall reading
      in Ink & gall some years back that a fabric dyer mentioned that when dying
      fabric, you can mordant the fabric, and then wash it again. The excess
      mordant washes out, leaving only what is necessary. Of course, I have no
      citation for this, and admit I am relying on rusty brain cells. Does anyone
      out there recall this? tried it out?

      b) reduce alum pollution in the bath. Well, I know there is n't too much I
      can do about that one, other than start again. Prevention is always the
      best remedy. Still, I wondered if anyone out there had dreamed up a
      wonderful "alum-away" trick.

      I would like to open up discussion concerning mordanting in general, what
      people have found useful in which situation, which material they are
      marbling, proportions, specific type (potassium aluminium sulfate, versus
      aluminum sulfate), supply source, etc. etc. We could even touch on the
      delicate issue of mordanting versus non- mordanting.

      Kind regards to all,

      Jake Benson




      Benson's Hand Bindery
      Fine Custom Bookbinding & Conservation
      Hand Marbled Papers
      1319 B Summerville Ave.
      Columbia S.C. 29201
      Phone: 803.799.1853
      jemiljan@...





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • irisnevins
      Hi Jake........if I get alum ruined size, if it isn t too bad you may be able to clean it off numerous times. Or toss it and start over. I use aluminum
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 13, 2002
        Hi Jake........if I get alum ruined size, if it isn't too bad you may be
        able to clean it off numerous times. Or toss it and start over.

        I use aluminum sulphate and though standard measurement is one Tbs. to a
        cup water, I use at least 2 cups of water with no decrease in efficacy. For
        fabric I use 3 cups water.

        If I marble paper with my acrylics (which I do not tend to use....not
        traditional looking enough) I generally do not need alum at all on most
        papers, and also do not need to rinse. Wish it were possible with the
        watercolors.

        As for the paper, can you run it through a plain water bath or rinse them?

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblinpaper.com
      • jemiljan
        ... be ... is one Tbs. to a ... efficacy. For ... use....not ... on most ... with the ... rinse them? ... I have tried rinsing papers before, but a while ago,
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 13, 2002
          --- In Marbling@y..., irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
          > Hi Jake........if I get alum ruined size, if it isn't too bad you may
          be
          > able to clean it off numerous times. Or toss it and start over.
          >
          > I use aluminum sulphate and though standard measurement
          is one Tbs. to a
          > cup water, I use at least 2 cups of water with no decrease in
          efficacy. For
          > fabric I use 3 cups water.
          >
          > If I marble paper with my acrylics (which I do not tend to
          use....not
          > traditional looking enough) I generally do not need alum at all
          on most
          > papers, and also do not need to rinse. Wish it were possible
          with the
          > watercolors.
          >
          > As for the paper, can you run it through a plain water bath or
          rinse them?
          >
          > Iris Nevins
          > www.marblinpaper.com

          I have tried rinsing papers before, but a while ago, with different
          stock. Turned out that paper was having problems due to
          recycled contect and strange, inconsistent sizing. I'll try again
          and let you know.

          I have also found that spraying a little deionized (or distilled)
          water over the surface, before skimming seems to "clarify" the
          bath, though not completely. I did manage to catch the problem
          in time so it's not so bad- and can be "hidden" by doing shell
          spot patterns, so the white areas appear as veins.

          I use aluminum sulfate, which is an industrial grade that I get in
          25 lb buckets form McMaster -Carr. It is not as pure as some
          grades, so I started making up solution and letting it settle for
          some time, sediment collects at the bottom, clarifying the
          solution before use. I have been using 2 tbsp per quart of water.
          So it's the same as the 1 tbsp to 2 cups water. the thing is that if
          my "double strength " solution is causing so much trouble, then
          maybe it isn't just the alum. So I look to other sources...

          I have noticed a big difference in something so basic- the
          newspaper that I use for skimming. My local newspaper
          changed format a little while age. They went from using a larger
          sheet size, to a smaller sheet size to save money. Apparently
          many newspapers all over the country are doing this. Well, whn
          they changed, the new newspaper stock was TERRIBLE. It falls
          apart instantly. I need to use 2 sheets at a time just to be able to
          hold onto the paper (I should mention I'm working in a BIG [28" x
          95"] tray and skim with whole sheets of newspaper, not little
          strips as some do in smaller trays).

          I happen to have some "virgin" newsprint that I got from a paper
          distributor for wrapping, and using for "gluing out" in
          bookbinding. Now that's a nice sheet of newsprint! Seems to
          have more pulp, better pulp? better wet strength at least.
          Perhaps it has more "craft" content? I wonder if it may "absorb
          more" than my newspapers. Perhaps the newspapers are also
          adding pollution (since it disintegrates), rather than truly
          skimming. This is true both when the paper is "aged" for
          months, or fresh from the press. I usually let them "age" as they
          seem drier, and less likley to get black ink all over everything.

          Has anyone else noticed this problem with the newsprint? A
          paper anyone recommends? Printed on better stock than the
          South Carolina State Newpaper.... Maybe I should get the New
          York Times weekend? Do the tabloids- New York Post or the
          Boston Herald, even the National Enquirer have worthwhile
          properties?

          On the other hand, there is another issue that I can think of too.
          many companies have converted to using "earth friendly" printing
          procedures. This includes using soy based inks, and using
          surfactant waterbased clean-up products that are designed for
          these "softer" inks (the "old way" was to use solvents). I know
          that for some (black and white) potions of the paper, they are
          using this, but still use the "toxic stuff" for the color printing. Am I
          putting soybean oil in my tray?!? I tried to getthe end of the roll
          from the printshop, and used that, but it still fell apart in the bath.

          I never thought I might have to BUY my newsprint for skimming...
          c'est la vie...

          jake
        • irisnevins
          Hey Jake....Wall Street Journal works like a charm......my local paper shrunk too!!! WSJ is BIG!!! Iris
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
            Hey Jake....Wall Street Journal works like a charm......my local paper
            shrunk too!!! WSJ is BIG!!!

            Iris
          • Laura Sims
            Iris, Wall Street is my favorite too. I made a contact with someone who delvers them. I get the left overs. As far as alum for marbling with Golden acrylics
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
              Iris,

              Wall Street is my favorite too. I made a contact with
              someone who delvers them. I get the left overs.

              As far as alum for marbling with Golden acrylics on
              paper I have to make the solution stronger to get it
              to stick consistently. I use 4 teaspoons per cup of
              water. For fabric I use 1/2 cup to a gallon (1 1/2
              teaspoons to 1 cup water).

              Best, Laura


              --- irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
              > Hey Jake....Wall Street Journal works like a
              > charm......my local paper
              > shrunk too!!! WSJ is BIG!!!
              >
              > Iris
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
              http://greetings.yahoo.com
            • IrisNevins
              Funny.....nothing works the same for ANYONE in marbling....it s really a wonder it has survived at all, isn t it?? Iris
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
                Funny.....nothing works the same for ANYONE in marbling....it's really a
                wonder it has survived at all, isn't it??
                Iris
              • jemiljan
                ... really a ... I tried USA Today, but I had the same problem. Then I found out that USA Today is actually printed all over the country in different areas.
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 14, 2002
                  --- In Marbling@y..., IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                  > Funny.....nothing works the same for ANYONE in marbling....it's
                  really a
                  > wonder it has survived at all, isn't it??
                  > Iris

                  I tried USA Today, but I had the same problem. Then I found out
                  that USA Today is actually printed all over the country in different
                  areas. Our version is printed here on the same press as the
                  local paper, on the same stock, with the same soybean inks.


                  Gee, this is like archival paper- great for longvity, bad for
                  marbling.

                  Are soy based inks on newsprint our next issue?
                  Earth friendly- but bad for skimming?

                  I'll try the WSJ THANKS!!
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.