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Re: [Marbling] (unknown)

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  • Sonja Idema
    Shelagh! I too live in Canada and found it impossible to find carrageenan here when I went on a search a few years ago...I too found a supplier for the food
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 9, 2001
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      Shelagh!
      I too live in Canada and found it impossible to find carrageenan here
      when I went on a search a few years ago...I too found a supplier for the
      food grade carrageenan in Ontario somewhere but it again did not thicken
      the way I thought it should. I can't remember the name of the company
      or the product off hand. I resorted to buying it through the US as
      well, but had to buy a large quantity to make it worth my while. I
      believe the carrageenan you're looking for is exactly what Iris had
      mentioned and what I had been looking for as well...Viscarin GP209,
      non-food grade.
      Good luck on your search, and if you find of a good supplier here, let
      me know too!

      Sonja

      Franklyn Smith wrote:

      > The substances were all various forms of carageenhan. As you know
      > carageenhan is a family of seaweeds and not one specific one.
      > They were sent me by Food Specialties in Georgetown, Ontario. Their
      > names for them followed by the results where I recorde them are
      > Benlacta S-100 [ lots of residue much foaming, dissolved in boiling
      > water], Benstabi BF 44 [thickens with lots of boiling], Benlacta CM
      > 750 [thickens with boiling], for all of these the colour doesn't move
      > at all; Benlacta K1 16B, Benlacta L 101, Benlacta L80, Lambda CL 800
      > [dissolves, thickens a lot in cold water].
      >
      > There were many different problems, mostly with the colour not
      > expanding or contracting, but some sinking, not combing, forming tiny
      > spots as with no oxgall etc. Of course I experimented with different
      > quantities of oxgall to no effect.
      >
      > I have never found a source for carageenhan in Canada which is
      > ridiculous since much of it originates in Nova Scotia. Yehudah Miklaf
      > when he was living in Toronto found a source but for a huge quantity.
      >
      > Shelagh Smith
    • J Dolphin
      Yes--a source IN Canada has eluded me as well.....Now there s a thought! WHAT IF us Canucks banded together--Found this stuff here--got it shipped to one of
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 9, 2001
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        Yes--a source IN Canada has eluded me as well.....Now there's a thought! WHAT IF us Canucks banded together--Found this stuff here--got it shipped to one of us--subdivided it--and shipped it on again. Just a thought!
        Jill

        I have never found a source for carageenhan in Canada which is ridiculous since much of it originates in Nova Scotia. Yehudah Miklaf when he was living in Toronto found a source but for a huge quantity.

        Shelagh Smith

      • oguzhan tugrul
        Dear Laura, how do I know if I m on the participant list in Arrowmont? What to do? I want to participate in marbled glass works. Wish you and the group A
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 1, 2002
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          Dear Laura,
          how do I know  if I'm on the participant list in Arrowmont? What to do?
          I want to participate in 'marbled glass' works.
          Wish you and the group  A HAPPY NEW YEAR.
          cordially,
          Oguzhan from ARTISTAnBUL
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:34 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)

          Dear Fellow Marblers
           
          There was a request for an update on the International Marblers' Gathering 2002.  I wanted to give a tentative schedule and tentative list of prestenters.  A website should be up in November at Arrowmont.
           
          Wednesday night will open with a gallery exhibition of the presenters' and juried work.  Thursday will be an "Open Portfolio" Day for anyone who wants to participate...basically a buy, sell and trade day.  Friday and Saturday will be a mix of demonstrations and lectures.  Saturday night will end with a cook-out at a pavilion in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. 
           
          There will be spaces for approximately 190 participants.  On-line registration will be available.  We are planning to start registration at the end of February.
           
          We are very excited about the list of presenters so far.  It is a good mix of familiar faces from other gatherings, as well as new faces.  Historical techniques and innovative processes will be explored, as well as several interesting lectures.  Methods on paper, fabric, wood and clay are to be shared.  The names are listed in random order.
           
          Diane Maurer Mathison, Tom Leech, Iris Nevins, Marie Palowoda, Nedim Sonmez, Einen Miura, Tini Miura, Milena Hughes, James Currier, Jake Benson, Gail McKenzie, and Feridun Ozogoren.
           
          If you have not filled out Marie Palowoda's directory information please do so.  It is in the archives.  If you are on Marie's list you are on the mailing list for registration.
           
          Best to each of you,
          Laura Sims, Conference Chair
           


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        • Laura Sims
          Dear Oguzhan and Marbling Group, I wanted to give you a few updates. If you have filled out a directory form with Marie Palowoda (marie@ctos.com) you will
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 3, 2002
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            Dear Oguzhan and Marbling Group,

            I wanted to give you a few updates. If you have
            filled out a directory form with Marie Palowoda
            (marie@...) you will receive a brochure by mail.
            The brochures should be sent out the end of Januray.
            Also, the website will be up by the end of this month
            at www.arrowmont.org.

            Dates to remember: FEBRUARY 21 registration begins.
            You may register online. YOu may want to register
            early since it is being well publicized. Registration
            and meals are combined for a cost of $350 plus room.
            APRIL 25 slides are due for the juried exhibition. A
            prospectus will be in the brochure and on the website.

            Best Regards, Laura

            --- oguzhan tugrul <uygur13@...> wrote:
            > Dear Laura,
            > how do I know if I'm on the participant list in
            > Arrowmont? What to do?
            > I want to participate in 'marbled glass' works.
            > Wish you and the group A HAPPY NEW YEAR.
            > cordially,
            > Oguzhan from ARTISTAnBUL
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Laura Sims
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            > Cc: jemiljan@...
            > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:34 AM
            > Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)
            >
            >
            > Dear Fellow Marblers
            >
            > There was a request for an update on the
            > International Marblers' Gathering 2002. I wanted to
            > give a tentative schedule and tentative list of
            > prestenters. A website should be up in November at
            > Arrowmont.
            >
            > Wednesday night will open with a gallery
            > exhibition of the presenters' and juried work.
            > Thursday will be an "Open Portfolio" Day for anyone
            > who wants to participate...basically a buy, sell and
            > trade day. Friday and Saturday will be a mix of
            > demonstrations and lectures. Saturday night will
            > end with a cook-out at a pavilion in the Great Smoky
            > Mountain National Park.
            >
            > There will be spaces for approximately 190
            > participants. On-line registration will be
            > available. We are planning to start registration at
            > the end of February.
            >
            > We are very excited about the list of presenters
            > so far. It is a good mix of familiar faces from
            > other gatherings, as well as new faces. Historical
            > techniques and innovative processes will be
            > explored, as well as several interesting lectures.
            > Methods on paper, fabric, wood and clay are to be
            > shared. The names are listed in random order.
            >
            > Diane Maurer Mathison, Tom Leech, Iris Nevins,
            > Marie Palowoda, Nedim Sonmez, Einen Miura, Tini
            > Miura, Milena Hughes, James Currier, Jake Benson,
            > Gail McKenzie, and Feridun Ozogoren.
            >
            > If you have not filled out Marie Palowoda's
            > directory information please do so. It is in the
            > archives. If you are on Marie's list you are on the
            > mailing list for registration.
            >
            > Best to each of you,
            > Laura Sims, Conference Chair
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • irisnevins
            Hi Susanne.....I am working on an article for the Marbling Journal on papers (Marie....I PROMISE IT SOON, should be another week or two of testing a few more
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 15, 2003
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              Hi Susanne.....I am working on an article for the Marbling Journal on
              papers (Marie....I PROMISE IT SOON, should be another week or two of
              testing a few more papers) I will post my findings ahead on this group. I
              am testing a lot of papers right now, and sadly most don't work, due to
              calcium carbonate buffering.

              The ones I like best right now and will likely choose as my standby papers
              are Hahnemuele Ingres for a textured and Permalin for a smooth paper. The
              Ingres is in big art stores but expensive. Permalin is in NYC at
              212-768-7500. You can request swatch books and sheets to test. There are
              large minimum orders required, I think about 650 sheets. I was considering
              adding suitable papers to my marbling supply line at a discount from the
              art stores, papers I would stock and test constantly and know worked, and
              could keep on top of the rediculous ruination of one good paper after
              another due to the current buffering practice. The papers were so good and
              so very long life before, I find this to be a politically correct selling
              point, and frankly the masses have no clue what it means. There is a place
              for is if desired for sure, but nowadays finding a non buffered paper (many
              of these were also acid neutral by the way so why bother) is near
              impossible.

              I was also speaking to one mill about creating a paper ideal for marbling
              and marketing it as such. One smaller mill is willing to try this if I
              would be willing to test it for them....the catch is the minumum order is
              about 40,000 sheets. I can currently store half of that, the investment
              high, but would be worth its weight in gold to be able to have some good
              reliable paper though.

              Sorry to rant on about this but even some of the manufacturers I have
              spoken to find this buffering silly, but the masses want it because they
              have been fed an idea they have no clue about,and they will lose sales
              unless they do this. It is really a problem.

              Anyway....papers I know work, are the Ingres, Canson...though it is also
              usually heavy, Strathmore Charcoal. I can get my newly buffered Classic
              Linen to work fairly well by using 1 1/2 TBS alum to a cup of hot water,
              but this must be bought in cartons of at least 1000 sheets and I don't
              recomment it anymore anyway. Before anyone faints over the huge amount of
              alum, remember that the buffering is still there counteracting most of the
              alum. I don't know if this works on other buffered papers and frankly am so
              fed up I don't want to try ordering and testing other bad papers. And I
              should mention that the tests are all done with my own paints, I don't have
              time to test how others work.....but any of you who use other paints I
              would really love to hear how they work on what papers. That could be a
              lively discussion here as well.

              Good luck,
              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com


              Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              >
              Hello marblers, I have been lurking for a while and have decided to ask you

              all a question that has been nagging at me for years. I work exclusively
              with Rising Stonehenge - a heavy printmaking paper. I need to start doing
              some marbling on a lighter weight paper. What is your favorite? Any quirks
              I
              should know about? Where do you order from - in the USA if possible. I
              appreciate in advance any information you would be willing to share with
              me.
              Thanks, Susanne<
            • Laura Sims
              Dear Gretchen, You can use air brush colors with Golden GAC 900 fabric medium. Once the print is dry it will need to be heat set by ironing on the reverse
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 9, 2005
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                Dear Gretchen,

                You can use air brush colors with Golden GAC 900
                fabric medium. Once the print is dry it will need to
                be heat set by ironing on the reverse side. You may
                find that some of the air brush (ex. phthalo blue) get
                tiny holes in the paint membrane once it spreads to a
                full circle. If you want large stones instead of a
                manipulated pattern this can be a problem. Add some
                GAC 100 to strengthen it. Golden's line of Fluid
                Acrylics also work well. You also want to get some
                Golden Flow Release for a surfactant. The GAC 900
                aids in spreading most colors nicely, but if you want
                to use iridescents or some colors like dioxazine
                purple you will want to add a couple of drops of flow
                release to your mixture. Golden has a wonderful
                folder of information that they will send you about
                their paint. Ask for their marbling instruction as
                well.

                Best,
                Laura Sims
                Indigo Stone Studio

                --- gretchen vansant
                <vansantdesigns@...> wrote:
                > Hello to all....Well I'm fine tuning my fabric
                > marbling,so I'm tring new paints. Golden paints like
                > many of you paper marblers use.I was told to use
                > the air brush colors (unfortunately I only said I
                > was marbling ,not fabric marbling at the store )when
                > I got home I knowticed the instuctions said " not
                > for use on clothes" augh ...So what kind of "golden
                > paints" do I use for fabric (using methol cel bath)?
                > Is there a heatset for this product? and info would
                > be helpful. gretchen
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >




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              • irisnevins
                when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay
                Message 7 of 22 , May 12, 2005
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                  when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay them on a slanted board in a big sink and you can just gently pour water over them. Also most American made papers nowadays don't hold the paints as well if at all.

                  iris nevins
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                  To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:27 PM
                  Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                  Hello Everyone, Well I somewhat mastered fabric marbling, but I've been doing some paper (as you know Iris !). So I ask you paper marbler's ,do you slide your paper off the edge of the vat to squeegee" off the size? or are you just lifting and gently rinsing, till size is off? I've gotten some smearing when rinsing off the size from the paper. I don't want to rinse to much which smears the paint,but I feel its still slippery. Does it matter if there's alittle size left on? Its trial and error here ...I don't want to spoil to many papers.Any thoughts are appreciated Thanks Gretchen



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                • gretchen vansant
                  Iris ,I m purposely using the nature text,on your recomendation! So lets see! Thanks! Gretchen irisnevins wrote:when I use my own
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 12, 2005
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                    Iris ,I'm purposely using the nature text,on your recomendation! So lets see! Thanks! Gretchen

                    irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay them on a slanted board in a big sink and you can just gently pour water over them. Also most American made papers nowadays don't hold the paints as well if at all.

                    iris nevins
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                    To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:27 PM
                    Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                    Hello Everyone, Well I somewhat mastered fabric marbling, but I've been doing some paper (as you know Iris !). So I ask you paper marbler's ,do you slide your paper off the edge of the vat to squeegee" off the size? or are you just lifting and gently rinsing, till size is off? I've gotten some smearing when rinsing off the size from the paper. I don't want to rinse to much which smears the paint,but I feel its still slippery. Does it matter if there's alittle size left on? Its trial and error here ...I don't want to spoil to many papers.Any thoughts are appreciated Thanks Gretchen



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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • irisnevins
                    Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 16, 2005
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                      Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?

                      Iris NEvins

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                      Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                      Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints, If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time energy and supplies! Gretchen


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                    • gretchen vansant
                      I m useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really think
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 16, 2005
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                        I'm useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really think its the calcium ,and the temp of the room. I should get some "testing tape?" to test the water ,or the size. Whats the proper Number for alkalitity? I am a methol celulose user. thanks for any help gretchen

                        irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?

                        Iris NEvins

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                        Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                        Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints, If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time energy and supplies! Gretchen


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                      • Gail MacKenzie
                        ... Yes, Gretchen, I think that Calgon has a product that will help. First, what paints and type of methyl cel are you using? It¹s hard to test the Ph of
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                          > I'm useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle
                          > , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really
                          > think its the calcium ,and the temp of the room. I should get some "testing
                          > tape?" to test the water ,or the size. Whats the proper Number for alkalitity?
                          > I am a methol celulose user. thanks for any help gretchen
                          >
                          > irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Gretchen....ya think maybe they
                          > changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems
                          > with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe
                          > you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?
                          >
                          > Iris NEvins
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                          > Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)
                          >
                          >
                          > Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm
                          > doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna
                          > try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints,
                          > If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water
                          > IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time
                          > energy and supplies! Gretchen
                          >
                          >
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                          Yes, Gretchen, I think that Calgon has a product that will help. First,
                          what paints and type of methyl cel are you using? It¹s hard to test the Ph
                          of the paints and I have yet to find a company that will tell me the Ph of
                          their products other than Ruppert, Gibbon and Spider in Northern CA...but,
                          they do have an 800 number.

                          Anyhow, the Calgon product is available by mail through their internet site.
                          It is the powdered form that comes in a box. I used to mix 4 gallons of
                          (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                          and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It¹s the
                          most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                          10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7 and the temperature of
                          everything above 65degrees. Iris and I had an interesting discussion once,
                          about how different our ideal conditions for marbling were!! Good luck
                          again. And to Iris...I can¹t wait to order the new CD!!


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • carylhanc@aol.com
                          ... Hi! This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                            In a message dated 11/17/05 10:54:13 AM, gailmackenzi@... writes:


                            > I used to mix 4 gallons of
                            > (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                            > and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It〓s the
                            > most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                            > 10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7
                            >

                            Hi!
                            This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package
                            of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from 1
                            tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon of water to dissolve the methylcel, which raises the pH
                            significantly - anywhere from 8 to 10+. Some instructions, then have you lower
                            the pH back to a more neutral pH by adding vinegar.

                            There must be many types/formulations of methylcel....
                            Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Gail MacKenzie
                            ... Opps!! you¹re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                              >
                              > In a message dated 11/17/05 10:54:13 AM, gailmackenzi@... writes:
                              >
                              >
                              >> > I used to mix 4 gallons of
                              >> > (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                              >> > and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It?s the
                              >> > most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                              >> > 10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7
                              >> >
                              >
                              > Hi!
                              > This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package
                              > of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from 1
                              > tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon of water to dissolve the methylcel, which raises the pH
                              > significantly - anywhere from 8 to 10+. Some instructions, then have you
                              > lower
                              > the pH back to a more neutral pH by adding vinegar.
                              >
                              > There must be many types/formulations of methylcel....
                              > Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              Opps!! you¹re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to
                              rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                              water. You have to raise the PH to get the methyl cel to stay in
                              suspension. There are at least a dozen different kinds of methyl
                              cel....from ice cream and instant pudding thickeners to making the water at
                              water slides more slippery!!


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • carylhanc@aol.com
                              ... Hi! Whew! Thanks, Gail. I did not know that the calgon powder raised the pH, and figured I was missing something really important! Caryl Hancock in
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                In a message dated 11/17/05 4:16:29 PM, gailmackenzi@... writes:


                                > Opps!! you〓re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to
                                > rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                                > water. You have to raise the PH to get the methyl cel to stay in
                                > suspension.
                                >

                                Hi!
                                Whew! Thanks, Gail. I did not know that the calgon powder raised the pH,
                                and figured I was missing something really important!
                                Caryl Hancock in frigid Indianapolis


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • irisnevins
                                Lovely work!!! Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com ... From: Huzur Yolu To:
                                Message 15 of 22 , May 4, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Lovely work!!!
                                  Iris Nevins
                                  www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: '' Huzur Yolu ''<mailto:huzuryolu@...>
                                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:41 AM
                                  Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                                  Welcome to my Ebru Website.

                                  www.gulhaneebru.wordpress.com<http://www.gulhaneebru.wordpress.com/>



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