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Re: [Marbling] (unknown)

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  • J Dolphin
    I Want to come--sure hope it will pan out that way! Jill ... From: Laura Sims To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:05 PM Subject:
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 7, 2001
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      I Want to come--sure hope it will pan out that way!
      Jill
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:05 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)

      Hello Everyone,
       
      It has been pretty quiet lately, I wish each of you well.  Here's the 6 million dollar question...Are you planning to come to the Gathering?  Do you have specific questions that need answering?  Is there information that you would like to see on the community site?
       
      If it is an individual question you can contact me at indigostone@..., otherwise please post it.
       
      It is getting very exciting as it comes together.  One of the neat things that we are going to have is a Research and Development Fun Room, where you can try different paints.
       
      Happy Marbling, Laura


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    • Franklyn Smith
      How do you post questions? I have tried in the past with no success. Does anyone have information on the type of carageenhan that we are using successfully?
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 8, 2001
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        How do you post questions? I have tried in the past with no success.

        Does anyone have information on the type of carageenhan that we are using successfully? I've been using Colophon supplies, including the carageenhan, for twenty years, very happily. I had a supplier to the food industry (particularly ice cream) send me seven samples with descriptions of them but none worked. Some had to be mixed hot and some cold. The supplier was very interested in the results but since they were totally unsuccessful I wasn't too interested.

        Shelagh Smith,<bembo@...>

        J Dolphin wrote:

        I Want to come--sure hope it will pan out that way!Jill
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:05 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)
         Hello Everyone, It has been pretty quiet lately, I wish each of you well.  Here's the 6 million dollar question...Are you planning to come to the Gathering?  Do you have specific questions that need answering?  Is there information that you would like to see on the community site? If it is an individual question you can contact me at indigostone@..., otherwise please post it. It is getting very exciting as it comes together.  One of the neat things that we are going to have is a Research and Development Fun Room, where you can try different paints. Happy Marbling, Laura



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      • J Dolphin
        Actually, you have successfully posted your questions! Please note that the list is fairly large, and some will only be occasional readers, some taking a
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 8, 2001
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          Actually, you have successfully posted your questions! Please note that the list is fairly large, and some will only be occasional readers, some taking a digest form and reading every few days or so. Of answers, scour the archives/past posts. And no doubt, someone here might be answering or making suggestions to help you along.
              Now I am curious--this food grade substance you used--perhaps you could elaborate and tell us how the samples didn't work.
          Jill
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 3:51 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] (unknown)

          How do you post questions? I have tried in the past with no success.

          Does anyone have information on the type of carageenhan that we are using successfully? I've been using Colophon supplies, including the carageenhan, for twenty years, very happily. I had a supplier to the food industry (particularly ice cream) send me seven samples with descriptions of them but none worked. Some had to be mixed hot and some cold. The supplier was very interested in the results but since they were totally unsuccessful I wasn't too interested.

          Shelagh Smith,<bembo@...>

        • irisnevins
          The type marblers use is Viscarin GP209, non-food grade. Iris Nevins
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 8, 2001
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            The type marblers use is Viscarin GP209, non-food grade.
            Iris Nevins
          • James M Mahoney
            Laura, So great to see you at the Southern Highlands show. Yes, I will be at the Gathering - just waiting for registration time to come! Thanks for all the
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 8, 2001
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              Laura,

              So great to see you at the Southern Highlands show. Yes, I will be at
              the Gathering - just waiting for registration time to come!

              Thanks for all the information you send us about it and the things that
              will be happening.

              Monita
            • Laura Sims
              Yea, glad that you have it on your calendar! It was good to see you in Asheville, too. In January we will be working on a volunteer list. I ve not forgotten
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 9, 2001
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                Yea, glad that you have it on your calendar!  It was good to see you in Asheville, too.

                In January we will be working on a volunteer list.  I've not forgotten the offer.  So much to date has been getting presenters and coordinating with the Arrowmont staff. 

                Best, Laura 

                >From: James M Mahoney
                >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                >To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [Marbling] (unknown)
                >Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 02:26:35 -0500
                >
                >Laura,
                >
                >So great to see you at the Southern Highlands show. Yes, I will be at
                >the Gathering - just waiting for registration time to come!
                >
                >Thanks for all the information you send us about it and the things that
                >will be happening.
                >
                >Monita


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              • Franklyn Smith
                The substances were all various forms of carageenhan. As you know carageenhan is a family of seaweeds and not one specific one. They were sent me by Food
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 9, 2001
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                  The substances were all various forms of carageenhan. As you know carageenhan is a family of seaweeds and not one specific one.
                  They were sent me by Food Specialties in Georgetown, Ontario. Their names for them followed by the results where I recorde them are Benlacta S-100 [ lots of residue much foaming, dissolved in boiling water], Benstabi BF 44 [thickens with lots of boiling], Benlacta CM 750 [thickens with boiling], for all of these the colour doesn't move at all; Benlacta K1 16B, Benlacta L 101, Benlacta L80, Lambda CL 800 [dissolves, thickens a lot in cold water].

                  There were many different problems, mostly with the colour not expanding or contracting, but some sinking, not combing, forming tiny spots as with no oxgall etc. Of course I experimented with different quantities of oxgall to no effect.

                  I have never found a source for carageenhan in Canada which is ridiculous since much of it originates in Nova Scotia. Yehudah Miklaf when he was living in Toronto found a source but for a huge quantity.

                  Shelagh Smith

                  J Dolphin wrote:

                  Actually, you have successfully posted your questions! Please note that the list is fairly large, and some will only be occasional readers, some taking a digest form and reading every few days or so. Of answers, scour the archives/past posts. And no doubt, someone here might be answering or making suggestions to help you along.    Now I am curious--this food grade substance you used--perhaps you could elaborate and tell us how the samples didn't work.Jill
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 3:51 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] (unknown)
                   How do you post questions? I have tried in the past with no success.

                  Does anyone have information on the type of carageenhan that we are using successfully? I've been using Colophon supplies, including the carageenhan, for twenty years, very happily. I had a supplier to the food industry (particularly ice cream) send me seven samples with descriptions of them but none worked. Some had to be mixed hot and some cold. The supplier was very interested in the results but since they were totally unsuccessful I wasn't too interested.

                  Shelagh Smith,<bembo@...>



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                • Sonja Idema
                  Shelagh! I too live in Canada and found it impossible to find carrageenan here when I went on a search a few years ago...I too found a supplier for the food
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 9, 2001
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                    Shelagh!
                    I too live in Canada and found it impossible to find carrageenan here
                    when I went on a search a few years ago...I too found a supplier for the
                    food grade carrageenan in Ontario somewhere but it again did not thicken
                    the way I thought it should. I can't remember the name of the company
                    or the product off hand. I resorted to buying it through the US as
                    well, but had to buy a large quantity to make it worth my while. I
                    believe the carrageenan you're looking for is exactly what Iris had
                    mentioned and what I had been looking for as well...Viscarin GP209,
                    non-food grade.
                    Good luck on your search, and if you find of a good supplier here, let
                    me know too!

                    Sonja

                    Franklyn Smith wrote:

                    > The substances were all various forms of carageenhan. As you know
                    > carageenhan is a family of seaweeds and not one specific one.
                    > They were sent me by Food Specialties in Georgetown, Ontario. Their
                    > names for them followed by the results where I recorde them are
                    > Benlacta S-100 [ lots of residue much foaming, dissolved in boiling
                    > water], Benstabi BF 44 [thickens with lots of boiling], Benlacta CM
                    > 750 [thickens with boiling], for all of these the colour doesn't move
                    > at all; Benlacta K1 16B, Benlacta L 101, Benlacta L80, Lambda CL 800
                    > [dissolves, thickens a lot in cold water].
                    >
                    > There were many different problems, mostly with the colour not
                    > expanding or contracting, but some sinking, not combing, forming tiny
                    > spots as with no oxgall etc. Of course I experimented with different
                    > quantities of oxgall to no effect.
                    >
                    > I have never found a source for carageenhan in Canada which is
                    > ridiculous since much of it originates in Nova Scotia. Yehudah Miklaf
                    > when he was living in Toronto found a source but for a huge quantity.
                    >
                    > Shelagh Smith
                  • J Dolphin
                    Yes--a source IN Canada has eluded me as well.....Now there s a thought! WHAT IF us Canucks banded together--Found this stuff here--got it shipped to one of
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 9, 2001
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                      Yes--a source IN Canada has eluded me as well.....Now there's a thought! WHAT IF us Canucks banded together--Found this stuff here--got it shipped to one of us--subdivided it--and shipped it on again. Just a thought!
                      Jill

                      I have never found a source for carageenhan in Canada which is ridiculous since much of it originates in Nova Scotia. Yehudah Miklaf when he was living in Toronto found a source but for a huge quantity.

                      Shelagh Smith

                    • oguzhan tugrul
                      Dear Laura, how do I know if I m on the participant list in Arrowmont? What to do? I want to participate in marbled glass works. Wish you and the group A
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jan 1, 2002
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                        Dear Laura,
                        how do I know  if I'm on the participant list in Arrowmont? What to do?
                        I want to participate in 'marbled glass' works.
                        Wish you and the group  A HAPPY NEW YEAR.
                        cordially,
                        Oguzhan from ARTISTAnBUL
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:34 AM
                        Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)

                        Dear Fellow Marblers
                         
                        There was a request for an update on the International Marblers' Gathering 2002.  I wanted to give a tentative schedule and tentative list of prestenters.  A website should be up in November at Arrowmont.
                         
                        Wednesday night will open with a gallery exhibition of the presenters' and juried work.  Thursday will be an "Open Portfolio" Day for anyone who wants to participate...basically a buy, sell and trade day.  Friday and Saturday will be a mix of demonstrations and lectures.  Saturday night will end with a cook-out at a pavilion in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. 
                         
                        There will be spaces for approximately 190 participants.  On-line registration will be available.  We are planning to start registration at the end of February.
                         
                        We are very excited about the list of presenters so far.  It is a good mix of familiar faces from other gatherings, as well as new faces.  Historical techniques and innovative processes will be explored, as well as several interesting lectures.  Methods on paper, fabric, wood and clay are to be shared.  The names are listed in random order.
                         
                        Diane Maurer Mathison, Tom Leech, Iris Nevins, Marie Palowoda, Nedim Sonmez, Einen Miura, Tini Miura, Milena Hughes, James Currier, Jake Benson, Gail McKenzie, and Feridun Ozogoren.
                         
                        If you have not filled out Marie Palowoda's directory information please do so.  It is in the archives.  If you are on Marie's list you are on the mailing list for registration.
                         
                        Best to each of you,
                        Laura Sims, Conference Chair
                         


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                      • Laura Sims
                        Dear Oguzhan and Marbling Group, I wanted to give you a few updates. If you have filled out a directory form with Marie Palowoda (marie@ctos.com) you will
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jan 3, 2002
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                          Dear Oguzhan and Marbling Group,

                          I wanted to give you a few updates. If you have
                          filled out a directory form with Marie Palowoda
                          (marie@...) you will receive a brochure by mail.
                          The brochures should be sent out the end of Januray.
                          Also, the website will be up by the end of this month
                          at www.arrowmont.org.

                          Dates to remember: FEBRUARY 21 registration begins.
                          You may register online. YOu may want to register
                          early since it is being well publicized. Registration
                          and meals are combined for a cost of $350 plus room.
                          APRIL 25 slides are due for the juried exhibition. A
                          prospectus will be in the brochure and on the website.

                          Best Regards, Laura

                          --- oguzhan tugrul <uygur13@...> wrote:
                          > Dear Laura,
                          > how do I know if I'm on the participant list in
                          > Arrowmont? What to do?
                          > I want to participate in 'marbled glass' works.
                          > Wish you and the group A HAPPY NEW YEAR.
                          > cordially,
                          > Oguzhan from ARTISTAnBUL
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Laura Sims
                          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          > Cc: jemiljan@...
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:34 AM
                          > Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Fellow Marblers
                          >
                          > There was a request for an update on the
                          > International Marblers' Gathering 2002. I wanted to
                          > give a tentative schedule and tentative list of
                          > prestenters. A website should be up in November at
                          > Arrowmont.
                          >
                          > Wednesday night will open with a gallery
                          > exhibition of the presenters' and juried work.
                          > Thursday will be an "Open Portfolio" Day for anyone
                          > who wants to participate...basically a buy, sell and
                          > trade day. Friday and Saturday will be a mix of
                          > demonstrations and lectures. Saturday night will
                          > end with a cook-out at a pavilion in the Great Smoky
                          > Mountain National Park.
                          >
                          > There will be spaces for approximately 190
                          > participants. On-line registration will be
                          > available. We are planning to start registration at
                          > the end of February.
                          >
                          > We are very excited about the list of presenters
                          > so far. It is a good mix of familiar faces from
                          > other gatherings, as well as new faces. Historical
                          > techniques and innovative processes will be
                          > explored, as well as several interesting lectures.
                          > Methods on paper, fabric, wood and clay are to be
                          > shared. The names are listed in random order.
                          >
                          > Diane Maurer Mathison, Tom Leech, Iris Nevins,
                          > Marie Palowoda, Nedim Sonmez, Einen Miura, Tini
                          > Miura, Milena Hughes, James Currier, Jake Benson,
                          > Gail McKenzie, and Feridun Ozogoren.
                          >
                          > If you have not filled out Marie Palowoda's
                          > directory information please do so. It is in the
                          > archives. If you are on Marie's list you are on the
                          > mailing list for registration.
                          >
                          > Best to each of you,
                          > Laura Sims, Conference Chair
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
                        • irisnevins
                          Hi Susanne.....I am working on an article for the Marbling Journal on papers (Marie....I PROMISE IT SOON, should be another week or two of testing a few more
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 15, 2003
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                            Hi Susanne.....I am working on an article for the Marbling Journal on
                            papers (Marie....I PROMISE IT SOON, should be another week or two of
                            testing a few more papers) I will post my findings ahead on this group. I
                            am testing a lot of papers right now, and sadly most don't work, due to
                            calcium carbonate buffering.

                            The ones I like best right now and will likely choose as my standby papers
                            are Hahnemuele Ingres for a textured and Permalin for a smooth paper. The
                            Ingres is in big art stores but expensive. Permalin is in NYC at
                            212-768-7500. You can request swatch books and sheets to test. There are
                            large minimum orders required, I think about 650 sheets. I was considering
                            adding suitable papers to my marbling supply line at a discount from the
                            art stores, papers I would stock and test constantly and know worked, and
                            could keep on top of the rediculous ruination of one good paper after
                            another due to the current buffering practice. The papers were so good and
                            so very long life before, I find this to be a politically correct selling
                            point, and frankly the masses have no clue what it means. There is a place
                            for is if desired for sure, but nowadays finding a non buffered paper (many
                            of these were also acid neutral by the way so why bother) is near
                            impossible.

                            I was also speaking to one mill about creating a paper ideal for marbling
                            and marketing it as such. One smaller mill is willing to try this if I
                            would be willing to test it for them....the catch is the minumum order is
                            about 40,000 sheets. I can currently store half of that, the investment
                            high, but would be worth its weight in gold to be able to have some good
                            reliable paper though.

                            Sorry to rant on about this but even some of the manufacturers I have
                            spoken to find this buffering silly, but the masses want it because they
                            have been fed an idea they have no clue about,and they will lose sales
                            unless they do this. It is really a problem.

                            Anyway....papers I know work, are the Ingres, Canson...though it is also
                            usually heavy, Strathmore Charcoal. I can get my newly buffered Classic
                            Linen to work fairly well by using 1 1/2 TBS alum to a cup of hot water,
                            but this must be bought in cartons of at least 1000 sheets and I don't
                            recomment it anymore anyway. Before anyone faints over the huge amount of
                            alum, remember that the buffering is still there counteracting most of the
                            alum. I don't know if this works on other buffered papers and frankly am so
                            fed up I don't want to try ordering and testing other bad papers. And I
                            should mention that the tests are all done with my own paints, I don't have
                            time to test how others work.....but any of you who use other paints I
                            would really love to hear how they work on what papers. That could be a
                            lively discussion here as well.

                            Good luck,
                            Iris Nevins
                            www.marblingpaper.com


                            Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            Hello marblers, I have been lurking for a while and have decided to ask you

                            all a question that has been nagging at me for years. I work exclusively
                            with Rising Stonehenge - a heavy printmaking paper. I need to start doing
                            some marbling on a lighter weight paper. What is your favorite? Any quirks
                            I
                            should know about? Where do you order from - in the USA if possible. I
                            appreciate in advance any information you would be willing to share with
                            me.
                            Thanks, Susanne<
                          • Laura Sims
                            Dear Gretchen, You can use air brush colors with Golden GAC 900 fabric medium. Once the print is dry it will need to be heat set by ironing on the reverse
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 9, 2005
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                              Dear Gretchen,

                              You can use air brush colors with Golden GAC 900
                              fabric medium. Once the print is dry it will need to
                              be heat set by ironing on the reverse side. You may
                              find that some of the air brush (ex. phthalo blue) get
                              tiny holes in the paint membrane once it spreads to a
                              full circle. If you want large stones instead of a
                              manipulated pattern this can be a problem. Add some
                              GAC 100 to strengthen it. Golden's line of Fluid
                              Acrylics also work well. You also want to get some
                              Golden Flow Release for a surfactant. The GAC 900
                              aids in spreading most colors nicely, but if you want
                              to use iridescents or some colors like dioxazine
                              purple you will want to add a couple of drops of flow
                              release to your mixture. Golden has a wonderful
                              folder of information that they will send you about
                              their paint. Ask for their marbling instruction as
                              well.

                              Best,
                              Laura Sims
                              Indigo Stone Studio

                              --- gretchen vansant
                              <vansantdesigns@...> wrote:
                              > Hello to all....Well I'm fine tuning my fabric
                              > marbling,so I'm tring new paints. Golden paints like
                              > many of you paper marblers use.I was told to use
                              > the air brush colors (unfortunately I only said I
                              > was marbling ,not fabric marbling at the store )when
                              > I got home I knowticed the instuctions said " not
                              > for use on clothes" augh ...So what kind of "golden
                              > paints" do I use for fabric (using methol cel bath)?
                              > Is there a heatset for this product? and info would
                              > be helpful. gretchen
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >




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                            • irisnevins
                              when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay
                              Message 14 of 22 , May 12 6:32 PM
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                                when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay them on a slanted board in a big sink and you can just gently pour water over them. Also most American made papers nowadays don't hold the paints as well if at all.

                                iris nevins
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                                To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:27 PM
                                Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                                Hello Everyone, Well I somewhat mastered fabric marbling, but I've been doing some paper (as you know Iris !). So I ask you paper marbler's ,do you slide your paper off the edge of the vat to squeegee" off the size? or are you just lifting and gently rinsing, till size is off? I've gotten some smearing when rinsing off the size from the paper. I don't want to rinse to much which smears the paint,but I feel its still slippery. Does it matter if there's alittle size left on? Its trial and error here ...I don't want to spoil to many papers.Any thoughts are appreciated Thanks Gretchen



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                              • gretchen vansant
                                Iris ,I m purposely using the nature text,on your recomendation! So lets see! Thanks! Gretchen irisnevins wrote:when I use my own
                                Message 15 of 22 , May 12 7:10 PM
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                                  Iris ,I'm purposely using the nature text,on your recomendation! So lets see! Thanks! Gretchen

                                  irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay them on a slanted board in a big sink and you can just gently pour water over them. Also most American made papers nowadays don't hold the paints as well if at all.

                                  iris nevins
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                                  To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:27 PM
                                  Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                                  Hello Everyone, Well I somewhat mastered fabric marbling, but I've been doing some paper (as you know Iris !). So I ask you paper marbler's ,do you slide your paper off the edge of the vat to squeegee" off the size? or are you just lifting and gently rinsing, till size is off? I've gotten some smearing when rinsing off the size from the paper. I don't want to rinse to much which smears the paint,but I feel its still slippery. Does it matter if there's alittle size left on? Its trial and error here ...I don't want to spoil to many papers.Any thoughts are appreciated Thanks Gretchen



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                                • irisnevins
                                  Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 16, 2005
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                                    Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?

                                    Iris NEvins

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                                    Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                                    Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints, If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time energy and supplies! Gretchen


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                                  • gretchen vansant
                                    I m useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really think
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Nov 16, 2005
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                                      I'm useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really think its the calcium ,and the temp of the room. I should get some "testing tape?" to test the water ,or the size. Whats the proper Number for alkalitity? I am a methol celulose user. thanks for any help gretchen

                                      irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?

                                      Iris NEvins

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                                      Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                                      Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints, If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time energy and supplies! Gretchen


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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Gail MacKenzie
                                      ... Yes, Gretchen, I think that Calgon has a product that will help. First, what paints and type of methyl cel are you using? It¹s hard to test the Ph of
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                                        > I'm useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle
                                        > , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really
                                        > think its the calcium ,and the temp of the room. I should get some "testing
                                        > tape?" to test the water ,or the size. Whats the proper Number for alkalitity?
                                        > I am a methol celulose user. thanks for any help gretchen
                                        >
                                        > irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Gretchen....ya think maybe they
                                        > changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems
                                        > with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe
                                        > you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?
                                        >
                                        > Iris NEvins
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                                        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                                        > Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm
                                        > doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna
                                        > try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints,
                                        > If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water
                                        > IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time
                                        > energy and supplies! Gretchen
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        Yes, Gretchen, I think that Calgon has a product that will help. First,
                                        what paints and type of methyl cel are you using? It¹s hard to test the Ph
                                        of the paints and I have yet to find a company that will tell me the Ph of
                                        their products other than Ruppert, Gibbon and Spider in Northern CA...but,
                                        they do have an 800 number.

                                        Anyhow, the Calgon product is available by mail through their internet site.
                                        It is the powdered form that comes in a box. I used to mix 4 gallons of
                                        (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                                        and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It¹s the
                                        most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                                        10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7 and the temperature of
                                        everything above 65degrees. Iris and I had an interesting discussion once,
                                        about how different our ideal conditions for marbling were!! Good luck
                                        again. And to Iris...I can¹t wait to order the new CD!!


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • carylhanc@aol.com
                                        ... Hi! This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                                          In a message dated 11/17/05 10:54:13 AM, gailmackenzi@... writes:


                                          > I used to mix 4 gallons of
                                          > (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                                          > and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It〓s the
                                          > most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                                          > 10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7
                                          >

                                          Hi!
                                          This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package
                                          of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from 1
                                          tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon of water to dissolve the methylcel, which raises the pH
                                          significantly - anywhere from 8 to 10+. Some instructions, then have you lower
                                          the pH back to a more neutral pH by adding vinegar.

                                          There must be many types/formulations of methylcel....
                                          Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Gail MacKenzie
                                          ... Opps!! you¹re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                                            >
                                            > In a message dated 11/17/05 10:54:13 AM, gailmackenzi@... writes:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >> > I used to mix 4 gallons of
                                            >> > (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                                            >> > and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It?s the
                                            >> > most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                                            >> > 10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7
                                            >> >
                                            >
                                            > Hi!
                                            > This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package
                                            > of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from 1
                                            > tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon of water to dissolve the methylcel, which raises the pH
                                            > significantly - anywhere from 8 to 10+. Some instructions, then have you
                                            > lower
                                            > the pH back to a more neutral pH by adding vinegar.
                                            >
                                            > There must be many types/formulations of methylcel....
                                            > Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
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                                            Opps!! you¹re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to
                                            rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                                            water. You have to raise the PH to get the methyl cel to stay in
                                            suspension. There are at least a dozen different kinds of methyl
                                            cel....from ice cream and instant pudding thickeners to making the water at
                                            water slides more slippery!!


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • carylhanc@aol.com
                                            ... Hi! Whew! Thanks, Gail. I did not know that the calgon powder raised the pH, and figured I was missing something really important! Caryl Hancock in
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                                              In a message dated 11/17/05 4:16:29 PM, gailmackenzi@... writes:


                                              > Opps!! you〓re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to
                                              > rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                                              > water. You have to raise the PH to get the methyl cel to stay in
                                              > suspension.
                                              >

                                              Hi!
                                              Whew! Thanks, Gail. I did not know that the calgon powder raised the pH,
                                              and figured I was missing something really important!
                                              Caryl Hancock in frigid Indianapolis


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                                            • irisnevins
                                              Lovely work!!! Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com ... From: Huzur Yolu To:
                                              Message 22 of 22 , May 4 6:03 AM
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                                                Lovely work!!!
                                                Iris Nevins
                                                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: '' Huzur Yolu ''<mailto:huzuryolu@...>
                                                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:41 AM
                                                Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                                                Welcome to my Ebru Website.

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