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Nice red color for marbling

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  • Valerie Lynch
    I have been marbling for about a year. I have been using Pro Chem acrylics and for the most part I like them. However.....they decided to discontinue their
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 3, 2014
      I have been marbling for about a year. I have been using Pro Chem acrylics and for the most part I like them. However.....they decided to discontinue their fire red color, which was the only color in their line that was close to a real red color. Their other colors came out pink. I have literally tried a dozen other "red" colors from Golden Fluid, Jacquard, Pebeo.....you name it I have probably bought it. I have ordered from the UK a vermillion red from the Pebeo Marbling color line which is not available in the USA and have ordered the Golden High Flow red.

      The problem I have with these other colors is that they spread too much (the methyl cell is nice and thick) and are pink. Not even close to a red. If these two companies don't work out for a red color, does anyone have a suggestion for a red color. Heck, I would even pay for one of you marbling geniuses to make it for me and I would pay you!

      Looking forward to your responses.

      Valerie
    • Karen Ruane
      You might try experimenting with mixing colors to deepen your red. I ve had success mixing in a touch of black or indigo to deepen the red so that when it
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 3, 2014
        You might try experimenting with mixing colors to deepen your red. I've had success mixing in a touch of black or indigo to deepen the red so that when it spreads it stay a true red. I've done this with Golden Fluid Acrylics with good results. 

        Karen

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Sep 3, 2014, at 6:42 AM, "Valerie Lynch valanne000@... [Marbling]" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

         

        I have been marbling for about a year. I have been using Pro Chem acrylics and for the most part I like them. However.....they decided to discontinue their fire red color, which was the only color in their line that was close to a real red color. Their other colors came out pink. I have literally tried a dozen other "red" colors from Golden Fluid, Jacquard, Pebeo.....you name it I have probably bought it. I have ordered from the UK a vermillion red from the Pebeo Marbling color line which is not available in the USA and have ordered the Golden High Flow red.

        The problem I have with these other colors is that they spread too much (the methyl cell is nice and thick) and are pink. Not even close to a red. If these two companies don't work out for a red color, does anyone have a suggestion for a red color. Heck, I would even pay for one of you marbling geniuses to make it for me and I would pay you!

        Looking forward to your responses.

        Valerie

      • irisnevins
        Valerie.... in my long struggle with paintmaking and pigments, I have found that the vermillions I have tried, the pigment itself seemed to have properties
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 3, 2014
          Valerie.... in my long struggle with paintmaking and pigments, I have found that the vermillions I have tried, the pigment itself seemed to have properties that made it spread without and dispersant. It could be the makes of vermillion I tried. I gave up on it, not liking the sort of orange shade it had. I make watercolor paints and use cadmium red only. As for acrylics, I think people overlook some very decent but cheap brands of paint, I guess being so cheap people think they won't work. I like and use, when I do fabric, Ceramcoat. Folk Craft (Or it may be Folk Art! I forget right now), the cheap stuff, at A.C. Moore, Michaels etc. I think the small bottles are 88 cents! I have used their red successfully for decades. They have never faded or degraded. They do spread a lot, as most acrylics will, and may need a teeny bit of water to thin them....but not too much. Enough to drop from a brush. They will seem paler maybe than Golden or others, however, just keep layering them for more intensity....yet don't over do it and make them sink either. Different brands work differently, you have to test them and be patient. I would always put the red down first. It was called "RED"....they do not specify what pigment. I have no clue. It either worked or didn't for me...that was the only criteria. When I was more active in marbling fabric, if I found a bottle that worked, I would check the lot # and buy all I could of it. Sometimes it changes from batch to batch.... likely due to someone adding more dispersant in that batch. It does not take much to ruin it for marbling.

          All red acrylic (and watercolor) in my experience will, if put down first, spread and go pink. The acrylic base itself will make them spread more than watercolors. The big "IF" is whether another brand will be compatible with what you are using. People have this idea that acrylic formulas from company to company are the same and interchangeable, they usually are not. If not, then get a basic red, yellow, blue, black and white, and see if these work for you, in order to get a red.

          Another trick... this sounds counter intuitive....but add WATER.... it will help tame down the spreading. Yes, you will get smaller droplets, so just put down more. I have found this often helps. Not always, with all brands, but usually. I always like at the end of laying colors down, to add droplets of photo-flo (or gall if watercolor) water, to open up holes in the colors, then draw the pattern. It condenses the colors, red included, and allows the paper or fabric to shine through and makes a lovely contrast. Not too much, just a little, huge holes may make the colors sink or streak....again you need to experiment with amounts, maybe start with one drop of Photo-flo in a half cur of water. It may well need more if there is a lot of dispersant (added by the company....for smoothness, not with marbling in mind) in the paint itself.

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com



          On 09/03/14, Valerie Lynch valanne000@... [Marbling]<Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




          I have been marbling for about a year. I have been using Pro Chem acrylics and for the most part I like them. However.....they decided to discontinue their fire red color, which was the only color in their line that was close to a real red color. Their other colors came out pink. I have literally tried a dozen other "red" colors from Golden Fluid, Jacquard, Pebeo.....you name it I have probably bought it. I have ordered from the UK a vermillion red from the Pebeo Marbling color line which is not available in the USA and have ordered the Golden High Flow red.

          The problem I have with these other colors is that they spread too much (the methyl cell is nice and thick) and are pink. Not even close to a red. If these two companies don't work out for a red color, does anyone have a suggestion for a red color. Heck, I would even pay for one of you marbling geniuses to make it for me and I would pay you!

          Looking forward to your responses.

          Valerie
        • cherry_hill_drive
          Wonderful response, as always, Iris! Another thing, that i think you alluded to is to combine 2 or more reds from a paint line - more pigment. Adding some
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 3, 2014
            Wonderful response, as always, Iris!  Another thing, that i think you alluded to is to combine 2 or more reds from a paint line - more pigment.  Adding some dispersant to "smooth" them together may work.

            And another trick is to marble on red fabric or paper.  Opening up the design gives you the bright red.  This is a favorite trick of Cosette, a Texas production marbler who is known for her brilliant "bouquets" on bright colored silk satin - red, yellow, blue,turquoise, etc. It is the surfactant opening up small spots in the pattern before combing that makes this work.

            Good luck!
            Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis 


            -----Original Message-----
            From: irisnevins irisnevins@... [Marbling] <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Sep 3, 2014 11:24 am
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Nice red color for marbling

             
            Valerie.... in my long struggle with paintmaking and pigments, I have found that the vermillions I have tried, the pigment itself seemed to have properties that made it spread without and dispersant. It could be the makes of vermillion I tried. I gave up on it, not liking the sort of orange shade it had. I make watercolor paints and use cadmium red only. As for acrylics, I think people overlook some very decent but cheap brands of paint, I guess being so cheap people think they won't work. I like and use, when I do fabric, Ceramcoat. Folk Craft (Or it may be Folk Art! I forget right now), the cheap stuff, at A.C. Moore, Michaels etc. I think the small bottles are 88 cents! I have used their red successfully for decades. They have never faded or degraded. They do spread a lot, as most acrylics will, and may need a teeny bit of water to thin them....but not too much. Enough to drop from a brush. They will seem paler maybe than Golden or others, however, just keep l ayering them for more intensity....yet don't over do it and make them sink either. Different brands work differently, you have to test them and be patient. I would always put the red down first. It was called "RED"....they do not specify what pigment. I have no clue. It either worked or didn't for me...that was the only criteria. When I was more active in marbling fabric, if I found a bottle that worked, I would check the lot # and buy all I could of it. Sometimes it changes from batch to batch.... likely due to someone adding more dispersant in that batch. It does not take much to ruin it for marbling.

            All red acrylic (and watercolor) in my experience will, if put down first, spread and go pink. The acrylic base itself will make them spread more than watercolors. The big "IF" is whether another brand will be compatible with what you are using. People have this idea that acrylic formulas from company to company are the same and interchangeable, they usually are not. If not, then get a basic red, yellow, blue, black and white, and see if these work for you, in order to get a red.

            Another trick... this sounds counter intuitive....but add WATER.... it will help tame down the spreading. Yes, you will get smaller droplets, so just put down more. I have found this often helps. Not always, with all brands, but usually. I always like at the end of laying colors down, to add droplets of photo-flo (or gall if watercolor) water, to open up holes in the colors, then draw the pattern. It condenses the colors, red included, and allows the paper or fabric to shine through and makes a lovely contrast. Not too much, just a little, huge holes may make the colors sink or streak....again you need to experiment with amounts, maybe start with one drop of Photo-flo in a half cur of water. It may well need more if there is a lot of dispersant (added by the company....for smoothness, not with marbling in mind) in the paint itself.

            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com

            On 09/03/14, Valerie Lynch valanne000@... [Marbling]<Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



            I have been marbling for about a year. I have been using Pro Chem acrylics and for the most part I like them. However.....they decided to discontinue their fire red color, which was the only color in their line that was close to a real red color. Their other colors came out pink. I have literally tried a dozen other "red" colors from Golden Fluid, Jacquard, Pebeo.....you name it I have probably bought it. I have ordered from the UK a vermillion red from the Pebeo Marbling color line which is not available in the USA and have ordered the Golden High Flow red.

            The problem I have with these other colors is that they spread too much (the methyl cell is nice and thick) and are pink. Not even close to a red. If these two companies don't work out for a red color, does anyone have a suggestion for a red color. Heck, I would even pay for one of you marbling geniuses to make it for me and I would pay you!

            Looking forward to your responses.

            Valerie

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