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About to Give Up On Paint!

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  • Michelle Herren
    I m so frustrated I can t even go in my craft room. That s how frustrated I am. This all started when I decided that my paints were too translucent, and I
    Message 1 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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      I'm so frustrated I can't even go in my craft room.  That's how frustrated I am.

      This all started when I decided that my paints were too translucent, and I needed to make them brighter and more opaque.  So I bought some acrylic flow release, mixed it to a 7:1 water:flow ratio, and preceded to make ALL NEW PAINTS.  I used more of the tubed acrylic (Utrecht, recommended to me by Galen), about a 2" stream.  I then mixed it with one part distilled water and one part AFR.

      All my paints sank.  I was using a dropper to place the paint so I could sit down and not make a mess.  I tried using the broomstick brush.  The droplets were smaller, but they half spread and half sank and made terrible patterns.

      So I tried dumping out half of the paint mixture (which was the consistency of thick cream, I realize that was too thick) and added in nothing but the diluted AFR.  Some of the paints, like the yellows and the whites, started to spread.  But the blues, reads, greens, and purples still didn't spread and sank.

      I repeated this dump 75% out and fill up with AFR dilute three times, and none of my paints will spread on the surface.  I mean, I don't know how much more diluting I can do before just starting over again, and I don't think I have enough AFR to do all 30 of my 1 ounce paints again.

      I've even tried adding anywhere from 2-40 drops of Galen's Gall to one of my blues in an attempt to get it to float to no success.  The colors are all the consistency of almost water - not even skim milk anymore.  Should I have just added a drop or two of AFR straight from the bottle to the paint?

      Also, how do you get metallic colors to mix? I've never been able to get one to float no matter how little paint I've used.  I've tried liquitex ink and soft body paints for the metallics.

      If anyone could please guide me back to the path of success, I'd really appreaciate it.  I feel like just buying a bunch of Galen's marbling paints, but 1) I don't have any money to right now and 2) I have a whole drawer off tubed acrylics I bought for this specific purpose knowing that they will work.

      Michelle

      Save me from my frustration! :)

    • Deluwiel Xox
      oh Michelle - I m so sorry you re having such trouble! Not being able to stand there and really see what s going on it s hard to say. My only suggestion right
      Message 2 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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        oh Michelle - I'm so sorry you're having such trouble! Not being able to stand there and really see what's going on it's hard to say. My only suggestion right off the top of my head is to start with just a couple of colors trying different dilutions until you get those the way they need to be. That might give you a better guideline to know how to tackle the other colors.

        All I use is distilled water with Golden, Jacquard, the Spectralite colors, as well as the DecoArt So-Soft paints and mix to about the consistency of what I'd use for a wash to cover a canvas. I've had a number of the Jacquard airbrush colors from Dharma float nicely right out of the bottle. I don't use the AFR with my paints at all, just water. Obviously, make sure the paints are mixed really, really well. The only other thing that I can come up with off the top of my head is to check the thickness of your size. Maybe it's not the paints at all. If the size is too thick you might not get the spread though I'm not sure that the paint would sink in that case (anybody else confirm or deny?).

        Metallics can be very fussy. The Golden gold and silver are the two that I've found to work the very best. Jacquard airbrush metallics (they have metallic blue, red, and yellow that have some flecks of sparkle and are really pretty along with a couple of shades of gold, silver and copper) need some playing around with. Actually the copper I have never been able to get to float, even with the AFR.

        Not diluting the paint as much I don't think is going to make your colors any darker. As you know, the first couple of colors you put down will spread the most; the next layers will 'push' those colors a bit, compressing them and making them darker; the more paint you lay down the more vivid the colors will be and you'll get much brighter, crisper patterns.  (by the way: this is all based on my experience with fabric marbling).

        Good luck!

        Deb
      • D or Jer Guffey
        Michelle, I ve been marbling for over 30 years with acrylic tube paints (mainly Liquitex & Ultrecht) and have never added any flow release, or photo flow of
        Message 3 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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          Michelle,
           
          I've been marbling for over 30 years with acrylic tube paints (mainly Liquitex & Ultrecht) and have never added any flow release, or photo flow of any type. Just mix the tube paint with distilled water until you get the right consistency (about the consistency of half & half - a little thicker than milk). Thick paint will not make a darker color and will just sink. Temperature can also affect the spread of paints. You didn't mention what type of size you are using? I've only marbled on carragheenan which should be used in a room at least 60 degrees (I marble in my garage, and that is about as warm as I can get it). Make sure your size isn't too thick, that will also allow the colors to sink.
           
          That being said, not all paints react in the same manner. The paint industry keeps changing their formulas from year to year. A color that worked great one year, when purchased again doesn't. Some colors are "chasers" they push the other colors aside. In that case, put them down first and then add your other colors. Work with just 2 or 3 colors until you can get patterns you like. Stay away from metallics until you are comfortable with regular colors. For the most part they are pure trouble...mainly they tend to push all other colors aside.
           
          Before I start to marble, I use a Styrofoam meat tray with just a little bit of size in it. I drop the color on that size to see if it spreads or sinks. I keep adjusting the paint to make it spread before I ever put it the main marbling tray. That way I don't junk up the whole tank if something isn't working. If it is sinking, it usually is too thick (or the size is too cold). Try flicking the paint on with a popsicle stick and flicking your wrist. Try using an eyedropper and put the paint down one drop at a time.
           
          Don't forget to skim your surface prior to applying the paint - you need to break the surface tension to allow the colors to spread.
           
          Hope this helps, if only to get you to try again.
           
          d.guffey
           
           
           

          Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] About to Give Up On Paint!

           

          I'm so frustrated I can't even go in my craft room.  That's how frustrated I am.

          This all started when I decided that my paints were too translucent, and I needed to make them brighter and more opaque.  So I bought some acrylic flow release, mixed it to a 7:1 water:flow ratio, and preceded to make ALL NEW PAINTS.  I used more of the tubed acrylic (Utrecht, recommended to me by Galen), about a 2" stream.  I then mixed it with one part distilled water and one part AFR.

          All my paints sank.  I was using a dropper to place the paint so I could sit down and not make a mess.  I tried using the broomstick brush.  The droplets were smaller, but they half spread and half sank and made terrible patterns.

          So I tried dumping out half of the paint mixture (which was the consistency of thick cream, I realize that was too thick) and added in nothing but the diluted AFR.  Some of the paints, like the yellows and the whites, started to spread.  But the blues, reads, greens, and purples still didn't spread and sank.

          I repeated this dump 75% out and fill up with AFR dilute three times, and none of my paints will spread on the surface.  I mean, I don't know how much more diluting I can do before just starting over again, and I don't think I have enough AFR to do all 30 of my 1 ounce paints again.

          I've even tried adding anywhere from 2-40 drops of Galen's Gall to one of my blues in an attempt to get it to float to no success.  The colors are all the consistency of almost water - not even skim milk anymore.  Should I have just added a drop or two of AFR straight from the bottle to the paint?

          Also, how do you get metallic colors to mix? I've never been able to get one to float no matter how little paint I've used.  I've tried liquitex ink and soft body paints for the metallics.

          If anyone could please guide me back to the path of success, I'd really appreaciate it.  I feel like just buying a bunch of Galen's marbling paints, but 1) I don't have any money to right now and 2) I have a whole drawer off tubed acrylics I bought for this specific purpose knowing that they will work.

          Michelle

          Save me from my frustration! :)




          This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.


        • irisnevins
          I use plain old low brow Folk Art or Ceramcoat when I do acrylic for fabric. I can t say all the colors work, but I find a basic red, yellow blue, black and
          Message 4 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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            I use plain old low brow Folk Art or Ceramcoat when I do acrylic for fabric. I can't say all the colors work, but I find a basic red, yellow blue, black and white, and mix the rest of the colors from them. If they seem thick in the bottle I dilute with a little plain old hard tap water from my well, and I use squeeze bottles to apply paint. I use no dispersant usually, but find the order the paints like to be in that particular day. It can change. If I need to adjust any of the colors for spreading width I may use a drop of Photo-Flo in a color. I do this on a carrageenan size made with very hard tap water (I am NOT recommending Hard water, but just that it is simpler to use what one has. I actually find my water works better than distilled. I only use distilled when I make paints for sale, and I only make watercolors). The metallics from Ceramcoat or Folk Art (or is it Folk Craft...I am getting confused...the cheap stuff at the big craft stores anyway) have also worked for me quite well, I think the Folk Art brand was better. I am not big on metallics though so rarely use them.

            If your size is too thick, this too can make the paints sink... make sure is is not too thick. I don't mean to belittle the other brands out there, I am sure they are fine. I just started at this in 1978 when the choices were the cheap junk and Tube Liquitex pretty much. I didn't like the Liquitex as much as the cheaper brands. There were no additives or thinners for marbling with acrylics back then, I just adapted to whatever, and these paints worked pretty well, so I still use them, though I primarily do historic style papers and use "antique" style paints I make to get the old world look. I don't marble fabric with acrylic as much as in the past, but continue to use this cheap junky paint, which holds up quite well after over 30 years on the scarves. No fading whatsoever. You might want to get a few colors to test whether is it a paint problem or a size problem perhaps. I think they are about 88 cents a bottle if you have an A.C. Moore near you.

            Marbling can be very very frustrating!

            IrisNevins
            www.marblingpaper.com

            On 05/17/14, Deluwiel Xox deluwiel1209@... [Marbling]<Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





            oh Michelle - I'm so sorry you're having such trouble! Not being able to stand there and really see what's going on it's hard to say. My only suggestion right off the top of my head is to start with just a couple of colors trying different dilutions until you get those the way they need to be. That might give you a better guideline to know how to tackle the other colors.

            All I use is distilled water with Golden, Jacquard, the Spectralite colors, as well as the DecoArt So-Soft paints and mix to about the consistency of what I'd use for a wash to cover a canvas. I've had a number of the Jacquard airbrush colors from Dharma float nicely right out of the bottle. I don't use the AFR with my paints at all, just water. Obviously, make sure the paints are mixed really, really well. The only other thing that I can come up with off the top of my head is to check the thickness of your size. Maybe it's not the paints at all. If the size is too thick you might not get the spread though I'm not sure that the paint would sink in that case (anybody else confirm or deny?).

            Metallics can be very fussy. The Golden gold and silver are the two that I've found to work the very best. Jacquard airbrush metallics (they have metallic blue, red, and yellow that have some flecks of sparkle and are really pretty along with a couple of shades of gold, silver and copper) need some playing around with. Actually the copper I have never been able to get to float, even with the AFR.

            Not diluting the paint as much I don't think is going to make your colors any darker. As you know, the first couple of colors you put down will spread the most; the next layers will 'push' those colors a bit, compressing them and making them darker; the more paint you lay down the more vivid the colors will be and you'll get much brighter, crisper patterns. (by the way: this is all based on my experience with fabric marbling).

            Good luck!

            Deb
          • irisnevins
            Good pointers Delores.... We are of the same vintage it sounds like....we had none of these additives and it worked just fine. I rarely had to use the photo
            Message 5 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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              Good pointers Delores.... We are of the same vintage it sounds like....we had none of these additives and it worked just fine. I rarely had to use the photo flow, I think I have the original bottle still that I got about 1980! I have had to resort to it a few times.....due to, as you said the manufacturers changing the formulas. I also suspect they are not big on quality control as to how much dispersant they add (for acrylics usually a detergent of sorts) and one lot of paint will work and the next, from the same company, same color will be what you call a "chaser".

              I never even heard of marbling with distilled water when I started, in 1978, thus my hard water always worked, because I guess it didn't know it was not supposed to, LOL! I never told it, and yes it still works! I tried marbling with distilled, and also rain water I collected, and the hard water..and I mean seriously hard, won out each time. The only difference....if I am in a soft water area, I used to travel to teach a lot... like NYC, you need to use a little less size powder than in a hard water area. But it ends up all the same as far as my usage of it all.

              You think that's bad... if you have been marbling as log as I have Delores, and I think perhaps.... recall the days of boiling handfuls of dried seaweed to make the size? And trying to strain it? It never came out the same way twice. I very much appreciate the carrageenan powder you can whirl up in the blender. Way back then, well it was not far off from how it was done in the 1800s.

              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com


              On 05/17/14, 'D or Jer Guffey' dguff@... [Marbling]<Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




              Michelle,

              I've been marbling for over 30 years with acrylic tube paints (mainly Liquitex & Ultrecht) and have never added any flow release, or photo flow of any type. Just mix the tube paint with distilled water until you get the right consistency (about the consistency of half & half - a little thicker than milk). Thick paint will not make a darker color and will just sink. Temperature can also affect the spread of paints. You didn't mention what type of size you are using? I've only marbled on carragheenan which should be used in a room at least 60 degrees (I marble in my garage, and that is about as warm as I can get it). Make sure your size isn't too thick, that will also allow the colors to sink.

              That being said, not all paints react in the same manner. The paint industry keeps changing their formulas from year to year. A color that worked great one year, when purchased again doesn't. Some colors are "chasers" they push the other colors aside. In that case, put them down first and then add your other colors. Work with just 2 or 3 colors until you can get patterns you like. Stay away from metallics until you are comfortable with regular colors. For the most part they are pure trouble...mainly they tend to push all other colors aside.

              Before I start to marble, I use a Styrofoam meat tray with just a little bit of size in it. I drop the color on that size to see if it spreads or sinks. I keep adjusting the paint to make it spread before I ever put it the main marbling tray. That way I don't junk up the whole tank if something isn't working. If it is sinking, it usually is too thick (or the size is too cold). Try flicking the paint on with a popsicle stick and flicking your wrist. Try using an eyedropper and put the paint down one drop at a time.

              Don't forget to skim your surface prior to applying the paint - you need to break the surface tension to allow the colors to spread.

              Hope this helps, if only to get you to try again.

              d.guffey





              From: Michelle Herren herrenfam@... [Marbling]
              Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
              To: marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Marbling] About to Give Up On Paint!





              I'm so frustrated I can't even go in my craft room. That's how frustrated I am.

              This all started when I decided that my paints were too translucent, and I needed to make them brighter and more opaque. So I bought some acrylic flow release, mixed it to a 7:1 water:flow ratio, and preceded to make ALL NEW PAINTS. I used more of the tubed acrylic (Utrecht, recommended to me by Galen), about a 2" stream. I then mixed it with one part distilled water and one part AFR.

              All my paints sank. I was using a dropper to place the paint so I could sit down and not make a mess. I tried using the broomstick brush. The droplets were smaller, but they half spread and half sank and made terrible patterns.

              So I tried dumping out half of the paint mixture (which was the consistency of thick cream, I realize that was too thick) and added in nothing but the diluted AFR. Some of the paints, like the yellows and the whites, started to spread. But the blues, reads, greens, and purples still didn't spread and sank.

              I repeated this dump 75% out and fill up with AFR dilute three times, and none of my paints will spread on the surface. I mean, I don't know how much more diluting I can do before just starting over again, and I don't think I have enough AFR to do all 30 of my 1 ounce paints again.

              I've even tried adding anywhere from 2-40 drops of Galen's Gall to one of my blues in an attempt to get it to float to no success. The colors are all the consistency of almost water - not even skim milk anymore. Should I have just added a drop or two of AFR straight from the bottle to the paint?

              Also, how do you get metallic colors to mix? I've never been able to get one to float no matter how little paint I've used. I've tried liquitex ink and soft body paints for the metallics.

              If anyone could please guide me back to the path of success, I'd really appreaciate it. I feel like just buying a bunch of Galen's marbling paints, but 1) I don't have any money to right now and 2) I have a whole drawer off tubed acrylics I bought for this specific purpose knowing that they will work.

              Michelle

              Save me from my frustration! :)









              This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
            • Nancy Akerly
              Oh, Iris, I agree, boiling down the seaweed, then having to strain it, and even then the size was still brown! Love today s powdered carrageenan! I use my
              Message 6 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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                Oh, Iris, I agree, boiling down the seaweed, then having to strain it, and even then the size was still brown!  Love today's powdered carrageenan!  I use my hard well water also, with good results.  Still wish I could find an effective metallic paint, but even if I don't, all is well.

                Good luck, Michelle.  Keep fighting the good fight.  I highly recommend Galen's paint, not very expensive as a little goes a long way and very predictable, with gorgeous colors.  You don't even need to buy a large number, just the basic colors and then mix your own.  Don't give up - it's worth all the setbacks when it works!
                Warmly, 
                Nancy Akerly
                Sent from my iPad
                Liberty Grove Paper Arts

                On May 17, 2014, at 5:53 PM, "irisnevins irisnevins@... [Marbling]" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                 


                Good pointers Delores.... We are of the same vintage it sounds like....we had none of these additives and it worked just fine. I rarely had to use the photo flow, I think I have the original bottle still that I got about 1980! I have had to resort to it a few times.....due to, as you said the manufacturers changing the formulas. I also suspect they are not big on quality control as to how much dispersant they add (for acrylics usually a detergent of sorts) and one lot of paint will work and the next, from the same company, same color will be what you call a "chaser".

                I never even heard of marbling with distilled water when I started, in 1978, thus my hard water always worked, because I guess it didn't know it was not supposed to, LOL! I never told it, and yes it still works! I tried marbling with distilled, and also rain water I collected, and the hard water..and I mean seriously hard, won out each time. The only difference....if I am in a soft water area, I used to travel to teach a lot... like NYC, you need to use a little less size powder than in a hard water area. But it ends up all the same as far as my usage of it all.

                You think that's bad... if you have been marbling as log as I have Delores, and I think perhaps.... recall the days of boiling handfuls of dried seaweed to make the size? And trying to strain it? It never came out the same way twice. I very much appreciate the carrageenan powder you can whirl up in the blender. Way back then, well it was not far off from how it was done in the 1800s.

                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com

                On 05/17/14, 'D or Jer Guffey' dguff@... [Marbling]<Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



                Michelle,

                I've been marbling for over 30 years with acrylic tube paints (mainly Liquitex & Ultrecht) and have never added any flow release, or photo flow of any type. Just mix the tube paint with distilled water until you get the right consistency (about the consistency of half & half - a little thicker than milk). Thick paint will not make a darker color and will just sink. Temperature can also affect the spread of paints. You didn't mention what type of size you are using? I've only marbled on carragheenan which should be used in a room at least 60 degrees (I marble in my garage, and that is about as warm as I can get it). Make sure your size isn't too thick, that will also allow the colors to sink.

                That being said, not all paints react in the same manner. The paint industry keeps changing their formulas from year to year. A color that worked great one year, when purchased again doesn't. Some colors are "chasers" they push the other colors aside. In that case, put them down first and then add your other colors. Work with just 2 or 3 colors until you can get patterns you like. Stay away from metallics until you are comfortable with regular colors. For the most part they are pure trouble...mainly they tend to push all other colors aside.

                Before I start to marble, I use a Styrofoam meat tray with just a little bit of size in it. I drop the color on that size to see if it spreads or sinks. I keep adjusting the paint to make it spread before I ever put it the main marbling tray. That way I don't junk up the whole tank if something isn't working. If it is sinking, it usually is too thick (or the size is too cold). Try flicking the paint on with a popsicle stick and flicking your wrist. Try using an eyedropper and put the paint down one drop at a time.

                Don't forget to skim your surface prior to applying the paint - you need to break the surface tension to allow the colors to spread.

                Hope this helps, if only to get you to try again.

                d.guffey




                From: Michelle Herren herrenfam@... [Marbling]
                Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:42 AM
                To: marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Marbling] About to Give Up On Paint!

                I'm so frustrated I can't even go in my craft room. That's how frustrated I am.

                This all started when I decided that my paints were too translucent, and I needed to make them brighter and more opaque. So I bought some acrylic flow release, mixed it to a 7:1 water:flow ratio, and preceded to make ALL NEW PAINTS. I used more of the tubed acrylic (Utrecht, recommended to me by Galen), about a 2" stream. I then mixed it with one part distilled water and one part AFR.

                All my paints sank. I was using a dropper to place the paint so I could sit down and not make a mess. I tried using the broomstick brush. The droplets were smaller, but they half spread and half sank and made terrible patterns.

                So I tried dumping out half of the paint mixture (which was the consistency of thick cream, I realize that was too thick) and added in nothing but the diluted AFR. Some of the paints, like the yellows and the whites, started to spread. But the blues, reads, greens, and purples still didn't spread and sank.

                I repeated this dump 75% out and fill up with AFR dilute three times, and none of my paints will spread on the surface. I mean, I don't know how much more diluting I can do before just starting over again, and I don't think I have enough AFR to do all 30 of my 1 ounce paints again.

                I've even tried adding anywhere from 2-40 drops of Galen's Gall to one of my blues in an attempt to get it to float to no success. The colors are all the consistency of almost water - not even skim milk anymore. Should I have just added a drop or two of AFR straight from the bottle to the paint?

                Also, how do you get metallic colors to mix? I've never been able to get one to float no matter how little paint I've used. I've tried liquitex ink and soft body paints for the metallics.

                If anyone could please guide me back to the path of success, I'd really appreaciate it. I feel like just buying a bunch of Galen's marbling paints, but 1) I don't have any money to right now and 2) I have a whole drawer off tubed acrylics I bought for this specific purpose knowing that they will work.

                Michelle

                Save me from my frustration! :)

                This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

              • Michelle Herren
                Thank you everyone for your warm replies! Two things stick out to me as possible problems: my size is too thick or too cold. I generally use it right out of
                Message 7 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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                  Thank you everyone for your warm replies!

                  Two things stick out to me as possible problems: my size is too thick or too cold. I generally use it right out of the fridge. Guess I'll let it warm up from now on!  I make my carrageenan according to Galen Barry's recipe: 1 tbsp plus 1 tsp carrageenan per half gallon of water. I use distilled water to mix it. Perhaps I'll add some water to thin it out a bit. 

                  I think it might be a problem with size simply because I'm having problems with certain paints (like blues and purples) no matter how much I've tried diluting them after my second "batch" of paint that's giving me so much trouble. And so many of you say you don't use dispersant at all, or very little. And I'm using huge amounts of it with no discernible difference. 

                  Yes, I do skim before every print. I learned that the hard way when I was making paint the first time and kept testing the paint in the tank without skimming it for over an hour. When I went to go use the paint, it all sank!  It's been downhill for me ever since on the paint! (But then again, using it for over an hour meant it warmed up... So maybe that brings me back to the cold size)

                  Michelle

                  On May 17, 2014, at 12:26 PM, "Deluwiel Xox deluwiel1209@... [Marbling]" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                   


                  oh Michelle - I'm so sorry you're having such trouble! Not being able to stand there and really see what's going on it's hard to say. My only suggestion right off the top of my head is to start with just a couple of colors trying different dilutions until you get those the way they need to be. That might give you a better guideline to know how to tackle the other colors.

                  All I use is distilled water with Golden, Jacquard, the Spectralite colors, as well as the DecoArt So-Soft paints and mix to about the consistency of what I'd use for a wash to cover a canvas. I've had a number of the Jacquard airbrush colors from Dharma float nicely right out of the bottle. I don't use the AFR with my paints at all, just water. Obviously, make sure the paints are mixed really, really well. The only other thing that I can come up with off the top of my head is to check the thickness of your size. Maybe it's not the paints at all. If the size is too thick you might not get the spread though I'm not sure that the paint would sink in that case (anybody else confirm or deny?).

                  Metallics can be very fussy. The Golden gold and silver are the two that I've found to work the very best. Jacquard airbrush metallics (they have metallic blue, red, and yellow that have some flecks of sparkle and are really pretty along with a couple of shades of gold, silver and copper) need some playing around with. Actually the copper I have never been able to get to float, even with the AFR.

                  Not diluting the paint as much I don't think is going to make your colors any darker. As you know, the first couple of colors you put down will spread the most; the next layers will 'push' those colors a bit, compressing them and making them darker; the more paint you lay down the more vivid the colors will be and you'll get much brighter, crisper patterns.  (by the way: this is all based on my experience with fabric marbling).

                  Good luck!

                  Deb

                • D or Jer Guffey
                  Michele, Carragheenan and paint HAVE to be at room temperature...anything over 60 degrees. Of course in really hot weather you have problems as well, but 60 to
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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                    Michele,
                     
                    Carragheenan and paint HAVE to be at room temperature...anything over 60 degrees. Of course in really hot weather you have problems as well, but 60 to 75 degrees should be fine.
                     
                    d.guffey

                    Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 4:04 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] About to Give Up On Paint!

                     

                    Thank you everyone for your warm replies!

                    Two things stick out to me as possible problems: my size is too thick or too cold. I generally use it right out of the fridge. Guess I'll let it warm up from now on!  I make my carrageenan according to Galen Barry's recipe: 1 tbsp plus 1 tsp carrageenan per half gallon of water. I use distilled water to mix it. Perhaps I'll add some water to thin it out a bit. 

                    I think it might be a problem with size simply because I'm having problems with certain paints (like blues and purples) no matter how much I've tried diluting them after my second "batch" of paint that's giving me so much trouble. And so many of you say you don't use dispersant at all, or very little. And I'm using huge amounts of it with no discernible difference. 

                    Yes, I do skim before every print. I learned that the hard way when I was making paint the first time and kept! testing the paint in the tank without skimming it for over an hour. When I went to go use the paint, it all sank!  It's been downhill for me ever since on the paint! (But then again, using it for over an hour meant it warmed up... So maybe that brings me back to the cold size)

                    Michelle

                    On May 17, 2014, at 12:26 PM, "Deluwiel Xox deluwiel1209@... [Marbling]" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                     


                    oh Michelle - I'm so sorry you're having such trouble! Not being able to stand there and really see what's going on it's hard to say. My only suggestion right off the top of my head is to start with just a couple of colors trying different dilutions until you get those the way they need to be. That might give you a better guideline to know how to tackle the other colors.

                    All I use is distilled water with Golden, Jacquard, the Spectralite colors, as well as the DecoArt So-Soft paints and mix to about the consistency of what I'd use for a wash to cover a canvas. I've had a number of the Jacquard airbrush colors from Dharma float nicely right out of the bottle. I don't use the AFR with my paints at all, just water. Obviously, make sure the paints are mixed really, really well. The only other thing that I can come up with off the top of my head is to check the thickness of your size. Maybe it's not the paints at all. If the size is too thick you might not get the spread though I'm not sure that the paint would sink in that case (anybody else confirm or deny?).

                    Metallics can be very fussy. The Golden gold and silver are the two that I've found to work the very best. Jacquard airbrush metallics (they have metallic blue, red, and yellow that have some flecks of sparkle and are really pretty along with a couple of shades of gold, silver and copper) need some playing around with. Actually the copper I have never been able to get to float, even with the AFR.

                    Not diluting the paint as much I don't think is going to make your colors any darker. As you know, the first couple of colors you put down will spread the most; the next layers will 'push' those colors a bit, compressing them and making them darker; the more paint you lay down the more vivid the colors will be and you'll get much brighter, crisper patterns.  (by the way: this is all based on my experience with fabric marbling).

                    Good luck!

                    Deb




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                  • irisnevins
                    Could very well be because it is so cold! Also....while that measure must work for Galen, and he is a wonderful marbler, that would be too thick for me. I just
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 17, 2014
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                      Could very well be because it is so cold!
                      Also....while that measure must work for Galen, and he is a wonderful marbler, that would be too thick for me. I just use the TBS, per half gallon, though admittedly a little bit rounded, due to my hard water. I often end up thinning it further in the end. Better to make it a bit too thick, easier to thin it, than to make another thicker batch and have to wait.

                      IrisNevins
                      www,marblingpaper.com


                      On 05/17/14, 'D or Jer Guffey' dguff@... [Marbling]<Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




                      Michele,

                      Carragheenan and paint HAVE to be at room temperature...anything over 60 degrees. Of course in really hot weather you have problems as well, but 60 to 75 degrees should be fine.

                      d.guffey


                      From: Michelle Herren herrenfam@... [Marbling]
                      Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 4:04 PM
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Marbling] About to Give Up On Paint!





                      Thank you everyone for your warm replies!


                      Two things stick out to me as possible problems: my size is too thick or too cold. I generally use it right out of the fridge. Guess I'll let it warm up from now on! I make my carrageenan according to Galen Barry's recipe: 1 tbsp plus 1 tsp carrageenan per half gallon of water. I use distilled water to mix it. Perhaps I'll add some water to thin it out a bit.


                      I think it might be a problem with size simply because I'm having problems with certain paints (like blues and purples) no matter how much I've tried diluting them after my second "batch" of paint that's giving me so much trouble. And so many of you say you don't use dispersant at all, or very little. And I'm using huge amounts of it with no discernible difference.


                      Yes, I do skim before every print. I learned that the hard way when I was making paint the first time and kept! testing the paint in the tank without skimming it for over an hour. When I went to go use the paint, it all sank! It's been downhill for me ever since on the paint! (But then again, using it for over an hour meant it warmed up... So maybe that brings me back to the cold size)

                      Michelle

                      On May 17, 2014, at 12:26 PM, "Deluwiel Xox deluwiel1209@... [Marbling]" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:









                      oh Michelle - I'm so sorry you're having such trouble! Not being able to stand there and really see what's going on it's hard to say. My only suggestion right off the top of my head is to start with just a couple of colors trying different dilutions until you get those the way they need to be. That might give you a better guideline to know how to tackle the other colors.

                      All I use is distilled water with Golden, Jacquard, the Spectralite colors, as well as the DecoArt So-Soft paints and mix to about the consistency of what I'd use for a wash to cover a canvas. I've had a number of the Jacquard airbrush colors from Dharma float nicely right out of the bottle. I don't use the AFR with my paints at all, just water. Obviously, make sure the paints are mixed really, really well. The only other thing that I can come up with off the top of my head is to check the thickness of your size. Maybe it's not the paints at all. If the size is too thick you might not get the spread though I'm not sure that the paint would sink in that case (anybody else confirm or deny?).

                      Metallics can be very fussy. The Golden gold and silver are the two that I've found to work the very best. Jacquard airbrush metallics (they have metallic blue, red, and yellow that have some flecks of sparkle and are really pretty along with a couple of shades of gold, silver and copper) need some playing around with. Actually the copper I have never been able to get to float, even with the AFR.

                      Not diluting the paint as much I don't think is going to make your colors any darker. As you know, the first couple of colors you put down will spread the most; the next layers will 'push' those colors a bit, compressing them and making them darker; the more paint you lay down the more vivid the colors will be and you'll get much brighter, crisper patterns. (by the way: this is all based on my experience with fabric marbling).

                      Good luck!

                      Deb









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