Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Help! My paints are sinking with carrageenan!

Expand Messages
  • Michelle Herren
    The same goldens and Utrechts paints thT I used in methocel by diluting them w/water and GAC 900 aren t working in my freshly made carrageenan bath! They are
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
      The same goldens and Utrechts paints thT I used in methocel by diluting them w/water and GAC 900 aren't working in my freshly made carrageenan bath! They are sinking and not sticking to the paper!

      When they wouldn't sink, I added several drops to an existing 1 oz of diluted paint. If that didn't work, I added some GAC 900 to make it float.

      The paints do float, but they aren't showing up in my paper. I created a fresh batch of alum yesterday and sprayed it on his texopaper.

      Did I not make the carrageenan strong enough? Did I mess up my paints by adding both Galen Berry's (which is not ox gall) fall and the GAC 900? Should I remix my paints?

      Help! I have all these new supplies, and I'm ruining them!
      Michelle
    • John Goode
      did you let the bath age 24 hours? at 70 degrees?what kind of water? tap or well? just need more info for quick fix...J
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
        did you let the bath age 24 hours? at 70 degrees?what kind of water? tap or well? just need more info for quick fix...J



        On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...> wrote:
         

        The same goldens and Utrechts paints thT I used in methocel by diluting them w/water and GAC 900 aren't working in my freshly made carrageenan bath! They are sinking and not sticking to the paper!

        When they wouldn't sink, I added several drops to an existing 1 oz of diluted paint. If that didn't work, I added some GAC 900 to make it float.

        The paints do float, but they aren't showing up in my paper. I created a fresh batch of alum yesterday and sprayed it on his texopaper.

        Did I not make the carrageenan strong enough? Did I mess up my paints by adding both Galen Berry's (which is not ox gall) fall and the GAC 900? Should I remix my paints?

        Help! I have all these new supplies, and I'm ruining them!
        Michelle


      • Michelle Herren
        I made the solution yesterday and waited until 8:30 this morning to use it. The alum was also remade this morning. I used distilled water for the bath. I let
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
          I made the solution yesterday and waited until 8:30 this morning to use it. The alum was also remade this morning.  I used distilled water for the bath. I let the solution set in the fridge overnight and come to room temperature before starting. 

          Anything else you need to know please ask!

          Michelle

          On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:02 AM, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:

           

          did you let the bath age 24 hours? at 70 degrees?what kind of water? tap or well? just need more info for quick fix...J



          On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...> wrote:
           

          The same goldens and Utrechts paints thT I used in methocel by diluting them w/water and GAC 900 aren't working in my freshly made carrageenan bath! They are sinking and not sticking to the paper!

          When they wouldn't sink, I added several drops to an existing 1 oz of diluted paint. If that didn't work, I added some GAC 900 to make it float.

          The paints do float, but they aren't showing up in my paper. I created a fresh batch of alum yesterday and sprayed it on his texopaper.

          Did I not make the carrageenan strong enough? Did I mess up my paints by adding both Galen Berry's (which is not ox gall) fall and the GAC 900? Should I remix my paints?

          Help! I have all these new supplies, and I'm ruining them!
          Michelle


        • John Goode
          humm maybe take it slow it may start working that is what always happens its always a problem solver.....put out more paint.. make sure thy all are the same
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
            humm maybe take it slow it may start working that is what always happens its always a problem solver.....put out more paint..  make sure thy all are the same temp too....
            Im sure more will come too the table soon J



            On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...> wrote:
             

            I made the solution yesterday and waited until 8:30 this morning to use it. The alum was also remade this morning.  I used distilled water for the bath. I let the solution set in the fridge overnight and come to room temperature before starting. 

            Anything else you need to know please ask!

            Michelle

            On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:02 AM, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:

             

            did you let the bath age 24 hours? at 70 degrees?what kind of water? tap or well? just need more info for quick fix...J



            On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...> wrote:
             

            The same goldens and Utrechts paints thT I used in methocel by diluting them w/water and GAC 900 aren't working in my freshly made carrageenan bath! They are sinking and not sticking to the paper!

            When they wouldn't sink, I added several drops to an existing 1 oz of diluted paint. If that didn't work, I added some GAC 900 to make it float.

            The paints do float, but they aren't showing up in my paper. I created a fresh batch of alum yesterday and sprayed it on his texopaper.

            Did I not make the carrageenan strong enough? Did I mess up my paints by adding both Galen Berry's (which is not ox gall) fall and the GAC 900? Should I remix my paints?

            Help! I have all these new supplies, and I'm ruining them!
            Michelle



          • cherry_hill_drive
            Hi, Michelle, The potential also exists that your are mixing too many different systems together. Perhaps the Goldens and the Utrecht do not want to play
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
              Hi, Michelle,

               The potential also exists that your are mixing too many different "systems" together. Perhaps the Goldens and the Utrecht do not want to "play" together. Perhaps the carageenan needs to age more.

              As I have previously suggested, sticking with one system - i.e.., the Goldens or the Utrecht, will help you be more successful.  What is your alum recipe?  What is your carageenan recipe? Have you tried to find a book binders club in your area for another marbler?  Has that video you mentioned come yet - when it does, watch it carefully and follow what he is doing.  

              You must first get the paints to float before you can apply the paper.  Work on that.

              Good luck!
               Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...>
              To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Apr 17, 2014 2:10 pm
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Help! My paints are sinking with carrageenan!

               
              I made the solution yesterday and waited until 8:30 this morning to use it. The alum was also remade this morning.  I used distilled water for the bath. I let the solution set in the fridge overnight and come to room temperature before starting. 

              Anything else you need to know please ask!

              Michelle

              On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:02 AM, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:

               
              did you let the bath age 24 hours? at 70 degrees?what kind of water? tap or well? just need more info for quick fix...J



              On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...> wrote:
               
              The same goldens and Utrechts paints thT I used in methocel by diluting them w/water and GAC 900 aren't working in my freshly made carrageenan bath! They are sinking and not sticking to the paper!

              When they wouldn't sink, I added several drops to an existing 1 oz of diluted paint. If that didn't work, I added some GAC 900 to make it float.

              The paints do float, but they aren't showing up in my paper. I created a fresh batch of alum yesterday and sprayed it on his texopaper.

              Did I not make the carrageenan strong enough? Did I mess up my paints by adding both Galen Berry's (which is not ox gall) fall and the GAC 900? Should I remix my paints?

              Help! I have all these new supplies, and I'm ruining them!
              Michelle

            • deluwiel1209
              I m sorry to hear that you re struggling Michelle. I m afraid I don t really have any practical solutions for you for paper - I marble on silk and use
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
                I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling Michelle.  I'm afraid I don't really have any practical solutions for you for paper - I marble on silk and use methocel and have never had a problem with my Goldens and various fabric paints floating just mixing with distilled water.  (I always use distilled water to mix the color, but just tap water to make the methocel).  A good trick I learned from the Skycraft video (can't remember if she was using methocel or carageenan but I expect it's about the same for either) to make sure you have your size the right consistency is to plug the hole of a 1/4 cup funnel with your finger and fill it up with the size, then let it drain out.  If it takes 7 or 8 seconds to empty the funnel then you know the size is about the right thickness.  Add some hot water if it drains too slowly or mix up some more size to make it thicker.if need be. 
              • Michelle Herren
                Thanks for the reply. I am only using the Utrecht paints, mainly because Galen berry said that those were his next choice after his paints he sells. I filled
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
                  Thanks for the reply. I am only using the Utrecht paints, mainly because Galen berry said that those were his next choice after his paints he sells. 

                  I filled up the blender 3/4 full with distilled water and added 1 tbsp. Plus 1 tsp. carrageenan and blended for one minute. I put it into a half-gallon jug and filled it up the rest of the way with distilled water. I made the alum by mixing 1 cup of water with 1 tsp alum and shook it until combined. 

                  I have tried to find a bookbinders or paper marbling group here in Las Vegas but haven't found any so far. 

                  I did watch the video last night, and was pleased that I do many things like she does. But she does a gel-git the way I was taught (side to side) but she also does it up and down before starting any pattern. She only showed about 6-7 patterns, and didn't get into stone or Spanish wave or the moire. And those I need some visual cues to learn, though I did do the wave on my last paper. 

                  Michelle

                  On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:32 AM, carylhanc@... wrote:

                   

                  Hi, Michelle,


                   The potential also exists that your are mixing too many different "systems" together. Perhaps the Goldens and the Utrecht do not want to "play" together. Perhaps the carageenan needs to age more.

                  As I have previously suggested, sticking with one system - i.e.., the Goldens or the Utrecht, will help you be more successful.  What is your alum recipe?  What is your carageenan recipe? Have you tried to find a book binders club in your area for another marbler?  Has that video you mentioned come yet - when it does, watch it carefully and follow what he is doing.  

                  You must first get the paints to float before you can apply the paper.  Work on that.

                  Good luck!
                   Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...>
                  To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thu, Apr 17, 2014 2:10 pm
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] Help! My paints are sinking with carrageenan!

                   
                  I made the solution yesterday and waited until 8:30 this morning to use it. The alum was also remade this morning.  I used distilled water for the bath. I let the solution set in the fridge overnight and come to room temperature before starting. 

                  Anything else you need to know please ask!

                  Michelle

                  On Apr 17, 2014, at 11:02 AM, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:

                   
                  did you let the bath age 24 hours? at 70 degrees?what kind of water? tap or well? just need more info for quick fix...J



                  On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Michelle Herren <herrenfam@...> wrote:
                   
                  The same goldens and Utrechts paints thT I used in methocel by diluting them w/water and GAC 900 aren't working in my freshly made carrageenan bath! They are sinking and not sticking to the paper!

                  When they wouldn't sink, I added several drops to an existing 1 oz of diluted paint. If that didn't work, I added some GAC 900 to make it float.

                  The paints do float, but they aren't showing up in my paper. I created a fresh batch of alum yesterday and sprayed it on his texopaper.

                  Did I not make the carrageenan strong enough? Did I mess up my paints by adding both Galen Berry's (which is not ox gall) fall and the GAC 900? Should I remix my paints?

                  Help! I have all these new supplies, and I'm ruining them!
                  Michelle

                • blskoog
                  Hi Michelle ~ With all the variables in marbling that impact results, you re definitely encountering them all! Sometimes a little personal instruction is the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 17, 2014
                    Hi Michelle ~ With all the variables in marbling that impact results, you're definitely encountering them all! Sometimes a little personal instruction is the best solution when it comes to the crazy world of marbling. Pat K. Thomas is a great teacher and is always teaching marbling classes at Campbell Folk School, Arrowmont, and her studio over in North Carolina and Tennessee. Nancy Akerly teaches a variety of classes in Wisconsin. Regina and Dan St. John teach classes throughout the year on the East Coast. Elin Noble is teaching a fabric marbling class in Ohio in May. I'm in Southern California but am done with my group classes for this half of the year (but do private lessons throughout the summer). I'm not sure if Galen Berry (Midwest) or Iris Nevins (East Coast) are teaching this year but you may want to check them out ~ I think they both have instructional books for sale as well (and both sell high-quality marbling supplies). And I vaguely remember someone doing a class in Portland, OR sometime in the next month but I can't remember details. Any other marblers out there teaching...feel free to pipe up!

                    If you don't live in the U.S., there are quite a few marblers actively teaching in Turkey, Spain, South Africa, Italy, and the U.K. Their info is a google search away.

                    Cheers,
                    Barb Skoog
                    www.BarbSkoog.com
                  • Ginny Moreland
                    Hi Michelle, I have one suggestion that may help narrow down the variables. Get yourself some inexpensive plain manilla construction paper (not white) and
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 19, 2014

                      Hi Michelle,

                      I have one suggestion that may help narrow down the variables.  Get yourself some inexpensive plain manilla construction paper (not white) and practice with this.  Construction paper needs no alum and is easy to print with.   Then you can focus on getting the paints to work first.   And not waste money on pricier papers.  (I find the texoprint paper a little tricky, myself.  I think it needs a stronger solution of alum than other papers, since it isn't very absorbent.  It is lovely to work with after the fact, though, and is less likely to give you air bubbles.)

                      I can't speak to the Utrecht paints, but I work with Golden Fluids.  A clarification - GAC 900 is, as Sue said, for use with fabrics.  GAC 800 is sometimes used for paper with marbling paints as it reduces 'crazing'- or gives you a little more time to work a pattern before the paint starts to dry out on the bath.  As far as I know, neither of these additives has much affect on getting the paints to spread.  The product for that is either Golden Flow Release - very much diluted, or Photo-flow.  (And maybe gal, I've not tried it.)

                      I haven't used much of these additives for several years, though.  Certain pigments naturally spread easily.  Any thalo shade will tend to be overly aggressive, in fact.  Titanium white, or other colors that contain a lot of it (e.g. Naples Yellow)  do not spread well on their own.  I usually opt to mix in a bit of another (more cooperative) color to help the spreading, rather than adding a surfactant. 

                      It would be so helpful if you could find another marbler in your area.  You might ask around with university library special collections departments, rare book stores, and any book arts or paper crafts groups.  It's a shame that we don't have a current directory of marblers around the country (or world!)

                      P.S.  Yes, the gel-git is traditionally done in both directions- back and forth once vertically and once horizontally.  The order can vary.

                      Good luck - it can be really frustrating in the beginning, but so rewarding when things do start to come together!

                      Ginny Moreland
                      Black Mountain, NC

                       

                      Hi Michelle ~ With all the variables in marbling that impact results, you're definitely encountering them all! Sometimes a little personal instruction is the best solution when it comes to the crazy world of marbling. Pat K. Thomas is a great teacher and is always teaching marbling classes at Campbell Folk School, Arrowmont, and her studio over in North Carolina and Tennessee. Nancy Akerly teaches a variety of classes in Wisconsin. Regina and Dan St. John teach classes throughout the year on the East Coast. Elin Noble is teaching a fabric marbling class in Ohio in May. I'm in Southern California but am done with my group classes for this half of the year (but do private lessons throughout the summer). I'm not sure if Galen Berry (Midwest) or Iris Nevins (East Coast) are teaching this year but you may want to check them out ~ I think they both have instructional books for sale as well (and both sell high-quality marbling supplies). And I vaguely remember someone doing a class in Portland, OR sometime in the next month but I can't remember details. Any other marblers out there teaching...feel free to pipe up!

                      If you don't live in the U.S., there are quite a few marblers actively teaching in Turkey, Spain, South Africa, Italy, and the U.K. Their info is a google search away.

                      Cheers,
                      Barb Skoog
                      www.BarbSkoog.com

                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.