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carragheanan

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  • Nelle Tresselt
    Dear Carol, I am a marbler in Danbury, Connecticut who has been marbling for almost 20 years. I went through a lot of trial and error with water in all
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 9, 2001
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      Dear Carol,

      I am a marbler in Danbury, Connecticut who has been marbling for almost 20
      years. I went through a lot of trial and error with water in all aspects of
      marbling when I first started. I felt the water I used also had an effect
      on my paints (I marble with Windsor Newton opaque guache, which I dilute
      with water). But anyway, caragheanan is a food basically. And obviously
      like any food, it is going to spoil. What affects it more than anything is
      the temperature at which you store it. If you had a giant walk-in
      refridgerator and could keep your size in there when you are not marbling,
      it would keep for much longer. I've never heard of it keeping for weeks,
      however. But anyway, I found I was having a lot of trouble when I used tap
      water, with my paint not behaving as I wanted it to, and little tiny skin
      "islands" appearing all over the place on the surface of my size and I don't
      even remember what else. But I thought I had better use distilled water.
      And for a long time I used to go to the store and BUY gallons and gallons
      and gallons of distilled water. Then I bought a distiller. And there I was
      distilling water drop by drop 24 hours a day and carrying 5 gallon buckets
      around like the sourcerer's apprentice. But it did seem to work better all
      around, with the skin not forming and my paints behaving. I learned that
      cities sometimes change the way they treat the water, adding more or less of
      certain chemicals, I guess depending on the time of year. But while I was
      marbling with the distilled water, I began to be aware of TEMPERATURE. And
      that was the real key for me. I started pouring my size back into the
      gallon containers and keeping it in the refridgerator. That's when I found
      it would keep for up to a week. I also began making a smaller batch of new
      size and mixing it into my old size, like 50/50 and this freshened up
      everyting, and I got more of that nice elasticity and strength I had when
      the original batch was new. I marbled this way until my back was killing
      me. I decided to try tap water again to see if anything had changed. Lo
      and behold I did not have the same problems that I used to! I don't
      remember what time of year it was, but I have a feeling it must have been
      winter or early spring. Because guess what, the tap water comes out really
      cold at that time. And since my studio was also a very cold room (hot in
      summer, cold in winter), the size kept. Oh, about that bleach. I always
      decant my size into five gallon buckets when I'm through marbling, and when
      I throw it out and when I clean my tray, I use bleach to clean everything.
      So I suppose there is a bleach residue in my equipment. I know the bacteria
      do cause skin to grow in your size. I have never added bleach to my size
      directly, but I suppose you could. How much? You'd have to experiment.
      Anyway, I got rid of my distiller, and now I have been marbling with tap
      water exclusively for many years with no problems. I know in the summer
      months, my size is going to go bad very quickly. Even by the end of the
      day, if I'm marbling during a heat wave. I have also learned that I don't
      need to make as much size as I used to. And I seem to be able to marble on
      a much thinner size than I used to make. I add a lot more water. The more
      water and the less caragheanan, the longer the size lasts. And for the most
      part I throw my size away at the end of the day anyway, unless it's a cold
      time of year and I know I will be marbling again the next day. It's just
      not worth it to marble on tired size. In the spring, I sometimes keep the
      buckets outside when I know they won't freeze and the temperature will keep
      it that perfect nice cold temperature. That actually works GREAT. I love
      marbling at the time of year when I can do that; Cold raw weather, but
      above freezing. I don't know if any of this has been helpful, but to
      summarize, keep you size as cold as you can and it will work better and last
      longer. Will I meet you at the gathering next September? Sincerely, Nelle
      Tresselt

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Carol Scott" <carolscott56560@...>
      To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 11:41 AM
      Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


      > Dear All,
      >
      > I live in western Minnesota and have a question concerning longevity of
      > carragheanan. Recently I made up a batch of size with regular tap
      > water. It had lost almost all of it viscosity the next day so I had
      > about 1 day to marble on it. The next time I marbled I used distilled
      > water from the grocery store. It lasted 2 more days. One of the first
      > signs that my size its on its last days is that when I go to skim the
      > tank it will leave behind a residue that looks like stretch marks.
      >
      > Normally I would just accept the fact that when it comes to
      > carragheanan, life is short, but then I know of another marbler in St.
      > Paul who is able to marble for days or weeks with the same batch.
      >
      > Heres what the Public Service saids about how are water is treated:
      > "The water treatment used is a lime water-softening process, a hightly
      > efficient filtration system and the use of ozone for primary
      > disinfection and ordor/taste removal. The new water plant has
      > significantly reduced the amount of chlorinated by-products generated".
      >
      > I had the water treatment run a quickie test for me that involved 2
      > shallow pans of water, 2 with tap water and 2 with distilled water in
      > it. On each set they covered one pan and left one pan uncovered. They
      > began the test of Friday and returned on Monday to find that all four
      > pans had formed a skim on the surface. And thats all the further they
      > investigated.
      >
      > Should I be adding bleach? Storing my carragheanan so there is less
      > surface area?
      >
      > Any comments would greatly be appreciated.
      >
      > Carol Scott
      > solinger@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Nadine Schaeffer
      yeah, what she said! when I can convince my family they don t need to eat for a week, and I can take over the fridge entirely with my batches of goo, I have
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 10, 2001
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        yeah, what she said!

        when I can convince my family they don't need to eat for a week, and I can take
        over the fridge entirely with my batches of goo, I have great success keeping
        my size for 7-10 days. We have some fairly nasty hard well water here, but it
        doesn't seem to bother my kitchen chemistries too much.

        - nadine

        Nelle Tresselt wrote:

        > Dear Carol,
        >
        > I am a marbler in Danbury, Connecticut who has been marbling for almost 20
        > years. I went through a lot of trial and error with water in all aspects of
        > marbling when I first started. I felt the water I used also had an effect
        > on my paints (I marble with Windsor Newton opaque guache, which I dilute
        > with water). But anyway, caragheanan is a food basically. And obviously
        > like any food, it is going to spoil. What affects it more than anything is
        > the temperature at which you store it. If you had a giant walk-in
        > refridgerator and could keep your size in there when you are not marbling,
        > it would keep for much longer. I've never heard of it keeping for weeks,
        > however. But anyway, I found I was having a lot of trouble when I used tap
        > water, with my paint not behaving as I wanted it to, and little tiny skin
        > "islands" appearing all over the place on the surface of my size and I don't
        > even remember what else. But I thought I had better use distilled water.
        > And for a long time I used to go to the store and BUY gallons and gallons
        > and gallons of distilled water. Then I bought a distiller. And there I was
        > distilling water drop by drop 24 hours a day and carrying 5 gallon buckets
        > around like the sourcerer's apprentice. But it did seem to work better all
        > around, with the skin not forming and my paints behaving. I learned that
        > cities sometimes change the way they treat the water, adding more or less of
        > certain chemicals, I guess depending on the time of year. But while I was
        > marbling with the distilled water, I began to be aware of TEMPERATURE. And
        > that was the real key for me. I started pouring my size back into the
        > gallon containers and keeping it in the refridgerator. That's when I found
        > it would keep for up to a week. I also began making a smaller batch of new
        > size and mixing it into my old size, like 50/50 and this freshened up
        > everyting, and I got more of that nice elasticity and strength I had when
        > the original batch was new. I marbled this way until my back was killing
        > me. I decided to try tap water again to see if anything had changed. Lo
        > and behold I did not have the same problems that I used to! I don't
        > remember what time of year it was, but I have a feeling it must have been
        > winter or early spring. Because guess what, the tap water comes out really
        > cold at that time. And since my studio was also a very cold room (hot in
        > summer, cold in winter), the size kept. Oh, about that bleach. I always
        > decant my size into five gallon buckets when I'm through marbling, and when
        > I throw it out and when I clean my tray, I use bleach to clean everything.
        > So I suppose there is a bleach residue in my equipment. I know the bacteria
        > do cause skin to grow in your size. I have never added bleach to my size
        > directly, but I suppose you could. How much? You'd have to experiment.
        > Anyway, I got rid of my distiller, and now I have been marbling with tap
        > water exclusively for many years with no problems. I know in the summer
        > months, my size is going to go bad very quickly. Even by the end of the
        > day, if I'm marbling during a heat wave. I have also learned that I don't
        > need to make as much size as I used to. And I seem to be able to marble on
        > a much thinner size than I used to make. I add a lot more water. The more
        > water and the less caragheanan, the longer the size lasts. And for the most
        > part I throw my size away at the end of the day anyway, unless it's a cold
        > time of year and I know I will be marbling again the next day. It's just
        > not worth it to marble on tired size. In the spring, I sometimes keep the
        > buckets outside when I know they won't freeze and the temperature will keep
        > it that perfect nice cold temperature. That actually works GREAT. I love
        > marbling at the time of year when I can do that; Cold raw weather, but
        > above freezing. I don't know if any of this has been helpful, but to
        > summarize, keep you size as cold as you can and it will work better and last
        > longer. Will I meet you at the gathering next September? Sincerely, Nelle
        > Tresselt
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Carol Scott" <carolscott56560@...>
        > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 11:41 AM
        > Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)
        >
        > > Dear All,
        > >
        > > I live in western Minnesota and have a question concerning longevity of
        > > carragheanan. Recently I made up a batch of size with regular tap
        > > water. It had lost almost all of it viscosity the next day so I had
        > > about 1 day to marble on it. The next time I marbled I used distilled
        > > water from the grocery store. It lasted 2 more days. One of the first
        > > signs that my size its on its last days is that when I go to skim the
        > > tank it will leave behind a residue that looks like stretch marks.
        > >
        > > Normally I would just accept the fact that when it comes to
        > > carragheanan, life is short, but then I know of another marbler in St.
        > > Paul who is able to marble for days or weeks with the same batch.
        > >
        > > Heres what the Public Service saids about how are water is treated:
        > > "The water treatment used is a lime water-softening process, a hightly
        > > efficient filtration system and the use of ozone for primary
        > > disinfection and ordor/taste removal. The new water plant has
        > > significantly reduced the amount of chlorinated by-products generated".
        > >
        > > I had the water treatment run a quickie test for me that involved 2
        > > shallow pans of water, 2 with tap water and 2 with distilled water in
        > > it. On each set they covered one pan and left one pan uncovered. They
        > > began the test of Friday and returned on Monday to find that all four
        > > pans had formed a skim on the surface. And thats all the further they
        > > investigated.
        > >
        > > Should I be adding bleach? Storing my carragheanan so there is less
        > > surface area?
        > >
        > > Any comments would greatly be appreciated.
        > >
        > > Carol Scott
        > > solinger@...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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