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Re: [Marbling] Re: Wood Bubbles

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  • Milena Hughes
    Joan- In response to marbling on wood: Many species have quite a bit of (invisable to the eye) resin. This will cause voids in your final image and also
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 31, 2001
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      Joan-
      In response to marbling on wood: Many species have quite a bit of
      (invisable to the eye) resin. This will cause voids in your final image and
      also "bubbles" as the piece is removed from the tank...when the bubbles
      break: again, voids of color or pattern. Some woods are worse than
      others...especially Balsam. I prefer Walnut, but it is quite $$$$. Try
      sanding your wood better, then rubbing in the alum solution with a cloth or
      sponge. Let dry, then check for specks of sponge, etc., still clinging to
      the wood surface. Remove by wiping gently with a clean brush. Between the
      uneven fiber swelling and the resin problem- marbling on wood can be quite a
      challenge. I think laquering first would make the matter even worse, as now
      you've sealed off fibers even though some might be porous after
      sanding...again, uneven absorbption. The top thin layer might marble, but
      it will be sealed just underneath the surface (from the laquer). This will
      cause MANY problems after the wood piece has matured and aired for a year or
      two. The surface will "amber" (get dark) and the marbling will begin to
      fade, fade, fade away. I have one bowl, marbled ten years ago that is
      slowly doing the disappearing act, and it was "direct to surface" marbling.
      I rather like it the way it is now...but who knows what it will look like in
      another10 years.
      - Milena

      sixshort@... wrote:

      > --Hi Milena- Interesting to hear of fibers swelling unevenly in
      > different timbers - is there a rule of thumb in this, or does each
      > piece have to be tested individually? And does a light coat of a
      > clear lacquer, lightly sanded, stop the bubbling in wood? I have
      > had only limited success with marbling wood and other solid
      > objects.Joan Ajala In Marbling@y..., Milena Hughes <milena@i...>
      > wrote:
      > > I have been follwing the "bubbles" messages with interest.
      > > The same thing happen when marbling on various species of wood.
      > > It is definitely caused by the uneven swelling of fibers! -Milena
      > >
      > > sixshort@y... wrote:
      > >
      > > > -Dear Tom, Thanks for the ongoing thoughts - Jake Benson in
      > Message
      > > > 684 also mentioned that the sizing of the Indian papers might be
      > > > causing the air to be trapped, with the fibers swelling unevenly
      > when
      > > > wet and trapping air between them. I spoke to a person who saw
      > > > these papers being made. He told me they were made from old
      > cotton t-
      > > > shirt fibers, and he thought they were internally sized. If this
      > is
      > > > so, there would not be an uneven distribution of external sizing.
      > > > Yes, I soaked the papers to try and remove the bubbles - fairly
      > > > successfully, as many came up. I agree with you that the papers
      > are
      > > > almost indestructible. They also have a silken texture, and are
      > so
      > > > beautiful to work with that I would like to persevere with them.
      > I
      > > > can't achieve the crisp lines that a flat calendared paper allows,
      > > > but the subtle, soft lines on the Indian paper are worth the
      > > > effort. The Buko Undo suminagashi inks were much more successful
      > on
      > > > the Indian paper than watercolour paints. Let me know how you
      > get
      > > > on with the present marbling session. Only today Vi Wilson, my
      > > > wonderful marbling teacher, mentioned that I might like to look at
      > > > her copy of "The World's Worst Marbled Papers" - good to compare
      > it
      > > > with our experiences of Indian paper!- Best regards, Joan Ajala
      > > > Marbling@y..., leech541@a... wrote:
      > > > > Dear Joan, This is getting interesting. Now i remember having a
      > > > similar
      > > > > problem years ago when i used the Indian handmades. I think i
      > must
      > > > not be
      > > > > nearly as persistent as you. I just put them aside and avoided
      > > > them, thinking
      > > > > the problem was with the me. Too bad, because they are such a
      > good
      > > > buy.
      > > > > Anyway, i'm going to be doing some marbling today and will give
      > > > them a try.
      > > > >
      > > > > I have some thoughts about what the problem might be though.
      > First,
      > > > i'm
      > > > > curious about why you submerge the paper in the first place. Is
      > > > that to get
      > > > > the bubbles out? When I alum i use a spray bottle and a sponge.
      > > > Maybe 2 or
      > > > > even 3 applications of alum, sponged in well would work (?). I
      > > > think a long
      > > > > soak in water (water being the universal solvent) might be
      > worth a
      > > > try. Like
      > > > > at least overnight, as if you were soaking it for etching, and
      > as
      > > > long as a
      > > > > couple of days, with a rinse once in while thrown in for good
      > > > measure. The
      > > > > Indian papers i've used for printmaking are tough as can be, and
      > > > you could
      > > > > probably hit them with a fire hose and they would stay in one
      > piece.
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, after thoroughly soaking them you would want to dry them
      > > > flat before
      > > > > aluming and marbling. And then try to marble with them while
      > still
      > > > damp and
      > > > > limp from the aluming. Once they have dried out you would
      > probably
      > > > have to
      > > > > really wrestle with them.
      > > > >
      > > > > My guess as to the source of the problem is that it comes from
      > the
      > > > sizing. It
      > > > > is probably applied to the various papers you mentioned in
      > > > different ways,
      > > > > but if it is a surface sizing it could easily have trapped air
      > in
      > > > the fibers.
      > > > > Less likely would be bleach or caustic soda, because they would
      > > > have been
      > > > > diluted and evenly distributed throughout the sheet. If the
      > > > chemical used as
      > > > > internal sizing is applied directly to the sheet, as a surface
      > > > size, it
      > > > > would be extremely tough and probably spotty.
      > > > >
      > > > > This does bring to mind the wonderful and no doubt funniest
      > book
      > > > ever
      > > > > written about marbling - Henry Morris' "The World's Worst
      > Marbled
      > > > Papers." It
      > > > > used Indian handmade papers, marbled with the worst collection
      > of
      > > > bubbles,
      > > > > spots, dust and other flaws imaginable. It never occured to me
      > > > that some of
      > > > > the flaws could be attributed to the paper, but i'll bet that
      > is
      > > > the case.
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, that's all for now. I'll let you know what happens with
      > my
      > > > marbling
      > > > > today. tom
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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