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Re: [Marbling] seeking dark paper

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  • Nancy Akerly
    Hi Elizabeth! I have used black card stock with success. Also black Tyvek. And many different colors of block print paper which I got from DickBlick. I had
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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      Hi Elizabeth! I have used black card stock with success. Also black Tyvek. And many different colors of block print paper which I got from DickBlick. I had good luck with metallic card stock also, which ingot at Office Depot. Good luck!
      Nancy
      Liberty Grove Paper Arts

      Sent from my iPad

      On Jun 20, 2013, at 10:31 PM, Esdehority <ESDeHority@...> wrote:

      > hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall apart..... intact is good.
      >
      > any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to buy???
      >
      > thanks,
      > Elizbaeth in NC
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: catthom3@...
      > To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm
      > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Hello! I'm new and already have questions-
      >
      > Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
      >
      > Thank you Nancy!
      >
      > Cat
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hi, Cat!
      >
      > > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
      >
      > > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
      >
      > > Nancy
      >
      > > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Sent from my iPad
      >
      > >
      >
      > > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the sa
      > me already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
      >
      > > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
      >
      > > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
      >
      > > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
      >
      > > > Cat
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • D or Jer Guffey
      I have had success with black and other dark colors with Mi-Teintes by Canson. d.guffey From: Esdehority Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:31 PM To:
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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        I have had success with black and other dark colors with Mi-Teintes by Canson.

        d.guffey


        From: Esdehority
        Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:31 PM
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Marbling] seeking dark paper



        hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall apart..... intact is good.

        any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to buy???

        thanks,
        Elizbaeth in NC

        -----Original Message-----
        From: catthom3@...
        To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm
        Subject: [Marbling] Re: Hello! I'm new and already have questions-

        Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.

        Thank you Nancy!

        Cat

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:

        >

        > Hi, Cat!

        > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.

        > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.

        >

        > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.

        >

        > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.

        >

        > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!

        > Nancy

        > Liberty Grove Paper Arts

        >

        > Sent from my iPad

        >

        > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:

        >

        > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the s! a
        me already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.

        > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.

        > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.

        > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.

        > > Cat

        > >

        > >

        >

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • D or Jer Guffey
        From: Cat I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method. Thanks for any
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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          From: Cat
          I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
          Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
          Cat



          The only advantage of marbling with oil paints is that you don't have to alum the paper. The disadvantage is having to thin the paints with paint thinner or turpentine...both smelly, and possibly toxic to some extent. I know from which I speak because from 1976 to 1980 I only used oil paints...once I switched to acrylics I never went back. Also, you cannot get fine lines with oils as with acrylics and the paint permeates the paper to the other side.

          But try it, just to see...you may like the results.

          d.guffey

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Cat
          d.guffy, I will take this to heart. I can print oil based inks on top of acrylics, so it may not come up. Cat
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            d.guffy, I will take this to heart. I can print oil based inks on top of acrylics, so it may not come up.
            Cat
            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Cat
            > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
            > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
            > Cat
            >
            >
            >
            > The only advantage of marbling with oil paints is that you don't have to alum the paper. The disadvantage is having to thin the paints with paint thinner or turpentine...both smelly, and possibly toxic to some extent. I know from which I speak because from 1976 to 1980 I only used oil paints...once I switched to acrylics I never went back. Also, you cannot get fine lines with oils as with acrylics and the paint permeates the paper to the other side.
            >
            > But try it, just to see...you may like the results.
            >
            > d.guffey
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Carole Floate
            Hi everyone, I have about 15# s of methylcellulose and 125 1/2oz bottles of clear amonia.  Is there anyone interested in it?  Does anyone use it? Carole A.
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 21, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi everyone,
              I have about 15#'s of methylcellulose and 125 1/2oz bottles of clear amonia.  Is there anyone interested in it?  Does anyone use it?

              Carole A. Floate
              CF Turnings
              200 W. Witchwood Lane
              Lake Bluff, IL 60044
              P 847-295-2631
              F 847-295-2675


              ________________________________
              From: Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...>
              To: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:38 PM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] seeking dark paper

               

              Hi Elizabeth! I have used black card stock with success. Also black Tyvek. And many different colors of block print paper which I got from DickBlick. I had good luck with metallic card stock also, which ingot at Office Depot. Good luck!
              Nancy
              Liberty Grove Paper Arts

              Sent from my iPad

              On Jun 20, 2013, at 10:31 PM, Esdehority <mailto:ESDeHority%40aol.com> wrote:

              > hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall apart..... intact is good.
              >
              > any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to buy???
              >
              > thanks,
              > Elizbaeth in NC
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: mailto:catthom3%40gmail.com
              > To: Marbling <mailto:Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm
              > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Hello! I'm new and already have questions-
              >
              > Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
              >
              > Thank you Nancy!
              >
              > Cat
              >
              > --- In mailto:Marbling%40yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Hi, Cat!
              >
              > > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
              >
              > > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
              >
              > > Nancy
              >
              > > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Sent from my iPad
              >
              > >
              >
              > > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked
              great. I reused the sa
              > me already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
              >
              > > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
              >
              > > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
              >
              > > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
              >
              > > > Cat
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ginny Moreland
              I echo the recommendation of Canson Mi Tientes - lots of delicious colors. Marbles nicely though a bit thicker than I like for some purposes. If you live
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 21, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                I echo the recommendation of Canson Mi Tientes - lots of delicious
                colors. Marbles nicely though a bit thicker than I like for some
                purposes. If you live near a city of any size you may be able to find
                these in art supply or craft stores. Even in Hickory, Hobby Lobby
                carried them. Good to see the colors in person, though you may find
                cheaper prices online.
                The other black paper I adore is Hahnemuhle Ingres
                <http://www.dickblick.com/products/hahnemuhle-ingres-paper/> , which
                also comes in off-whites and several muted colors. The paper is German
                made and easy to work with. It almost never gives me an air bubble and
                wraps around boards nicely. (Can stretch if it gets very damp with
                glue.) I order it from Dick Blick, but if anyone has found an even
                cheaper source, please let us know. Hahnemulhle will let you mix and
                match colors for the bulk discount on the Blick site. I've experimented
                with their other colors, but the only ones I regularly use are the dark
                blue-green and orange (which is more of a marigold color.) Be sure to
                use some metallic paints on your black paper!
                I'm now in Black Mountain, near Asheville. Are you in the western part
                of the state?
                Ginny Moreland


                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Esdehority wrote:
                >
                > hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would
                like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a
                little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that
                if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall
                apart..... intact is good.
                >
                > any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to
                buy???
                >
                > thanks,
                > Elizbaeth in NC




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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