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Re: [Marbling] Hello! I'm new and already have questions-

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  • Nancy Akerly
    Hi, Cat! I have not used methyl cel, so I can t speak to that. But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it?
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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      Hi, Cat!
      I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
      But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.

      I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.

      I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.

      Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
      Nancy
      Liberty Grove Paper Arts

      Sent from my iPad

      On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:

      > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the same already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
      > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
      > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
      > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
      > Cat
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Cat
      No, I read differing reports over how long it would last. I may just mix it up fresh each time. Thanks for your response! Cat
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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        No, I read differing reports over how long it would last. I may just mix it up fresh each time. Thanks for your response!
        Cat

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Cat!
        > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
        > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
        >
        > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
        >
        > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
        >
        > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
        > Nancy
        > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
        >
        > Sent from my iPad
        >
        > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the same already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
        > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
        > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
        > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
        > > Cat
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Cat
        Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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          Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
          Thank you Nancy!
          Cat

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Cat!
          > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
          > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
          >
          > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
          >
          > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
          >
          > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
          > Nancy
          > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
          >
          > Sent from my iPad
          >
          > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the same already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
          > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
          > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
          > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
          > > Cat
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • irisnevins
          You don t need to refrigerate it right after making, and it may prevent it from disolving the lumps. It should be room temperature to work on, unless it s very
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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            You don't need to refrigerate it right after making, and it may prevent it from disolving the lumps. It should be room temperature to work on, unless it's very hot. then I'd air condition the room.
            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com


            On 06/20/13, Cat<catthom3@...> wrote:

            Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
            Thank you Nancy!
            Cat

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Cat!
            > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
            > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
            >
            > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
            >
            > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
            >
            > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
            > Nancy
            > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
            >
            > Sent from my iPad
            >
            > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the same already
            mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
            > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
            > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
            > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
            > > Cat
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >




            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Cat
            Good to know Iris. I tried working at home, but I just don t have the space, and just can t stand working outside when it is 90 some odd degrees, with very,
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
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              Good to know Iris. I tried working at home, but I just don't have the space, and just can't stand working outside when it is 90 some odd degrees, with very, very high humidity. I teach at the Morean Arts Center, and can use the printmaking studios(blessedly air conditioned). So, every Tuesday, before my class I plan to do my own work. I'll mix up the carrageenan the day before and take it with me. Boy, do I love marbling! It's a learning curve, but that's not new- I just want to have some iota of control while I am learning what to do. Thanks Iris!
              Cat
              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
              >
              > You don't need to refrigerate it right after making, and it may prevent it from disolving the lumps. It should be room temperature to work on, unless it's very hot. then I'd air condition the room.
              > Iris Nevins
              > www.marblingpaper.com
              >
              >
              > On 06/20/13, Cat<catthom3@...> wrote:
              >
              > Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
              > Thank you Nancy!
              > Cat
              >
              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi, Cat!
              > > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
              > > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
              > >
              > > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
              > >
              > > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
              > >
              > > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
              > > Nancy
              > > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
              > >
              > > Sent from my iPad
              > >
              > > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the same already
              > mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
              > > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
              > > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
              > > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
              > > > Cat
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • Nancy Akerly
              Cat, and Iris too, I am sorry, perhaps what I wrote was unclear. I don t refrigerate the carrageenan unless, after a day or two of marbling, I have some left
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Cat, and Iris too, I am sorry, perhaps what I wrote was unclear. I don't refrigerate the carrageenan unless, after a day or two of marbling, I have some left over. Then refrigeration will preserve its useable life. What a nice situation you have, Cat, that you have a studio you can use for your marbling and that it is air conditioned. Even up here in Northern Wisconsin I don't marble without air conditioning in the summer, whether because of the heat or the humidity. Sounds like you are having fun and I think that's the most important part. After a day of marbling I go to bed dreaming of new combinations and possibilities. Absolutely addictive!
                Nancy

                Sent from my iPad

                On Jun 20, 2013, at 6:56 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:

                >
                > Good to know Iris. I tried working at home, but I just don't have the space, and just can't stand working outside when it is 90 some odd degrees, with very, very high humidity. I teach at the Morean Arts Center, and can use the printmaking studios(blessedly air conditioned). So, every Tuesday, before my class I plan to do my own work. I'll mix up the carrageenan the day before and take it with me. Boy, do I love marbling! It's a learning curve, but that's not new- I just want to have some iota of control while I am learning what to do. Thanks Iris!
                > Cat
                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > You don't need to refrigerate it right after making, and it may prevent it from disolving the lumps. It should be room temperature to work on, unless it's very hot. then I'd air condition the room.
                > > Iris Nevins
                > > www.marblingpaper.com
                > >
                > >
                > > On 06/20/13, Cat<catthom3@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
                > > Thank you Nancy!
                > > Cat
                > >
                > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi, Cat!
                > > > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
                > > > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
                > > >
                > > > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
                > > >
                > > > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
                > > >
                > > > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
                > > > Nancy
                > > > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                > > >
                > > > Sent from my iPad
                > > >
                > > > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the same already
                > > mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
                > > > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
                > > > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
                > > > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
                > > > > Cat
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Esdehority
                hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier.
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall apart..... intact is good.

                  any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to buy???

                  thanks,
                  Elizbaeth in NC



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: catthom3@...
                  To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm
                  Subject: [Marbling] Re: Hello! I'm new and already have questions-



                  Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.

                  Thank you Nancy!

                  Cat

                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > Hi, Cat!

                  > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.

                  > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.

                  >

                  > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.

                  >

                  > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.

                  >

                  > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!

                  > Nancy

                  > Liberty Grove Paper Arts

                  >

                  > Sent from my iPad

                  >

                  > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the sa
                  me already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.

                  > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.

                  > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.

                  > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.

                  > > Cat

                  > >

                  > >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nancy Akerly
                  Hi Elizabeth! I have used black card stock with success. Also black Tyvek. And many different colors of block print paper which I got from DickBlick. I had
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Elizabeth! I have used black card stock with success. Also black Tyvek. And many different colors of block print paper which I got from DickBlick. I had good luck with metallic card stock also, which ingot at Office Depot. Good luck!
                    Nancy
                    Liberty Grove Paper Arts

                    Sent from my iPad

                    On Jun 20, 2013, at 10:31 PM, Esdehority <ESDeHority@...> wrote:

                    > hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall apart..... intact is good.
                    >
                    > any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to buy???
                    >
                    > thanks,
                    > Elizbaeth in NC
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: catthom3@...
                    > To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm
                    > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Hello! I'm new and already have questions-
                    >
                    > Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
                    >
                    > Thank you Nancy!
                    >
                    > Cat
                    >
                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Hi, Cat!
                    >
                    > > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
                    >
                    > > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
                    >
                    > > Nancy
                    >
                    > > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Sent from my iPad
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the sa
                    > me already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
                    >
                    > > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
                    >
                    > > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
                    >
                    > > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
                    >
                    > > > Cat
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • D or Jer Guffey
                    I have had success with black and other dark colors with Mi-Teintes by Canson. d.guffey From: Esdehority Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:31 PM To:
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have had success with black and other dark colors with Mi-Teintes by Canson.

                      d.guffey


                      From: Esdehority
                      Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:31 PM
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Marbling] seeking dark paper



                      hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall apart..... intact is good.

                      any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to buy???

                      thanks,
                      Elizbaeth in NC

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: catthom3@...
                      To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm
                      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Hello! I'm new and already have questions-

                      Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.

                      Thank you Nancy!

                      Cat

                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:

                      >

                      > Hi, Cat!

                      > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.

                      > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.

                      >

                      > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.

                      >

                      > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.

                      >

                      > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!

                      > Nancy

                      > Liberty Grove Paper Arts

                      >

                      > Sent from my iPad

                      >

                      > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:

                      >

                      > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked great. I reused the s! a
                      me already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.

                      > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.

                      > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.

                      > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.

                      > > Cat

                      > >

                      > >

                      >

                      >

                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • D or Jer Guffey
                      From: Cat I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method. Thanks for any
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        From: Cat
                        I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
                        Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
                        Cat



                        The only advantage of marbling with oil paints is that you don't have to alum the paper. The disadvantage is having to thin the paints with paint thinner or turpentine...both smelly, and possibly toxic to some extent. I know from which I speak because from 1976 to 1980 I only used oil paints...once I switched to acrylics I never went back. Also, you cannot get fine lines with oils as with acrylics and the paint permeates the paper to the other side.

                        But try it, just to see...you may like the results.

                        d.guffey

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Cat
                        d.guffy, I will take this to heart. I can print oil based inks on top of acrylics, so it may not come up. Cat
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 20, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          d.guffy, I will take this to heart. I can print oil based inks on top of acrylics, so it may not come up.
                          Cat
                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Cat
                          > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
                          > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
                          > Cat
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The only advantage of marbling with oil paints is that you don't have to alum the paper. The disadvantage is having to thin the paints with paint thinner or turpentine...both smelly, and possibly toxic to some extent. I know from which I speak because from 1976 to 1980 I only used oil paints...once I switched to acrylics I never went back. Also, you cannot get fine lines with oils as with acrylics and the paint permeates the paper to the other side.
                          >
                          > But try it, just to see...you may like the results.
                          >
                          > d.guffey
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Carole Floate
                          Hi everyone, I have about 15# s of methylcellulose and 125 1/2oz bottles of clear amonia.  Is there anyone interested in it?  Does anyone use it? Carole A.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 21, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi everyone,
                            I have about 15#'s of methylcellulose and 125 1/2oz bottles of clear amonia.  Is there anyone interested in it?  Does anyone use it?

                            Carole A. Floate
                            CF Turnings
                            200 W. Witchwood Lane
                            Lake Bluff, IL 60044
                            P 847-295-2631
                            F 847-295-2675


                            ________________________________
                            From: Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...>
                            To: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:38 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Marbling] seeking dark paper

                             

                            Hi Elizabeth! I have used black card stock with success. Also black Tyvek. And many different colors of block print paper which I got from DickBlick. I had good luck with metallic card stock also, which ingot at Office Depot. Good luck!
                            Nancy
                            Liberty Grove Paper Arts

                            Sent from my iPad

                            On Jun 20, 2013, at 10:31 PM, Esdehority <mailto:ESDeHority%40aol.com> wrote:

                            > hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall apart..... intact is good.
                            >
                            > any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to buy???
                            >
                            > thanks,
                            > Elizbaeth in NC
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: mailto:catthom3%40gmail.com
                            > To: Marbling <mailto:Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm
                            > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Hello! I'm new and already have questions-
                            >
                            > Sounds like I need to mix up the carrageenan fresh the day before each time, and refridgerate. I may want to try other paints, maybe that will help too. The printmaking papers (essential for what I want to do in addition to marbling) don't seem to curl up. I do flatten them the day after under a bunch of books, but they don't seem to have a problem with wrinkling or curling.
                            >
                            > Thank you Nancy!
                            >
                            > Cat
                            >
                            > --- In mailto:Marbling%40yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Hi, Cat!
                            >
                            > > I have not used methyl cel, so I can't speak to that.
                            >
                            > > But with the carrageenan, you said you had saved it. Did you refrigerate it after you made it? It will keep a few days if you refrigerate it, otherwise it will deteriorate and won't work.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > I mix my alum, one cup of water to one teaspoon of alum, stirring for a minute or so, then applying with a sponge, wiping first one way, then across the paper the other way so all parts are covered. I let that dry and press it under a board and weight so the paper is smooth. I use Textoprint paper and get terrific results almost every time. I have also used Lokta paper, Arches Text Weave, and block printing papers with success.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > I use Galen Berry,s MarbleArt paints, which are terrific, but I understand that Golden paints generally work just fine also. I use either photoFlo or Marblers Gall when paints start sinking. It does seem that paints that work fine one day don't work the next, depending on humidity, temperature, and the marbling gods. My marbling students always seem to expect a chemistry formula to ensure that it works the same each time. That has not been my experience.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Good luck! I hope you have better luck this time!
                            >
                            > > Nancy
                            >
                            > > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Sent from my iPad
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > On Jun 20, 2013, at 2:27 PM, "Cat" <catthom3@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > Thank heavens for this group! I am an artist, primarily printmaking, sculpture and various digital media. I live in Tampa Florida.I have been attempting to teach myself marbling, and after the first attempt (against all odds) turned out wonderful, I have been having problems. The first time, I used carrageenan, mixed it up the same day (I know, it should have sat longer) - it was a little lumpy but worked fine. I am using Golden acrylics, mixed them up new that day, watered down a little (like milk)and added a drop of Golden acrylic flow release (I was using very small dropper bottles), I had coated 100% rag printmaking paper with alum on one side. Like I said- excellent results- a couple of bubble voids on one, but I was so happy. I lost hardly any color while rinsing. The next time, a week later, I switched to methyl cellulose (price), mixed it according to the instructions (4 tbspn plus 2 tbspn plain ammonia in one gallon warm water) looked
                            great. I reused the sa
                            > me already mixed colors in the dropper bottles after shaking them up. Used the same paper, same alum application. Yuck. The colors dropped to the bottom immediately for the most part (but not the yellow or red?) and when I did manage to pull a print, most of the colors ran while being very gently rinsed. I did get some patterns, but pretty faint, not at all like my first batch. I also tried out using a squeegee first (not on the first few), gently I swear- but it didn't help. I had saved my carrageenan, it had lost it's lumps and looked perfect- so I tried that next, but same results.
                            >
                            > > > So, my questions are- do you see anything obviously wrong with my set up the second time around? Should I soak the paper in alum instead of coating one side? Should I mix the colors fresh each time? I do understand different colors take different approaches, but the failures were almost universal. Add more surfactant? I have been drying my prints flat- and the first batch turned out fine. Argh. Now I am hooked, but frustrated.
                            >
                            > > > I plan to use my marbling prints in conjunction with monoprinting and even intaglio. I am also going to try out the oil based method.
                            >
                            > > > Thanks for any help whatsoever- I really love marbling. You might say, it has become an obsession. I'll try to figure out how to post images soon.
                            >
                            > > > Cat
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ginny Moreland
                            I echo the recommendation of Canson Mi Tientes - lots of delicious colors. Marbles nicely though a bit thicker than I like for some purposes. If you live
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 21, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I echo the recommendation of Canson Mi Tientes - lots of delicious
                              colors. Marbles nicely though a bit thicker than I like for some
                              purposes. If you live near a city of any size you may be able to find
                              these in art supply or craft stores. Even in Hickory, Hobby Lobby
                              carried them. Good to see the colors in person, though you may find
                              cheaper prices online.
                              The other black paper I adore is Hahnemuhle Ingres
                              <http://www.dickblick.com/products/hahnemuhle-ingres-paper/> , which
                              also comes in off-whites and several muted colors. The paper is German
                              made and easy to work with. It almost never gives me an air bubble and
                              wraps around boards nicely. (Can stretch if it gets very damp with
                              glue.) I order it from Dick Blick, but if anyone has found an even
                              cheaper source, please let us know. Hahnemulhle will let you mix and
                              match colors for the bulk discount on the Blick site. I've experimented
                              with their other colors, but the only ones I regularly use are the dark
                              blue-green and orange (which is more of a marigold color.) Be sure to
                              use some metallic paints on your black paper!
                              I'm now in Black Mountain, near Asheville. Are you in the western part
                              of the state?
                              Ginny Moreland


                              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Esdehority wrote:
                              >
                              > hi, I have been marbling mostly on texoprint and fabric, but I would
                              like to try it on dark colored paper, preferably text weight or just a
                              little heavier. cost isn't really an issue, but i need sometning that
                              if appropriately alumed will teuly hold the paint. (and not fall
                              apart..... intact is good.
                              >
                              > any suggestions? or dare I even ask for detailed reviews and where to
                              buy???
                              >
                              > thanks,
                              > Elizbaeth in NC




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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