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Applying Alum

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  • KimH
    Hi, I am a newbie who is getting much better at marbling. I am having a slight issue with the paint not staying on the paper. I think it is either the
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 25, 2013
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      Hi,

      I am a newbie who is getting much better at marbling. I am having a slight issue with the paint not staying on the paper. I think it is either the (alum-ed) paper was not completely dry (the paint washed off) or I had small streaks where the alum didn't get (small streaks of paint came of completely on the edges). I have a couple of questions. I used a flat sponge to put the alum on in overlapping strokes from left to right. Do I just need to be more careful when covering the paper, or would a mister work better than a sponge? Would that help for those edges I sometimes miss? How about sitting time for the alum-ed paper? I put it between boards and let it sit for about a half-hour or more. Should I take the paper out at some point and let it completely dry, or should the half hour under the boards be adequate?

      I should note that most of my marbling did take, and I was extremely pleased to have a successful go of it this last weekend.
    • irisnevins
      Sounds like a buffered paper problem to me! What paper are you using? Try unbuffered bond from www.talasonline.com Most paper doesn t work anymore! Iris
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 25, 2013
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        Sounds like a buffered paper problem to me! What paper are you using? Try "unbuffered bond" from www.talasonline.com

        Most paper doesn't work anymore!

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com



        On 03/25/13, KimH<kahether@...> wrote:

        Hi,

        I am a newbie who is getting much better at marbling. I am having a slight issue with the paint not staying on the paper. I think it is either the (alum-ed) paper was not completely dry (the paint washed off) or I had small streaks where the alum didn't get (small streaks of paint came of completely on the edges). I have a couple of questions. I used a flat sponge to put the alum on in overlapping strokes from left to right. Do I just need to be more careful when covering the paper, or would a mister work better than a sponge? Would that help for those edges I sometimes miss? How about sitting time for the alum-ed paper? I put it between boards and let it sit for about a half-hour or more. Should I take the paper out at some point and let it completely dry, or should the half hour under the boards be adequate?

        I should note that most of my marbling did take, and I was extremely pleased to have a successful go of it this last weekend.



        ------------------------------------

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      • MH
        Hi, When I apply alum, I do it as you describe. Then I go over the sheet again, this time from top to bottom. This evens out any streaks caused by the first
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 25, 2013
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          Hi,

          When I apply alum, I do it as you describe. Then I go over the sheet again, this time from top to bottom. This evens out any streaks caused by the first application. Then I lay two sheets together, alummed faces touching. I then put this pair of sheets between boards, building a stack. When I've alummed all my sheets, I put heavy weights on top of the board/paper stack and let it sit overnight. The next day, the paper is flat and dry (or very nearly so) and I have no problem with the paint coming off or with streaks. Hope this helps.

          --Marc Horovitz


          On Mar 25, 2013, at 1:08 PM, KimH wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > I am a newbie who is getting much better at marbling. I am having a slight issue with the paint not staying on the paper. I think it is either the (alum-ed) paper was not completely dry (the paint washed off) or I had small streaks where the alum didn't get (small streaks of paint came of completely on the edges). I have a couple of questions. I used a flat sponge to put the alum on in overlapping strokes from left to right. Do I just need to be more careful when covering the paper, or would a mister work better than a sponge? Would that help for those edges I sometimes miss? How about sitting time for the alum-ed paper? I put it between boards and let it sit for about a half-hour or more. Should I take the paper out at some point and let it completely dry, or should the half hour under the boards be adequate?
          >
          > I should note that most of my marbling did take, and I was extremely pleased to have a successful go of it this last weekend.
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • irisnevins
          If you use a too buffered with calcium carbonate paper, no amount of alum will help! I alum and hang two together, BACK TO BACK with alumed sides out, on a
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 25, 2013
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            If you use a "too buffered" with calcium carbonate paper, no amount of alum will help!

            I alum and hang two together, BACK TO BACK with alumed sides out, on a line, tile they are dry. Usually the next morning. Then I stack, and use three days to a week later. If dry, and kept under 50% humidity, they can last literally for years this way and not lose the alum effect. Can't be a buffered paper though, they just don't tend to work, paint comes off in streaks as you describe, a total mess.

            They went and ruined all the darned paper for us!

            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com



            On 03/25/13, MH<bannerworks@...> wrote:

            Hi,

            When I apply alum, I do it as you describe. Then I go over the sheet again, this time from top to bottom. This evens out any streaks caused by the first application. Then I lay two sheets together, alummed faces touching. I then put this pair of sheets between boards, building a stack. When I've alummed all my sheets, I put heavy weights on top of the board/paper stack and let it sit overnight. The next day, the paper is flat and dry (or very nearly so) and I have no problem with the paint coming off or with streaks. Hope this helps.

            --Marc Horovitz


            On Mar 25, 2013, at 1:08 PM, KimH wrote:

            > Hi,
            >
            > I am a newbie who is getting much better at marbling. I am having a slight issue with the paint not staying on the paper. I think it is either the (alum-ed) paper was not completely dry (the paint washed off) or I had small streaks where the alum didn't get (small streaks of paint came of completely on the edges). I have a couple of questions. I used a flat sponge to put the alum on in overlapping strokes from left to right. Do I just need to be more careful when covering the paper, or would a mister work better than a sponge? Would that help for those edges I sometimes miss? How about sitting time for the alum-ed paper? I put it between boards and let it sit for about a half-hour or more. Should I take the paper out at some point and let it completely dry, or should the half hour under the boards be adequate?
            >
            > I should note that most of my marbling did take, and I was extremely pleased to have a successful go of it this last weekend.
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

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          • KimH
            Thanks Marc, this sounds very similar to what I was doing but takes it a bit further. I m going to try this (going over the sheet a second time, putting alum
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 26, 2013
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              Thanks Marc, this sounds very similar to what I was doing but takes it a bit further. I'm going to try this (going over the sheet a second time, putting alum sides together - love this, and letting it sit overnight between the boards). I think going these extra few steps will fix my problems.
              THANKS!

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, MH <bannerworks@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > When I apply alum, I do it as you describe. Then I go over the sheet again, this time from top to bottom. This evens out any streaks caused by the first application. Then I lay two sheets together, alummed faces touching. I then put this pair of sheets between boards, building a stack. When I've alummed all my sheets, I put heavy weights on top of the board/paper stack and let it sit overnight. The next day, the paper is flat and dry (or very nearly so) and I have no problem with the paint coming off or with streaks. Hope this helps.
              >
              > --Marc Horovitz
              >
              >
              > On Mar 25, 2013, at 1:08 PM, KimH wrote:
              >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > I am a newbie who is getting much better at marbling. I am having a slight issue with the paint not staying on the paper. I think it is either the (alum-ed) paper was not completely dry (the paint washed off) or I had small streaks where the alum didn't get (small streaks of paint came of completely on the edges). I have a couple of questions. I used a flat sponge to put the alum on in overlapping strokes from left to right. Do I just need to be more careful when covering the paper, or would a mister work better than a sponge? Would that help for those edges I sometimes miss? How about sitting time for the alum-ed paper? I put it between boards and let it sit for about a half-hour or more. Should I take the paper out at some point and let it completely dry, or should the half hour under the boards be adequate?
              > >
              > > I should note that most of my marbling did take, and I was extremely pleased to have a successful go of it this last weekend.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • KimH
              Iris, I was actually using the paper you suggested (and I was using Galen Berry s choice as well). I think my problem was not covering the paper properly with
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 26, 2013
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                Iris,

                I was actually using the paper you suggested (and I was using Galen Berry's choice as well). I think my problem was not covering the paper properly with the alum (i.e. going TOO fast) and not letting it dry long enough. Now, I'm going to prep the paper the day before - when I mix the carageenan. For some reason, I had it in my head to wait the day of to prep the paper. I appreciate your tips (and anyone else's!) - because I do put them into practice to see what works for me. The Talas paper did marble beautifully - when I had it properly alummed and dried.
                THANKS!!


                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                >
                > If you use a "too buffered" with calcium carbonate paper, no amount of alum will help!
                >
                > I alum and hang two together, BACK TO BACK with alumed sides out, on a line, tile they are dry. Usually the next morning. Then I stack, and use three days to a week later. If dry, and kept under 50% humidity, they can last literally for years this way and not lose the alum effect. Can't be a buffered paper though, they just don't tend to work, paint comes off in streaks as you describe, a total mess.
                >
                > They went and ruined all the darned paper for us!
                >
                > Iris Nevins
                > www.marblingpaper.com
              • MH
                Very good. Good luck and let us know how it goes. --Marc ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 26, 2013
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                  Very good. Good luck and let us know how it goes. --Marc


                  On Mar 26, 2013, at 2:21 PM, KimH wrote:

                  > Thanks Marc, this sounds very similar to what I was doing but takes it a bit further. I'm going to try this (going over the sheet a second time, putting alum sides together - love this, and letting it sit overnight between the boards). I think going these extra few steps will fix my problems.
                  > THANKS!
                  >
                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, MH <bannerworks@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi,
                  > >
                  > > When I apply alum, I do it as you describe. Then I go over the sheet again, this time from top to bottom. This evens out any streaks caused by the first application. Then I lay two sheets together, alummed faces touching. I then put this pair of sheets between boards, building a stack. When I've alummed all my sheets, I put heavy weights on top of the board/paper stack and let it sit overnight. The next day, the paper is flat and dry (or very nearly so) and I have no problem with the paint coming off or with streaks. Hope this helps.
                  > >
                  > > --Marc Horovitz
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Mar 25, 2013, at 1:08 PM, KimH wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Hi,
                  > > >
                  > > > I am a newbie who is getting much better at marbling. I am having a slight issue with the paint not staying on the paper. I think it is either the (alum-ed) paper was not completely dry (the paint washed off) or I had small streaks where the alum didn't get (small streaks of paint came of completely on the edges). I have a couple of questions. I used a flat sponge to put the alum on in overlapping strokes from left to right. Do I just need to be more careful when covering the paper, or would a mister work better than a sponge? Would that help for those edges I sometimes miss? How about sitting time for the alum-ed paper? I put it between boards and let it sit for about a half-hour or more. Should I take the paper out at some point and let it completely dry, or should the half hour under the boards be adequate?
                  > > >
                  > > > I should note that most of my marbling did take, and I was extremely pleased to have a successful go of it this last weekend.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • George Reynolds
                  Well I use a slightly different approach which works every time. I often use Canson 140 lb Watercolor Aquarelle. You can get it in packs of 30 sheets for $1
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 26, 2013
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                    Well I use a slightly different approach which works every time. I often use Canson 140 lb Watercolor Aquarelle. You can get it in packs of 30 sheets for $1 per sheet and Michaels has been selling them 1/2 price lately. But I use the same approach for all paper. Soooo for the Alum I lay it flat on a table and mist it quite thoroughly and wipe over it from top to bottom with a sponge that I use only for Alum and keep it sealed so it stays wet. Then I hang the paper to dry often with heavy paper clips on the bottom so it dries flat. This takes about an hour in my basement. Then I put it under some weighted boards (with other dried Alumed paper) so it gets very flat. I have used paper that has been stored for weeks and it works fine. Try to have a light opposite where you are working so you can see any places the wiping missed and make sure those spots are covered.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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