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Re: Marbling in Western Australia

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  • Marared9
    Vesile, I also use pigments from Ayan Ebru, but never with alum. When I learned marbling in Istanbul we used the Ayan Ebru pigments with no preparation for
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 3, 2013
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      Vesile,

      I also use pigments from Ayan Ebru, but never with alum. When I learned marbling in Istanbul we used the Ayan Ebru pigments with no preparation for the paper. We also did not rinse papers. I don't use the Ayan Ebru pigments on fabric, and the Turkish marblers I've worked with don't either. Do they bond to the fabric well enough that you can wash the scarves? I have always assumed they would not.

      At the end of Ramadan I spoke with a marbler from Uskudar who said that she uses Pebeo Marbling paints on fabric. Her marbled scarves were bright and beautiful. One of my Turkish friends and I had been searching for alternate marbling paints for fabric that we could get in Turkey, and after trying various ones and importing a few from the US we settled on these. I have used a variety of different types of paint for marbling on fabric in Turkey and the US, and I really like the way the Pebeo paints give an even color on both sides of the fabric. I marbled some sample fabrics in Istanbul in September with the Pebeo marbling paints and carageenan from Ayan Ebru and they turned out quite nicely. Unfortunately the Pebeo marbling paints aren't available in the US, but I did find some Australian suppliers, so perhaps you can get them there. I brought mine back from Istanbul.

      I strongly prefer Ayan Ebru pigments for marbling on paper, but I'm skeptical about them for fabrics. If you are having good results with colorfastness and washability I would like to know.

      Also, I agree with the previous poster that it's important to clean the size thoroughly. Are you using oxgall with the pigments? I have had problems with polluted size in the past as well, and I end up having to throw it out. You can get interesting effects by sprinkling OxyClean or spraying hairspray or olive oil over the pigments or adding turpentine, but all of that will pollute the size, so I never do any of that until I'm done with all the marbling I want to do. When the size has been polluted by things like this I do sometimes get weird effects like the stars you are talking about.

      Also, what are you using to drop the pigments onto the size? Rose and horsehair brushes? If you are using these, you need to be sure that they are completely clean when you start to marble, with nothing else in them (no soap or acrylic paint or alcohol or anything else on them). I only rinse mine with water when I am done marbling. Also, all the combs and styli need to be completely clean. If you aren't sure whether your tools are clean, you can wash them with water, cleanse them with rubbing alcohol, and then rinse them again so nothing stays on them but water. All of my tools for use with the pigments stay separate from any tools used with any other kind of paints. I think I'm overly particular about this, but I've had tanks of size ruined by pollution from the tools before, so I'm cautious.

      I also use a large tank made from plywood. I line it with pond liner plastic. My tank is about 2-3 cm larger than the scarves I marble on all sides. That way if I don't get a scarf down exactly straight it doesn't run into one of the sides.

      Hope that helps.

      Suzanne

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "yilmazve" wrote:
      >
      > Hello to all dedicated and hardworking marblers,
      > First of all I wish you all a very happy new year with lots of good results in marbling. I am originally from Turkey. We moved to Western Australia from Istanbul about 5 months ago. I do marbling here using natural pigments from Ayan Ebru. Nowadays I am trying to have a marbling tank done for marbling silk scarves. I will have it done stainless steel like my paper marbling tray. However my concern is about the size of it. People who I got into touch told me that the most popular scarf size here in Australia is 160x28 cm. So, may I list my questions down in case you would like to guide this young marbler through the rocky way of marbling.
      > 1. If I aim to marble silk scarves which are 160x28 cm wide, what is the best size for the tank? Shall I have the tank slightly larger as we do in paper marbling?
      > 2. When I want to marble fabric, first attempt comes out very beautifully. Paint spreads nicely and size works wonderfully. Then I lay the sheet of fabric on the size, I take it out and rinse it and I clean the surface of the size with newspaper. However when I try to drop paint on the size for the second fabric the drops don't spread, they form stars. It seems like the first marbling ruins and spoils my size. Does it happen to you too? I believe it happens because of the alum. I don't know what to do about it? Any suggestions?
      > I will be very happy if you can help me with these.
      > Thank you very much:)
      > Vesile
      > Mandurah Marbling
      > www.marblingart.com.au
      >
    • yilmazve
      Hi George, Thank you very much for your reply. Yesterday I went to steel fabrication companies and they asked for AUD $ 410 for two trays: 50x70 and 160x28.
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
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        Hi George,
        Thank you very much for your reply.
        Yesterday I went to steel fabrication companies and they asked for AUD $ 410 for two trays: 50x70 and 160x28. That is a bit expensive for me I will make my husband build something for me like you did. Epoxy is a great idea, I heard about it but I haven't used it. So it will be nice to try. I also loved the rubber stopper idea. You are right about ghost image.Sometimes I just do new paper marbling design on it. Regarding the roller, I am curious about use of it. Every bit of information is very valuable. Would you please explain that as well?
        Cheers
        Vesile


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, George Reynolds wrote:
        >
        > I built a tray for marbling scarves out of 1/2 inch plywood and coated the inside with 2 coats of epoxy over fiberglass. I actually don't think the fiberglass was necessary as the epoxy dries very hard but it came as a kit so I used it and it works very well. It's not very heavy and I can carry it outside to wash it out. Also I drilled a hole and put a small dish drain in one corner that takes a rubber stopper. When I'm done I pull the stopper and drain the size. Here is a link to a picture of it
        >
        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/georger1998/7943483344/
        >
        > If you do this install the drain before you apply the epoxy so it gets sealed in the tray.
        >
        > Finally you MUST skim the size a couple times after each scarf with newspaper to clean the surface. I have seen the the problem you are talking about when I don't clean the surface. However the ghost pattern you get after pulling the scarf is sometimes more interesting than the original. I frequently marble paper with the ghost image and use it in other projects.
        > George
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • yilmazve
        Hi Suzanne, Thank you for all explanations and info. First of all it is right that Turkish marblers don t treat the paper with alum and they don t rinse.
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
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          Hi Suzanne,
          Thank you for all explanations and info. First of all it is right that Turkish marblers don't treat the paper with alum and they don't rinse. That's how I learnt form my teachers.
          I used Ayan Ebru pigments when I marbled fabric. In order to try it for the first time, I had a cotton sheet which is cut into rectangles. The paint transferred there but with little tiny gaps like it has been punched with pins. I probably used too much alum and that ruined my size. Because I also didn't like the pattern on the size. I mean it wasn't smooth either. On the other hand when I used a chiffon kind of fabric which was very thin and transparent, all the paint transferred very beautifully without any problem. It looks very nice. That encourages me to do silk marbling with Ayan Ebru pigments. I washed them, too. They didn't lose any color.
          I tried Pebeo Marbling Paints however I didn't enjoy them much. Because I like the way drops spread with Ayan Ebru Pigments, quickly and just right size. However Pebeo spreads a lot, no matter how tiny I drop, it opens in big blobs. On the contrary, sometimes they spread too slowly that takes my enthusiasm away. I don't like waiting.
          I use ox-gall and after reading Galen's reply I figured out why the problems occurred on my tank. Of course I will keep in mind to clean my horsehair and rose branch brushes. I never used acrylic but I am very curious about them. So after reading the messages and having enough confidence I will try them as well. I will certainly share the results with you. I am thankful that you are around. I love this group:)
          Take care
          Regards
          Vesile

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Marared9" wrote:
          >
          > Vesile,
          >
          > I also use pigments from Ayan Ebru, but never with alum. When I learned marbling in Istanbul we used the Ayan Ebru pigments with no preparation for the paper. We also did not rinse papers. I don't use the Ayan Ebru pigments on fabric, and the Turkish marblers I've worked with don't either. Do they bond to the fabric well enough that you can wash the scarves? I have always assumed they would not.
          >
          > At the end of Ramadan I spoke with a marbler from Uskudar who said that she uses Pebeo Marbling paints on fabric. Her marbled scarves were bright and beautiful. One of my Turkish friends and I had been searching for alternate marbling paints for fabric that we could get in Turkey, and after trying various ones and importing a few from the US we settled on these. I have used a variety of different types of paint for marbling on fabric in Turkey and the US, and I really like the way the Pebeo paints give an even color on both sides of the fabric. I marbled some sample fabrics in Istanbul in September with the Pebeo marbling paints and carageenan from Ayan Ebru and they turned out quite nicely. Unfortunately the Pebeo marbling paints aren't available in the US, but I did find some Australian suppliers, so perhaps you can get them there. I brought mine back from Istanbul.
          >
          > I strongly prefer Ayan Ebru pigments for marbling on paper, but I'm skeptical about them for fabrics. If you are having good results with colorfastness and washability I would like to know.
          >
          > Also, I agree with the previous poster that it's important to clean the size thoroughly. Are you using oxgall with the pigments? I have had problems with polluted size in the past as well, and I end up having to throw it out. You can get interesting effects by sprinkling OxyClean or spraying hairspray or olive oil over the pigments or adding turpentine, but all of that will pollute the size, so I never do any of that until I'm done with all the marbling I want to do. When the size has been polluted by things like this I do sometimes get weird effects like the stars you are talking about.
          >
          > Also, what are you using to drop the pigments onto the size? Rose and horsehair brushes? If you are using these, you need to be sure that they are completely clean when you start to marble, with nothing else in them (no soap or acrylic paint or alcohol or anything else on them). I only rinse mine with water when I am done marbling. Also, all the combs and styli need to be completely clean. If you aren't sure whether your tools are clean, you can wash them with water, cleanse them with rubbing alcohol, and then rinse them again so nothing stays on them but water. All of my tools for use with the pigments stay separate from any tools used with any other kind of paints. I think I'm overly particular about this, but I've had tanks of size ruined by pollution from the tools before, so I'm cautious.
          >
          > I also use a large tank made from plywood. I line it with pond liner plastic. My tank is about 2-3 cm larger than the scarves I marble on all sides. That way if I don't get a scarf down exactly straight it doesn't run into one of the sides.
          >
          > Hope that helps.
          >
          > Suzanne
          >
          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "yilmazve" wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello to all dedicated and hardworking marblers,
          > > First of all I wish you all a very happy new year with lots of good results in marbling. I am originally from Turkey. We moved to Western Australia from Istanbul about 5 months ago. I do marbling here using natural pigments from Ayan Ebru. Nowadays I am trying to have a marbling tank done for marbling silk scarves. I will have it done stainless steel like my paper marbling tray. However my concern is about the size of it. People who I got into touch told me that the most popular scarf size here in Australia is 160x28 cm. So, may I list my questions down in case you would like to guide this young marbler through the rocky way of marbling.
          > > 1. If I aim to marble silk scarves which are 160x28 cm wide, what is the best size for the tank? Shall I have the tank slightly larger as we do in paper marbling?
          > > 2. When I want to marble fabric, first attempt comes out very beautifully. Paint spreads nicely and size works wonderfully. Then I lay the sheet of fabric on the size, I take it out and rinse it and I clean the surface of the size with newspaper. However when I try to drop paint on the size for the second fabric the drops don't spread, they form stars. It seems like the first marbling ruins and spoils my size. Does it happen to you too? I believe it happens because of the alum. I don't know what to do about it? Any suggestions?
          > > I will be very happy if you can help me with these.
          > > Thank you very much:)
          > > Vesile
          > > Mandurah Marbling
          > > www.marblingart.com.au
          > >
          >
        • George Reynolds
          The roller looking thing toward the near end is just a dowel I use to shorten the tray for smaller scarves. It saves a bit on paint. It turned out that it
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
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            The roller looking thing toward the near end is just a dowel I use to shorten the tray for smaller scarves. It saves a bit on paint. It turned out that it helps collect the paint when I am skimming the surface with newspaper and because its round it does a good job of directing the paint to the bottom of the tray. The drain and its stopper are between the dowel and the end of the tray so the rakes and combs don't hit them as I work.
            George
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