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Re: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose

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  • Sohail Akhtar
    hi. i m sohail from Karachi Pakistan.  i use textile gum called ALCO for sizing(water for marbling) i use one tablespoon in two litre water then mix it.
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 20, 2012
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      hi. i m sohail from Karachi Pakistan.  i use textile gum called "ALCO" for sizing(water for marbling) i use one tablespoon in two litre water then mix it. leave it for half an hour then u can use. bye


      ________________________________
      From: kathrynfanelli <kathrynfanelli@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 10:16 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose


       
      Greetings all,

      Over the summer I purchased a large quantity of methyl cel from Talas not realizing it was a different form of MC. I normally use the ProChem methyl cel M112 which is the type that uses ammonia & vinegar. It also sets up in an hour so it's much faster than the Talas brand which says in their instruction takes 3 hours. I was unable to get answers as to the best way to prepare the Talas methyl cel for marbling by phoning them.

      I am in the middle of preparing it at the moment but because I have children and an interrupted day, I must leave the studio with my 5 gallons unsure of what to do.

      If there is anyone with advice on preparing please reply.

      I mixed 17.5 TBS to 5 gal room temp water using an electric paint mixer wand.

      Thanks for your help!

      Kathryn




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Aaron Salik
      Hi Kathryn, After the recent exchange of messages on the list, one member Sue Cole was nice enough to volunteer her time to evaluate and come up with
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 20, 2012
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        Hi Kathryn,

        After the recent exchange of messages on the list, one member Sue Cole was
        nice enough to volunteer her time to evaluate and come up with instructions
        for our methyl cellulose.

        As mentioned before, instructions are nothing more than a starting point,
        as people have great preferences for how they like their materials
        prepared. This is what Sue provided in her findings:

        Company

        Name

        CAS#

        Price per 1#

        Concentration + Ammonia?

        Talas

        Culminal MC

        9004-67-5

        $14.50

        6 Tbsp/ gallon water no

        Roger George Rentals

        Hydroxypropyl MC

        9004-65-3

        $15.00

        6 Tbsp/ gallon water no

        Dharma Trading

        Hydroxypropyl MC

        9004-65-3

        $22.50

        4 Tbsp/ gallon water yes

        Pro Chem

        Hydroxypropyl MC

        9004-65-3

        $24.50

        4 Tbsp/ gallon water yes

        Earth Guild

        unknown

        unknown

        $25.40

        4 Tbsp/ gallon water yes



        I had good success with the Talas MC, but you DO need to let it set for
        awhile to thicken. It does not need ammonia or vinegar. I used very hot
        water and a stick blender to blend it, then reblended it every so often
        over an hour, then let it sit overnight to clear and thicken. You may not
        need to let it sit that long, but that�s what I did. You could also use a
        whisk, but the stick blender or drill blender for larger amounts is
        easier. If you blend it too long, you will get foam, but it will settle
        down.



        I just left the gallon jars in my sink or counter, and came back every so
        often to stir them. I do this with all of them, because if you don�t, I
        have had the excess mc settle to the bottom of the container and make a
        thick clump.



        I mixed it in three different thicknesses. 4 tablespoons per gallon made a
        thinner gel, 8 tablespoons made a thicker gel, so 6 tablespoons was about
        right for marbling the scarves.

        I used both and got more distinct lines on paper with the thicker one.
        Then I also mixed some as 1 tablespoon per cup to get a thick gel to use
        for paste paper. My scanner is not hooked up right now or I would attach
        photos. I was happy with the papers I made with the Talas and later used
        it for the scarves as well.

        I also use the mc in the thick mixture to add to my �recipe glue� for
        bookbinding purposes.

        I mostly use methyl cellulose for the silk scarves because the carageenan
        breaks down too quickly in the Summer heat here. I do most of them outside
        in a screen tent, then move the tank inside to my second bedroom for the
        Winter.

        I got the chemical names and numbers from the MSDS sheets. I was no t able
        to find on e for EarthGuild.

        The MC�s with the ammonia and vinegar have the advantage of thickening
        immediately � within 15 minutes � but if you are not in a hurry, the other
        ones work fine.

        I have used all of them at different times. All of them have different
        �secret� proprietary ingredients which is why some with the same chemical
        name need ammonia and some don�t.

        Roger George is a movie effects company which I found accidentally, and
        they use the mc to make slime for horror movies, so that if the actors get
        it in their mouths, there is no taste or smell. The person I talked to
        agreed to put 3 pounds in double plastic bags and it fit exactly into a
        flat rate box because I told her I didn�t need the jars and that saved on
        shipping.

        Also, I have not determined whether one is cheaper than the other to use,
        because even though they are priced per pound, they have different degrees
        of density per brand, same with the carageenan, so I would have to measure
        out the tablespoons per pound to determine that, which I have not done yet.

        --
        Regards,
        Aaron Salik

        Talas
        330 Morgan Ave
        Brooklyn NY 11211
        212-219-0770 Phone
        212-219-0735 Fax
        http://talasonline.com
        http://talasonline.blogspot.com/


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • George Reynolds
        Sohail Do you know anything about the source of ALCO? Is it for example derived from tree resin? Thanks George Sent from my iPod
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 20, 2012
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          Sohail
          Do you know anything about the source of ALCO? Is it for example derived from tree resin?
          Thanks
          George


          Sent from my iPod
        • Joan & Bob Newman
          Hi Kathryn, So nice to hear from Pakistan. Peace through marbling. Is there another name for ALCO? ...   hi. i m sohail from Karachi Pakistan.  i use textile
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 21, 2012
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            Hi Kathryn, So nice to hear from Pakistan. Peace through marbling. Is there another name for ALCO?

            ----- Original Message -----
             




            hi. i m sohail from Karachi Pakistan.  i use textile gum called "ALCO" for sizing(water for marbling) i use one tablespoon in two litre water then mix it. leave it for half an hour then u can use. bye

            ________________________________
            From: kathrynfanelli < kathrynfanelli@... >
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 10:16 PM
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose


             
            Greetings all,

            Over the summer I purchased a large quantity of methyl cel from Talas not realizing it was a different form of MC. I normally use the ProChem methyl cel M112 which is the type that uses ammonia & vinegar. It also sets up in an hour so it's much faster than the Talas brand which says in their instruction takes 3 hours. I was unable to get answers as to the best way to prepare the Talas methyl cel for marbling by phoning them.

            I am in the middle of preparing it at the moment but because I have children and an interrupted day, I must leave the studio with my 5 gallons unsure of what to do.

            If there is anyone with advice on preparing please reply.

            I mixed 17.5 TBS to 5 gal room temp water using an electric paint mixer wand.

            Thanks for your help!

            Kathryn

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kathryn fanelli
            Hello Joan & Bob, I am unfamiliar with ALCO. Perhaps the gentleman from Pakistan will be able to help you. Best,   Kathryn  ________________________________
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 21, 2012
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              Hello Joan & Bob,

              I am unfamiliar with ALCO. Perhaps the gentleman from Pakistan will be able to help you.

              Best,
               
              Kathryn 





              ________________________________
              From: Joan & Bob Newman <rfnewman1@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:44 AM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose


               
              Hi Kathryn, So nice to hear from Pakistan. Peace through marbling. Is there another name for ALCO?

              ----- Original Message -----
               

              hi. i m sohail from Karachi Pakistan.  i use textile gum called "ALCO" for sizing(water for marbling) i use one tablespoon in two litre water then mix it. leave it for half an hour then u can use. bye

              ________________________________
              From: kathrynfanelli < kathrynfanelli@... >
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 10:16 PM
              Subject: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose

               
              Greetings all,

              Over the summer I purchased a large quantity of methyl cel from Talas not realizing it was a different form of MC. I normally use the ProChem methyl cel M112 which is the type that uses ammonia & vinegar. It also sets up in an hour so it's much faster than the Talas brand which says in their instruction takes 3 hours. I was unable to get answers as to the best way to prepare the Talas methyl cel for marbling by phoning them.

              I am in the middle of preparing it at the moment but because I have children and an interrupted day, I must leave the studio with my 5 gallons unsure of what to do.

              If there is anyone with advice on preparing please reply.

              I mixed 17.5 TBS to 5 gal room temp water using an electric paint mixer wand.

              Thanks for your help!

              Kathryn

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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