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  • anthonianthonianthoni
    Well then, may know the titles of the books? Regards Anthony
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 12 9:36 AM
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      Well then, may know the titles of the books?
      Regards
      Anthony

      "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear sirs
      >
      > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
      >
      > regards Vito
      >
      > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
      >
      > info@...
      >
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
      > >
      > > Susanne Krause
      > >
      >
    • Papier-Royal
      Here you ll find everything you need to know to get started written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM read please about the famous
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 12 10:27 AM
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        Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
        written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel

        http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM

        read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)

        greetings

        Vito

        https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper





        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
        > Regards
        > Anthony
        >
        > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Dear sirs
        > >
        > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
        > >
        > > regards Vito
        > >
        > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
        > >
        > > info@
        > >
        > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
        > > >
        > > > Susanne Krause
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Cynthia Eaton
        This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation available? I m very interested on this thread. Thanks ... [Non-text portions of this message
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 12 11:35 AM
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          This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
          available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
          On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          >
          > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
          > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
          >
          > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
          >
          > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
          >
          > greetings
          >
          > Vito
          >
          > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
          >
          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
          > <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
          > > Regards
          > > Anthony
          > >
          > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Dear sirs
          > > >
          > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
          > Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
          > information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
          > worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
          > 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
          > good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
          > > >
          > > > regards Vito
          > > >
          > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
          > > >
          > > > info@
          > > >
          > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
          > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
          > books. Again, they should know better.
          > > > >
          > > > > Susanne Krause
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • D or Jer Guffey
          copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed! d.guffey ... From:
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 12 12:09 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to
            English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!

            d.guffey

            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
            Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
            To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story

            > This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
            > available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
            > On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
            >
            >> **
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
            >> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
            >>
            >> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
            >>
            >> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
            >>
            >> greetings
            >>
            >> Vito
            >>
            >> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
            >>
            >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
            >> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
            >> >
            >> > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
            >> > Regards
            >> > Anthony
            >> >
            >> > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > > Dear sirs
            >> > >
            >> > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
            >> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and
            >> this
            >> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence.
            >> I
            >> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the
            >> late
            >> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
            >> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
            >> > >
            >> > > regards Vito
            >> > >
            >> > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
            >> > >
            >> > > info@
            >> > >
            >> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
            >> wrote:
            >> > > >
            >> > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
            >> books. Again, they should know better.
            >> > > >
            >> > > > Susanne Krause
            >> > > >
            >> > >
            >> >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Prepress
            Where are still secrets left? Ludwig Buntpapierer ___________________________________ Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition 310.217.0400
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 12 12:11 PM
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              Where are still secrets left?

              Ludwig

              Buntpapierer
              ___________________________________
              Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
              310.217.0400
              www.Handpresse.com
              www.KrauseIntaglio.com
              -------------------------------------------------------------






              On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:

              > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
              > Italian to
              > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
              >
              > d.guffey
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------
              > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
              > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
              > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
              >
              >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
              >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
              >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
              >> wrote:
              >>
              >>> **
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
              >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
              >>>
              >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
              >>>
              >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
              >>>
              >>> greetings
              >>>
              >>> Vito
              >>>
              >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
              >>>
              >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
              >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
              >>>> Regards
              >>>> Anthony
              >>>>
              >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
              >>>> wrote:
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Dear sirs
              >>>>>
              >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
              >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
              >>> and
              >>> this
              >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
              >>> existence.
              >>> I
              >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
              >>> the
              >>> late
              >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
              >>> I had
              >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> regards Vito
              >>>>>
              >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
              >>>>>
              >>>>> info@
              >>>>>
              >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
              >>>>> <studio@>
              >>> wrote:
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
              >>>>>> the
              >>> books. Again, they should know better.
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Susanne Krause
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Papier-Royal
              ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 ) That s all ...have you all a fine job Vito
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 12 12:58 PM
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                ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                That's all ...have you all a fine job

                Vito


                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                >
                > Where are still secrets left?
                >
                > Ludwig
                >
                > Buntpapierer
                > ___________________________________
                > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                > 310.217.0400
                > www.Handpresse.com
                > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                > -------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                >
                > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                > > Italian to
                > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                > >
                > > d.guffey
                > >
                > > --------------------------------------------------
                > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                > >
                > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                > >> wrote:
                > >>
                > >>> **
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                > >>>
                > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                > >>>
                > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                > >>>
                > >>> greetings
                > >>>
                > >>> Vito
                > >>>
                > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                > >>>
                > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                > >>>> Regards
                > >>>> Anthony
                > >>>>
                > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                > >>>> wrote:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> Dear sirs
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                > >>> and
                > >>> this
                > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                > >>> existence.
                > >>> I
                > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                > >>> the
                > >>> late
                > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                > >>> I had
                > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> regards Vito
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> info@
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                > >>>>> <studio@>
                > >>> wrote:
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                > >>>>>> the
                > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                > >>>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> ------------------------------------
                > >>
                > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • D or Jer Guffey
                If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won t get the same fine lines, but you can
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 12 1:04 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.

                  d.guffey


                  From: Papier-Royal
                  Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story




                  ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                  That's all ...have you all a fine job

                  Vito

                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Where are still secrets left?
                  >
                  > Ludwig
                  >
                  > Buntpapierer
                  > ___________________________________
                  > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                  > 310.217.0400
                  > www.Handpresse.com
                  > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                  > ----------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                  >
                  > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                  > > Italian to
                  > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                  > >
                  > > d.guffey
                  > >
                  > > --------------------------------------------------
                  > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                  > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                  > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                  > >
                  > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                  > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                  > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                  > >> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>> **
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                  > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                  > >>>
                  > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                  > >>>
                  > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                  > >>>
                  > >>> greetings
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Vito
                  > >>>
                  > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                  > >>>
                  > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                  > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                  > >>>> Regards
                  > >>>> Anthony
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                  > >>>> wrote:
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> Dear sirs
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                  > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                  > >>> and
                  > >>> this
                  > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                  > >>> existence.
                  > >>> I
                  > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                  > >>> the
                  > >>> late
                  > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                  > >>> I had
                  > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> regards Vito
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> info@
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                  > >>>>> <studio@>
                  > >>> wrote:
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                  > >>>>>> the
                  > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------------------
                  > >>
                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Papier-Royal
                  Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/ no oil paints, bever used. The materials used are the same as
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 12 3:37 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr

                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/

                    no oil paints, bever used.


                    The materials used are the same as in 1600
                    Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                    The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                    that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                    Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm

                    Vito





                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                    >
                    > d.guffey
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Papier-Royal
                    > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                    > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                    >
                    > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                    >
                    > Vito
                    >
                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Where are still secrets left?
                    > >
                    > > Ludwig
                    > >
                    > > Buntpapierer
                    > > ___________________________________
                    > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                    > > 310.217.0400
                    > > www.Handpresse.com
                    > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                    > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                    > > > Italian to
                    > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                    > > >
                    > > > d.guffey
                    > > >
                    > > > --------------------------------------------------
                    > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                    > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                    > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                    > > >
                    > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                    > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                    > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                    > > >> wrote:
                    > > >>
                    > > >>> **
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                    > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>> greetings
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>> Vito
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                    > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                    > > >>>>
                    > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                    > > >>>> Regards
                    > > >>>> Anthony
                    > > >>>>
                    > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                    > > >>>> wrote:
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                    > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                    > > >>> and
                    > > >>> this
                    > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                    > > >>> existence.
                    > > >>> I
                    > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                    > > >>> the
                    > > >>> late
                    > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                    > > >>> I had
                    > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>> regards Vito
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>> info@
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                    > > >>>>> <studio@>
                    > > >>> wrote:
                    > > >>>>>>
                    > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                    > > >>>>>> the
                    > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                    > > >>>>>>
                    > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                    > > >>>>>>
                    > > >>>>>
                    > > >>>>
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> ------------------------------------
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Nancy Akerly
                    Gorgeous papers! Sent from my iPad Liberty Grove Paper Arts http://web.me.com/nakerly/ ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 12 3:45 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gorgeous papers!

                      Sent from my iPad
                      Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                      http://web.me.com/nakerly/

                      On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr
                      >
                      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                      >
                      > no oil paints, bever used.
                      >
                      > The materials used are the same as in 1600
                      > Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                      > The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                      > that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                      > Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm
                      >
                      > Vito
                      >
                      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                      > >
                      > > d.guffey
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: Papier-Royal
                      > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                      > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                      > >
                      > > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                      > >
                      > > Vito
                      > >
                      > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Where are still secrets left?
                      > > >
                      > > > Ludwig
                      > > >
                      > > > Buntpapierer
                      > > > ___________________________________
                      > > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                      > > > 310.217.0400
                      > > > www.Handpresse.com
                      > > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                      > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                      > > > > Italian to
                      > > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > d.guffey
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --------------------------------------------------
                      > > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                      > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                      > > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                      > > > >
                      > > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                      > > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                      > > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                      > > > >> wrote:
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>> **
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                      > > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>> greetings
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>> Vito
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                      > > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                      > > > >>>>
                      > > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                      > > > >>>> Regards
                      > > > >>>> Anthony
                      > > > >>>>
                      > > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                      > > > >>>> wrote:
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                      > > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                      > > > >>> and
                      > > > >>> this
                      > > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                      > > > >>> existence.
                      > > > >>> I
                      > > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                      > > > >>> the
                      > > > >>> late
                      > > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                      > > > >>> I had
                      > > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>> regards Vito
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>> info@
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                      > > > >>>>> <studio@>
                      > > > >>> wrote:
                      > > > >>>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                      > > > >>>>>> the
                      > > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                      > > > >>>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                      > > > >>>>>>
                      > > > >>>>>
                      > > > >>>>
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> ------------------------------------
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • jemiljan
                      Dear Vito, The notion that Macé Ruette invented marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various authorities or
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 12 6:31 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Vito,

                        The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.

                        Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.

                        Best Regards,

                        Jake Benson


                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                        > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                        >
                        > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                        >
                        > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                        >
                        > greetings
                        >
                        > Vito
                        >
                        > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                        > > Regards
                        > > Anthony
                        > >
                        > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear sirs
                        > > >
                        > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                        > > >
                        > > > regards Vito
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                        > > >
                        > > > info@
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Susanne Krause
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Cynthia Eaton
                        Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some phrases are
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 12 8:09 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct
                          translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some
                          phrases are understood to be used traditionaly in a specific order. Hence
                          the use of "to and fro"as an example. And as an aside I will note that
                          there is an association between "go and come", your Turkish translation,
                          and "to and fro" does indeed relate in English. Go and To have a close
                          relation in the sense that they indicate a sense of moving away in
                          direction, Come and Fro share relation in the sense of a return or arrival
                          from afar. Since semantics are becoming quite the issue in this thread I
                          suppose I could have just started off using "come and go" but it didn't
                          come to mind, pardon me.
                          On Mar 12, 2012 6:33 PM, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Vito,
                          >
                          > The notion that Mac�� Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific
                          patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various
                          "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown
                          to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard
                          Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they
                          were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe,
                          Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important
                          bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France,
                          but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic
                          combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish
                          Ruette's reputation.
                          >
                          > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have
                          an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on
                          translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word
                          "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the
                          mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable
                          examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence
                          confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th
                          century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm
                          that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the
                          art marbling.
                          >
                          > Best Regards,
                          >
                          > Jake Benson
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                          > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                          > >
                          > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                          > >
                          > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac��� Ruette ( XVII century)
                          > >
                          > > greetings
                          > >
                          > > Vito
                          > >
                          > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                          <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                          > > > Regards
                          > > > Anthony
                          > > >
                          > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                          wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Dear sirs
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                          Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
                          information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
                          worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
                          70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                          good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > regards Vito
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                          > > > >
                          > > > > info@
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                          wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                          the books. Again, they should know better.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Susanne Krause
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Papier-Royal
                          Dear Jake Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 13 1:25 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Jake

                            Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read various posts that gossiped inappropriately after visiting my site section History.
                            I honestly do not like the bickering. Some members of this beautifull group have a little exaggeration in their writings. Now I'm going through my papers, it's better, because between the saying and doing tehre is a lot of difference.
                            " Storia magistra vitae" ( The story is teacher of life,said ancient Romans ) but the tone of "Professor" used by some members of group to denigrate the work of others, it seemed rather exaggerated and frankly not at all polite.

                            The True Story? Posterity will judge it to.

                            kind regards
                            Vito

                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear Vito,
                            >
                            > The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.
                            >
                            > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.
                            >
                            > Best Regards,
                            >
                            > Jake Benson
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                            > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                            > >
                            > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                            > >
                            > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                            > >
                            > > greetings
                            > >
                            > > Vito
                            > >
                            > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                            > > > Regards
                            > > > Anthony
                            > > >
                            > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Dear sirs
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > regards Vito
                            > > > >
                            > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                            > > > >
                            > > > > info@
                            > > > >
                            > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Susanne Krause
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
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