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Early Spanish papers

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  • anthonianthonianthoni
    If you look at some examples of the early spanish papers, you would find that the shading is quite irregular, much like what we now call a moire. Now, the
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 7, 2012
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      If you look at some examples of the early spanish papers, you would find that the shading is quite irregular, much like what we now call a moire.
      Now, the pattern that is known as a moire was not invented till a later date, so, how was this effect produced?

      Regards
      Anthony
    • irisnevins
      we d need a time machine to be sure, but I think the early marblers, as for book papers, not eastern art... I think they were pretty slapdash about the whole
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 7, 2012
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        we'd need a time machine to be sure, but I think the early marblers, as for book papers, not eastern art... I think they were pretty slapdash about the whole thing. I know when I was first starting my papers like very early ones were pretty crude. The first binder I sold a stack to, unintentionally, I met him by accident and he heard I marbled and asked to buy ALL I had, sight unseen, he loved them because they looked like early papers. So years later after I got more controlled he asked for an order to look like the old things I did. I had the most horrible time trying to make them look quaint and crude. I concluded that the key was to never clean the size well, so the droplets would be somewhat irregular, and for Spanish, which i tried home alone with no instruction, and my first ones looked like almost moire too....but without folding. Just wiggle the paper around rather than go for diagonal shading.

        When I teach, and we do Spanish, people are disappointed in their first efforts, and I tell them that story, about trying to get the authentic early look. I was at first not meticulous at all. Also most "marblers' were not marblers but bookbinders, who would set up now and again when they ran out, and make a batch of their own paper. I doubt highly they considered themselves "Artistes" and would laugh at the concept. Make them quick and dirty so they could get back to binding. This is how I see it from things I have read. This would have been pre-1840 or so, or maybe in even 1820 and on things started to refine and I think that period in Europe 1800-1860 produced the most spectacular papers for bookbinding of all time. After that it became industrialized by the marbling machines, and the big book printing houses, so they needed to keep up with orders. A lot of great patterns fell my the wayside and everything became pretty much that deep red glossy Victorian paper, all machine marbled and polished. Nice, yes... but a certain wildness of spirit in the papers was gone. In my work, I think pre-1860s, that's it. It was the high point of marbling in my opinion. I make my colors to mimic their colors. And the earlier papers are charming. I would like to do a class someday on getting the old authentic look, but doubt anyone would care too much. A few yes, but I fear it is just about lost to time.

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com


        On 03/07/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:

        If you look at some examples of the early spanish papers, you would find that the shading is quite irregular, much like what we now call a moire.
        Now, the pattern that is known as a moire was not invented till a later date, so, how was this effect produced?

        Regards
        Anthony



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      • fritzmiklaf@bezeqint.net
        Keep doing what you re doing Iris - it s great! Yehuda Miklaf Jerusalem fritzmiklaf@bezeqint.net
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 8, 2012
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          Keep doing what you're doing Iris - it's great!



          Yehuda Miklaf

          Jerusalem

          <mailto:fritzmiklaf@...> fritzmiklaf@...

          <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/> www.yehudamiklaf.com





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • anthonianthonianthoni
          Changing the subject slightly, I have been as of late trying to marble moire, but it seems that the folds I make into the paper tend to flatten out as I wave
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 8, 2012
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            Changing the subject slightly, I have been as of late trying to marble moire, but it seems that the folds I make into the paper tend to flatten out as I wave the paper,otherwise they tend to make only a little wiggle in the lines of shading, not the full bends and twists I have seen- any suggestions?
          • irisnevins
            Moire is best learned in person or by watching. maynbe it will be my next youtube video. How to fold and lay it down. Some feel it works better on a damp
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 8, 2012
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              Moire is best learned in person or by watching. maynbe it will be my next youtube video. How to fold and lay it down. Some feel it works better on a damp paper. I find it doesn't matter but if you use a dry paper you need to, after folding, let it sit easily a half hour, maybe more. That is to get it flat enough to lay without it being unmanageable. if damp, I fold and lay under a few heavy book board cardboards, and do the pattern. the folds will have relaxed enough by the time the pattern is done, usually. Wait to long and I think what you describe happens, or also if you lay it under heavy wooden boards, so maybe your folds relaxed too much. In any case this is not easy, and best shown by someone.

              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com



              On 03/08/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:

              Changing the subject slightly, I have been as of late trying to marble moire, but it seems that the folds I make into the paper tend to flatten out as I wave the paper,otherwise they tend to make only a little wiggle in the lines of shading, not the full bends and twists I have seen- any suggestions?



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