Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric

Expand Messages
  • irisnevins
    No you need alum unless you use high quality inkjet paper and use the coated side... you get two chances to figure out which side is coated, you can t see it.
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 6, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      No you need alum unless you use high quality inkjet paper and use the coated side... you get two chances to figure out which side is coated, you can't see it.
      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com

      On 03/06/12, Joan<rfnewman1@...> wrote:

      Iris, am I right in assuming that you do not need to alum paper or
      cotton if you use acrylics.Joan

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
      >
      > To make life easier, I swear by the cheap paints in Walmart or big
      craft stores, the Ceram Coat or Folk Art Brand. Not all colors or
      batches always work, just find a few that do. they are under a dollar a
      bottle. I use my rotten lousy not supposed to marble with hot tap water.
      No additives, chemicals, just seaweed. I don't pre-wash, never heard of
      synthrapol in my early days, never heard of a thing beyond dispersant,
      paint, size, rotten hard water. Distilled water, I only use it to make
      paints for sale because it is expected. I have run out of paints for my
      own use, and made paints for myself, same formulas, using the rotten
      hard water and they were BETTER. Still I use only distilled for sale,
      because there could be some trouble and we at least can rule out the
      water as an issue. My own bottles... made the same but with tap water. I
      have made size with soft rain water, distilled water, spring water, and
      find no difference except the hard water needs a little more size
      powder.
      >
      > So not knowing rules, I guess I was exempt from these rules, LOL.
      Sometimes I wonder are people selling this stuff and saying you "need"
      it but you don't really? I guess it improves things for some, but for me
      it just complicates things. I heat set once for fabric, since I have to
      iron out the wrinkles on the finished pieces anyway. I have experimented
      with NOT heat setting and it was just as set. So to each his or her own,
      but I'd suggest maybe trying without all the stuff we never even heard
      of 34 years back. All of the long history of marbling too, they only
      used the simplest materials.
      >
      > IrisNevins
      > www.marblingpaper.com
      >
      >
      >
      > On 02/22/12, Deluwiel Xoxdeluwiel1209@... wrote:
      >
      > wow!� I think I've been mixing up and throwing away too much
      size!� I have a tank that's about 18" x 76" and I've been filling it
      with 8 gallons - this brings the level up to about 1.5".� If I only
      put in 4 gals I think I'd only have about 3/4" of size in there... is
      this deep enough?� (I marble silk - my process is pretty much the
      same as the others who have replied except I've found that I don't need
      to soak the fabric in the alum for any length of time, but just dip,
      squeeze out, and dry, then lightly iron to get the creases out). I've
      prewashed and not prewashed; charmeuse silk from Dharma comes out great
      either way.� I've used Golden Acrylics, the Ph. Martin Spectralites,
      and Jacquard opaque and metallic airbrush colors.� For me, some of
      the Spectralite colors seem to be fussy about floating on top of other
      colors so some of them have to be dropped on first; the Goldens all
      float pretty well mixed just with distilled water and their GAC 900 or
      > whatever it's called heat set medium; it's not too often I need a
      dispersant with any of those except the gold and silver metallics which
      need a little nudge.� Same with the Jacquard - for the most part
      theyare easy to work with.� I've had good success with them except
      for the copper - that one just won't float no matter what I do!� Too
      bad because it's really pretty.� Marble, swish in clear water, gently
      squeeze.� Air dry, then heat set (I've used an iron and the dryer and
      both work fine - obviously the dryer is way more efficient!)� I do a
      rinse in just a splash of vinegar in cool water (maybe it's my
      imagination, but I think the vinegar helps bring up the sheen) and then
      hang to dry, final ironing to get all the wrinkles out.� I'm with
      Iris - if you can skip some of the extraneous or unneccessary steps, by
      all means!� My time for marbling is limited so I don't want to waste
      any of it fiddling around with stuff I don't really need to!
      >
      > From: marines bengoa mbengoaduprey@...
      >
      > To: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:41 PM
      > Subject: Re: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
      >
      >
      > �
      > The tank I use for scarves is 17" X 66". It takes 4 gals. of size and
      I can marble about 18 scarves. The one for fabric is 118" X 47". It
      takes 15 gals. of size and I can marble 24 yds. (3 yds. each time). You
      may want to know how I empty the tanks, specially the big one. Each one
      has a faucet.�
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: irisnevins irisnevins@...
      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:54 PM
      > Subject: Re: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
      >
      >
      > �
      > Depends on the sizw of the tank, how thick the size, what is the size
      etc.
      >
      > I do scarves for example on carrageenan, in a 9 foot tank and fit in
      three 90 X 54 silk habotais for each marble. I use about 4-6 gallons of
      size to yield 30-40 scarves. I do this only a few times a year really
      anymore. I use acrylics for these as well. I always have a fair amount
      of dirty size to dispose of but that's how it is, I couldn't marble any
      shallower once it gets down to an inch or so.
      >
      > Hope that helps
      > Iris Nevins
      > www.marblingpaper.com
      >
      > On 02/21/12, kmokrikmokri@... wrote:
      >
      > I'm curious, how many pieces of fabric do you do out of one batch of
      size. I know this varies, but can you give me an approximate count? I
      think that I'm ruining my size really fast.
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, marines bengoa mbengoaduprey@ wrote:
      > >
      > > You are right. Everyone has its own way of working. Like I wrote
      before, I'm a self taught marbler, I'm still learning as it never ends,
      specially through this wonderful group and great and experienced artist
      like you. I have been marbling for 4 years. Marbling is one of so many
      techniques I work with and one of my favorites.
      > >
      > > As for water temperature for alum, maybe since I live in the
      Caribbean, warm tap water is cold for me. I just add alum to water and
      let it sit for a while to soften and then mix it until it
      dissolves.Â
      > >
      > > I use Marbo Gum from Pro Chem for my size. It is more economical
      than caghrageenan, which I have never used and it is made out of algae.
      Price is important for me because I marble yards of fabric. My big tray
      takes about 15 gallons of size for three yards of fabric. This stuff
      works fine. The residue may be a characteristic of this product.
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: irisnevins irisnevins@
      > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:29 PM
      > > Subject: Re: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
      > >
      > >
      > > Â
      > > Hmmm...I have always used hot tap water to dissolve my alum and it
      is usually still warm when I use it, whether fabric or paper. I also
      make wearable silk when I do fabric yet have never had a scaly problem
      with size or residue. Are you using methyl cel or carrageenan? After I
      marble a piece I drop it into a bucket of water and gently swirl it til
      the residue is off and hang it to dry. My silks come out soft, not stiff
      in the end. All I do is line dry them, then iron and package them. I
      skip the dryer, the iron seems to be plenty heat to set anything.
      > >
      > > I was never taught to marble, nor shown how, and made my own way
      with it, maybe I marble all wrong, but every marbler I have known has
      used the hot water to dissolve the alum and most would work with it as
      soon as it dissolved, leaving a warm solution, I have used it cold too
      if I stored it and it worked exactly the same. I try to take the path of
      least resistance is all and try not to complicate things if not needed.
      It seems to work anyway. We all marble differently and whatever works
      for us is best, and what is most comfortable is best for each marbler.
      There really is no right or wrong to it as long as you get the proper
      result. I have tried pre-washing with no different result so stopped.
      The only rinse is after in the bucket of plain old hard tap water. It
      gets all the alum and size off the fabric. 30+ year old pieces show no
      sign of deteriorating, except for the rough housing I tend to give any
      wearable with rough country life and spilling things
      > > on them, I am clumsy for sure! Even considering that, they survived,
      if a bit stained with food, etc. or wood splinters from lugging firewood
      etc, Colors intact. still feel soft after many hand washings and hot hot
      hot irons. Much of it using really crappy cheap acrylics like Folk Art
      Brand and Ceram Coat. Sometimes I am surprised by the durability and the
      fact that the colors stay fresh and bright after many decades.
      > >
      > > Iris Nevins
      > > www.marblingpaper.com
      > >
      > >
      > > On 02/20/12, marines bengoambengoaduprey@ wrote:
      > >
      > > I use syntrapol because I iron the fabric before washing to set the
      paint and I want to make sure the dried size residue (kind of scaly)
      washes off. I have found that there is no need to use hot water with
      alum. As a matter of fact I never read of it. First time ever
      heard.Â
      > >
      > > Â I use hot water only as the last step of the process,
      when I add Milsoft and this is after I have rinsed the fabric. Since I
      do fabrics for garments all this steps are necessary both for cotton and
      silk.Â
      > >
      > > I never wash fabrics before starting because... let's say I trust mu
      supplier when they state their fabrics are PFD.
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: irisnevins irisnevins@
      > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:39 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
      > >
      > >
      > > Â
      > > Not necessarily. I have never ever once washed silks with Synthrapol
      or anything at all, not even rinsed them. Not other fabrics either. I
      have to wonder, since I alum them in a bucket with hot alum water if it
      alums and washes sizing out in one step. I used habotai silks, cotton,
      cheap fake bridesmaid's gown silk, which incidentally took the acrylics
      better than anything and has a lovely sheen. My feeling is that you
      should make your life easy. Try it this way without a pre wash, and do
      it if it works. I started marbling fabric over 30 years ago, before
      there were any instructions. I have never met a fabric I had to wash
      first. I do believe there must be some out there, because people report
      problems, and then success after washing first, so am not denying it. I
      would even recommend it if needed. just saying try it without, if you
      don't have to do it, why bother. I have some apparently odd ways,
      skipping "essential" steps with success, and I kid and
      > > say, no one knew about these essentials yet,. so their laws don't
      apply to me! Seriously, I manage to marble with skipping certain things
      people think are critical. So all I suggest is to make it as
      uncomplicated as possible, it's just more fun that way.
      > >
      > > Yes, you really must iron it flat before marbling. I hang an old
      paper towel roll on a string, attached to my wall, As I iron them, I
      carefully lay them over the roll, one over another, etc. Then they are
      handy right there to be taken off the roll. Sometimes static is a
      problem. You could also hang them from pins on the line until ready to
      use, individually, if static is a problem and they electrify each other
      and stick together.
      > >
      > > Iris Nevins
      > > www.marblingpaper.com
      > >
      > > On 02/20/12, Sue Coleakartisan@ wrote:
      > >
      > > For cotton or silk, you must wash it first, usually with Synthrapol
      to
      > > remove any sizing, then soak it in an alum solution, hang it to dry
      and
      > > iron it. If it has any wrinkles, it won't pick up the paint properly
      > > where it's wrinkled. I know, because I tried to belazy once and
      found out
      > > the hard way.
      > >
      > > I've used both caragheenan and methyl cellulose for fabrics and I
      use
      > > regular acrylic paints, thinned down with water and sometimes a drop
      or two
      > > of either photo flo or acrylic release fluid - both help it spread
      better.
      > > I always test the paint first in a corner of the tank before
      throwing it
      > > over the whole tank to see if it's sinking or not. You only use ox
      gall
      > > with watercolors, not acrylics.
      > >
      > > Dyes, to my knowledge anyway, will not work because they are too
      thin. You
      > > should use them for dyeing, which is what they are made for. I have
      not
      > > tried textile paints, but they might work. Prochem has a whole line
      of
      > > paints for marbling that are ready to use as they come, although I
      have
      > > still had to thin some of them. You will find that different
      pigments have
      > > different spreading rates. The blues especially are fast spreaders.
      The
      > > two colors I have the most problems with are black and red - getting
      them
      > > to look black and red on fabric instead of grey and pink.
      > >
      > > I rinse the fabric after marbling in two buckets of water - swish
      them
      > > around like a dishcloth in the bucket of water, then hang them for
      24 hours
      > > to dry and "set". Some people say to put them in the dryer next for
      about
      > > a half hour to heat set them, then put through a rinse cycle, in the
      dryer
      > > again and iron them. I have not had them fade after doing this.
      > >
      > > hope this is of some help - others may have different opnions. Is
      there
      > > anyone close by you that you can take a class from? I'm mostly self
      taught
      > > and youtube taught because the closest person to me is 6 hours away.
      > > Sue
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Joan Newman
      Thanks for the quick reply. Sent from my iPad ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 6, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks for the quick reply.

        Sent from my iPad

        On Mar 6, 2012, at 8:18 PM, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:

        >
        > No you need alum unless you use high quality inkjet paper and use the coated side... you get two chances to figure out which side is coated, you can't see it.
        > Iris Nevins
        > www.marblingpaper.com
        >
        > On 03/06/12, Joan<rfnewman1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Iris, am I right in assuming that you do not need to alum paper or
        > cotton if you use acrylics.Joan
        >
        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > To make life easier, I swear by the cheap paints in Walmart or big
        > craft stores, the Ceram Coat or Folk Art Brand. Not all colors or
        > batches always work, just find a few that do. they are under a dollar a
        > bottle. I use my rotten lousy not supposed to marble with hot tap water.
        > No additives, chemicals, just seaweed. I don't pre-wash, never heard of
        > synthrapol in my early days, never heard of a thing beyond dispersant,
        > paint, size, rotten hard water. Distilled water, I only use it to make
        > paints for sale because it is expected. I have run out of paints for my
        > own use, and made paints for myself, same formulas, using the rotten
        > hard water and they were BETTER. Still I use only distilled for sale,
        > because there could be some trouble and we at least can rule out the
        > water as an issue. My own bottles... made the same but with tap water. I
        > have made size with soft rain water, distilled water, spring water, and
        > find no difference except the hard water needs a little more size
        > powder.
        > >
        > > So not knowing rules, I guess I was exempt from these rules, LOL.
        > Sometimes I wonder are people selling this stuff and saying you "need"
        > it but you don't really? I guess it improves things for some, but for me
        > it just complicates things. I heat set once for fabric, since I have to
        > iron out the wrinkles on the finished pieces anyway. I have experimented
        > with NOT heat setting and it was just as set. So to each his or her own,
        > but I'd suggest maybe trying without all the stuff we never even heard
        > of 34 years back. All of the long history of marbling too, they only
        > used the simplest materials.
        > >
        > > IrisNevins
        > > www.marblingpaper.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On 02/22/12, Deluwiel Xoxdeluwiel1209@... wrote:
        > >
        > > wow!� I think I've been mixing up and throwing away too much
        > size!� I have a tank that's about 18" x 76" and I've been filling it
        > with 8 gallons - this brings the level up to about 1.5".� If I only
        > put in 4 gals I think I'd only have about 3/4" of size in there... is
        > this deep enough?� (I marble silk - my process is pretty much the
        > same as the others who have replied except I've found that I don't need
        > to soak the fabric in the alum for any length of time, but just dip,
        > squeeze out, and dry, then lightly iron to get the creases out). I've
        > prewashed and not prewashed; charmeuse silk from Dharma comes out great
        > either way.� I've used Golden Acrylics, the Ph. Martin Spectralites,
        > and Jacquard opaque and metallic airbrush colors.� For me, some of
        > the Spectralite colors seem to be fussy about floating on top of other
        > colors so some of them have to be dropped on first; the Goldens all
        > float pretty well mixed just with distilled water and their GAC 900 or
        > > whatever it's called heat set medium; it's not too often I need a
        > dispersant with any of those except the gold and silver metallics which
        > need a little nudge.� Same with the Jacquard - for the most part
        > theyare easy to work with.� I've had good success with them except
        > for the copper - that one just won't float no matter what I do!� Too
        > bad because it's really pretty.� Marble, swish in clear water, gently
        > squeeze.� Air dry, then heat set (I've used an iron and the dryer and
        > both work fine - obviously the dryer is way more efficient!)� I do a
        > rinse in just a splash of vinegar in cool water (maybe it's my
        > imagination, but I think the vinegar helps bring up the sheen) and then
        > hang to dry, final ironing to get all the wrinkles out.� I'm with
        > Iris - if you can skip some of the extraneous or unneccessary steps, by
        > all means!� My time for marbling is limited so I don't want to waste
        > any of it fiddling around with stuff I don't really need to!
        > >
        > > From: marines bengoa mbengoaduprey@...
        > >
        > > To: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:41 PM
        > > Subject: Re: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
        > >
        > >
        > > �
        > > The tank I use for scarves is 17" X 66". It takes 4 gals. of size and
        > I can marble about 18 scarves. The one for fabric is 118" X 47". It
        > takes 15 gals. of size and I can marble 24 yds. (3 yds. each time). You
        > may want to know how I empty the tanks, specially the big one. Each one
        > has a faucet.�
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: irisnevins irisnevins@...
        > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:54 PM
        > > Subject: Re: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
        > >
        > >
        > > �
        > > Depends on the sizw of the tank, how thick the size, what is the size
        > etc.
        > >
        > > I do scarves for example on carrageenan, in a 9 foot tank and fit in
        > three 90 X 54 silk habotais for each marble. I use about 4-6 gallons of
        > size to yield 30-40 scarves. I do this only a few times a year really
        > anymore. I use acrylics for these as well. I always have a fair amount
        > of dirty size to dispose of but that's how it is, I couldn't marble any
        > shallower once it gets down to an inch or so.
        > >
        > > Hope that helps
        > > Iris Nevins
        > > www.marblingpaper.com
        > >
        > > On 02/21/12, kmokrikmokri@... wrote:
        > >
        > > I'm curious, how many pieces of fabric do you do out of one batch of
        > size. I know this varies, but can you give me an approximate count? I
        > think that I'm ruining my size really fast.
        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, marines bengoa mbengoaduprey@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > You are right. Everyone has its own way of working. Like I wrote
        > before, I'm a self taught marbler, I'm still learning as it never ends,
        > specially through this wonderful group and great and experienced artist
        > like you. I have been marbling for 4 years. Marbling is one of so many
        > techniques I work with and one of my favorites.
        > > >
        > > > As for water temperature for alum, maybe since I live in the
        > Caribbean, warm tap water is cold for me. I just add alum to water and
        > let it sit for a while to soften and then mix it until it
        > dissolves.Â
        > > >
        > > > I use Marbo Gum from Pro Chem for my size. It is more economical
        > than caghrageenan, which I have never used and it is made out of algae.
        > Price is important for me because I marble yards of fabric. My big tray
        > takes about 15 gallons of size for three yards of fabric. This stuff
        > works fine. The residue may be a characteristic of this product.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: irisnevins irisnevins@
        > > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:29 PM
        > > > Subject: Re: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Â
        > > > Hmmm...I have always used hot tap water to dissolve my alum and it
        > is usually still warm when I use it, whether fabric or paper. I also
        > make wearable silk when I do fabric yet have never had a scaly problem
        > with size or residue. Are you using methyl cel or carrageenan? After I
        > marble a piece I drop it into a bucket of water and gently swirl it til
        > the residue is off and hang it to dry. My silks come out soft, not stiff
        > in the end. All I do is line dry them, then iron and package them. I
        > skip the dryer, the iron seems to be plenty heat to set anything.
        > > >
        > > > I was never taught to marble, nor shown how, and made my own way
        > with it, maybe I marble all wrong, but every marbler I have known has
        > used the hot water to dissolve the alum and most would work with it as
        > soon as it dissolved, leaving a warm solution, I have used it cold too
        > if I stored it and it worked exactly the same. I try to take the path of
        > least resistance is all and try not to complicate things if not needed.
        > It seems to work anyway. We all marble differently and whatever works
        > for us is best, and what is most comfortable is best for each marbler.
        > There really is no right or wrong to it as long as you get the proper
        > result. I have tried pre-washing with no different result so stopped.
        > The only rinse is after in the bucket of plain old hard tap water. It
        > gets all the alum and size off the fabric. 30+ year old pieces show no
        > sign of deteriorating, except for the rough housing I tend to give any
        > wearable with rough country life and spilling things
        > > > on them, I am clumsy for sure! Even considering that, they survived,
        > if a bit stained with food, etc. or wood splinters from lugging firewood
        > etc, Colors intact. still feel soft after many hand washings and hot hot
        > hot irons. Much of it using really crappy cheap acrylics like Folk Art
        > Brand and Ceram Coat. Sometimes I am surprised by the durability and the
        > fact that the colors stay fresh and bright after many decades.
        > > >
        > > > Iris Nevins
        > > > www.marblingpaper.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On 02/20/12, marines bengoambengoaduprey@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I use syntrapol because I iron the fabric before washing to set the
        > paint and I want to make sure the dried size residue (kind of scaly)
        > washes off. I have found that there is no need to use hot water with
        > alum. As a matter of fact I never read of it. First time ever
        > heard.Â
        > > >
        > > > Â I use hot water only as the last step of the process,
        > when I add Milsoft and this is after I have rinsed the fabric. Since I
        > do fabrics for garments all this steps are necessary both for cotton and
        > silk.Â
        > > >
        > > > I never wash fabrics before starting because... let's say I trust mu
        > supplier when they state their fabrics are PFD.
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: irisnevins irisnevins@
        > > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:39 AM
        > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling cotton fabric
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Â
        > > > Not necessarily. I have never ever once washed silks with Synthrapol
        > or anything at all, not even rinsed them. Not other fabrics either. I
        > have to wonder, since I alum them in a bucket with hot alum water if it
        > alums and washes sizing out in one step. I used habotai silks, cotton,
        > cheap fake bridesmaid's gown silk, which incidentally took the acrylics
        > better than anything and has a lovely sheen. My feeling is that you
        > should make your life easy. Try it this way without a pre wash, and do
        > it if it works. I started marbling fabric over 30 years ago, before
        > there were any instructions. I have never met a fabric I had to wash
        > first. I do believe there must be some out there, because people report
        > problems, and then success after washing first, so am not denying it. I
        > would even recommend it if needed. just saying try it without, if you
        > don't have to do it, why bother. I have some apparently odd ways,
        > skipping "essential" steps with success, and I kid and
        > > > say, no one knew about these essentials yet,. so their laws don't
        > apply to me! Seriously, I manage to marble with skipping certain things
        > people think are critical. So all I suggest is to make it as
        > uncomplicated as possible, it's just more fun that way.
        > > >
        > > > Yes, you really must iron it flat before marbling. I hang an old
        > paper towel roll on a string, attached to my wall, As I iron them, I
        > carefully lay them over the roll, one over another, etc. Then they are
        > handy right there to be taken off the roll. Sometimes static is a
        > problem. You could also hang them from pins on the line until ready to
        > use, individually, if static is a problem and they electrify each other
        > and stick together.
        > > >
        > > > Iris Nevins
        > > > www.marblingpaper.com
        > > >
        > > > On 02/20/12, Sue Coleakartisan@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > For cotton or silk, you must wash it first, usually with Synthrapol
        > to
        > > > remove any sizing, then soak it in an alum solution, hang it to dry
        > and
        > > > iron it. If it has any wrinkles, it won't pick up the paint properly
        > > > where it's wrinkled. I know, because I tried to belazy once and
        > found out
        > > > the hard way.
        > > >
        > > > I've used both caragheenan and methyl cellulose for fabrics and I
        > use
        > > > regular acrylic paints, thinned down with water and sometimes a drop
        > or two
        > > > of either photo flo or acrylic release fluid - both help it spread
        > better.
        > > > I always test the paint first in a corner of the tank before
        > throwing it
        > > > over the whole tank to see if it's sinking or not. You only use ox
        > gall
        > > > with watercolors, not acrylics.
        > > >
        > > > Dyes, to my knowledge anyway, will not work because they are too
        > thin. You
        > > > should use them for dyeing, which is what they are made for. I have
        > not
        > > > tried textile paints, but they might work. Prochem has a whole line
        > of
        > > > paints for marbling that are ready to use as they come, although I
        > have
        > > > still had to thin some of them. You will find that different
        > pigments have
        > > > different spreading rates. The blues especially are fast spreaders.
        > The
        > > > two colors I have the most problems with are black and red - getting
        > them
        > > > to look black and red on fabric instead of grey and pink.
        > > >
        > > > I rinse the fabric after marbling in two buckets of water - swish
        > them
        > > > around like a dishcloth in the bucket of water, then hang them for
        > 24 hours
        > > > to dry and "set". Some people say to put them in the dryer next for
        > about
        > > > a half hour to heat set them, then put through a rinse cycle, in the
        > dryer
        > > > again and iron them. I have not had them fade after doing this.
        > > >
        > > > hope this is of some help - others may have different opnions. Is
        > there
        > > > anyone close by you that you can take a class from? I'm mostly self
        > taught
        > > > and youtube taught because the closest person to me is 6 hours away.
        > > > Sue
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jennifer.motl
        Hi, thanks for sharing. I had heard this before and I just wanted to make sure that I read that right. I don t need to alum fabric if I am marbling with
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 29, 2014
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi, thanks for sharing. I had heard this before and I just wanted to make sure that I read that right. I don't need to alum fabric if I am marbling with acrylic fabric paints? This would be super helpful to skip that step and I am really excited at the idea! Please confirm. :-)
          Thanks!
          Jenny Motl (I'm a self-taught marbler and work on silk & cotton.)
        • jennifer.motl
          Oops, I just reread the thread and see I misunderstood: everyone is using alum. I had heard from a friend and fellow marbler that she saw Golden acrylics to
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 29, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            Oops, I just reread the thread and see I misunderstood: everyone is using alum. I had heard from a friend and fellow marbler that she saw Golden acrylics to stick to cotton fabric in a class without alum, but was not sure of washability.
            I am finding that I spend so much time aluming the silk, ironing it before marbling, then ironing each scarf for 20 minutes to heat-set after marbling, then washing and ironing again. Basically I am spending more time ironing than painting.
            Can anyone recommend time-saving steps? Or maybe paints that don't require heat-setting?
            I have been using mostly Setacolor and DyeNaFlow acrylic paints, which need heat-setting. Just got some Versatex No-Heat fixer, but you have to let the fabric cure for a week, and I am worried that the silk will rot after being alumed for a week. (Although maybe I just have to relax and rinse better after pulling the marbled scarves off the size?)
            I see ProChemical's marbling paints don't need to be heat-set but take a week to cure. Maybe I should try those? Has anyone had good experiences with those?
            Also I have tried marbling with DecoArt SoSoft acrylics. They don't need heat-setting but do need a lot of thinning before they float.
            Thanks in advance for your help!
          • irisnevins
            When I do fabric, I do not iron after aluming unless incredibly creased. I find hanging to dry silk scarves, the creases dry out of them enough to marble. I
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 30, 2014
            • 0 Attachment
              When I do fabric, I do not iron after aluming unless incredibly creased. I find hanging to dry silk scarves, the creases dry out of them enough to marble. I then only iron after marbling, which both takes out wrinkles and heat sets.  I never would iron each for 20 minutes. I use the cheap garbage paints from the big stores like A.C.Moore, that work fine and have not faded in 30 years, nor washed off with hand soaking. Scrubbing can fade any surface design if you do it hard enough. So can washing machines. Carrageenan size. No additives. They didn't have them yet as far as I know when I started doing this, so we worked very simply and it worked. Sometimes people make it unnecessarily  complicated.

              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com
               
               
              On 08/30/14, jennifer.motl@... [Marbling]<Marbling@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
               


              Oops, I just reread the thread and see I misunderstood: everyone is using alum. I had heard from a friend and fellow marbler that she saw Golden acrylics to stick to cotton fabric in a class without alum, but was not sure of washability.
              I am finding that I spend so much time aluming the silk, ironing it before marbling, then ironing each scarf for 20 minutes to heat-set after marbling, then washing and ironing again. Basically I am spending more time ironing than painting.
              Can anyone recommend time-saving steps? Or maybe paints that don't require heat-setting?
              I have been using mostly Setacolor and DyeNaFlow acrylic paints, which need heat-setting. Just got some Versatex No-Heat fixer, but you have to let the fabric cure for a week, and I am worried that the silk will rot after being alumed for a week. (Although maybe I just have to relax and rinse better after pulling the marbled scarves off the size?)
              I see ProChemical's marbling paints don't need to be heat-set but take a week to cure. Maybe I should try those? Has anyone had good experiences with those?
              Also I have tried marbling with DecoArt SoSoft acrylics. They don't need heat-setting but do need a lot of thinning before they float.
              Thanks in advance for your help!

            • jennifer.motl
              Thanks, Iris, that is really, really helpful. I probably need to just relax and experiment with the paints! I really admire your work, so it is nice to hear
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 30, 2014
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks, Iris, that is really, really helpful. I probably need to just relax and experiment with the paints! I really admire your work, so it is nice to hear from you!
                Jenny
              • John Goode
                it took many months for me too get the marbling process on fiber....it will take time to master the complexity of this craft be patient or it will not work.
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 30, 2014
                • 0 Attachment
                  it took many months for me too get the marbling process on fiber....it will take time to master the complexity of this craft  be patient or it will not work.
                  Wishing you the best! John Goode

                • jennifer.motl
                  Thanks, everyone! I got some new paints per your very helpful suggestions and will be using less alum the next time I marble silk. I am also a member of the
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 16, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks, everyone! I got some new paints per your very helpful suggestions and will be using less alum the next time I marble silk.
                    I am also a member of the Silk Artists team on Etsy.com -- most members paint silk scarves.
                    They recently asked me to write an article about marbling for their blog, and I’ll also be posting it on my own new blog. Since I am clearly a new marbler rather than an expert, I thought I would ask all of you, the experts!
                    Hopefully I am not being rude by asking this--not sure what the etiquette is, so if I have stepped outside the bounds, please correct me and chalk it up to my newness. :-)
                    I posted a short survey about tips for marbling on silk at jasminevelvet.com/ . Your answers are anonymous, however, if you’d like publicity, please include your full name & Web site so that I can credit you and hopefully send some traffic your way. Thanks!
                    Also, I will post an organized report of all your responses here next week so that everyone gets to share tips with each other and continue the discussion. Thanks again!
                    Jenny
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.