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Re: marbling database

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  • anthonianthonianthoni
    Perhaps this is because in suminagashi , the colours are floated on water, whilst in ebru, the colours are floated on a thickened liquid. Furthermore,
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 4, 2012
      Perhaps this is because in suminagashi , the colours are floated on water, whilst in ebru, the colours are floated on a thickened liquid.

      Furthermore, suminagashi tens to be a bit more abstract, as opposed to ebru and marbling, which,
      1 look somewhat similar
      2 produced in a nearly identical manner

      Speaking of ebru, is I heard there is a pattern that is constructed in a similar method to what is known as a " stormont" . One wonders If the European marblers learned it from the Turks or vice versa.....

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Feridun Ozgoren" <feridun.ozgoren@...> wrote:
      >
      > Suminagashi is called Suminagashi by "everybody and his or her brother or
      > sister"…..
      >
      > But ebru is called "marbled paper". One wonders why…at least I do….
      >
      > Any suggestions?
      >
      > Best wishes,
      >
      > Feridun Özgören
    • irisnevins
      Just musing.... but I wonder if Stormont (named for the Irish house of Parliament so they say) was created accidentally. As a young marbler in maybe 1978 or 79
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 4, 2012
        Just musing.... but I wonder if Stormont (named for the Irish house of Parliament so they say) was created accidentally. As a young marbler in maybe 1978 or 79 I was marbling in the kitchen and someone was cooking sausages. A spot of grease flew into the tray (trough tank whatever) and I got an instant Stormont. I didn't know of the pattern yet! So maybe someone got some tuprentine or grease in the tray accidentally too, and a new pattern was born.

        How I wish we had a time machine! We could really find out!
        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com



        On 03/04/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:

        Perhaps this is because in suminagashi , the colours are floated on water, whilst in ebru, the colours are floated on a thickened liquid.

        Furthermore, suminagashi tens to be a bit more abstract, as opposed to ebru and marbling, which,
        1 look somewhat similar
        2 produced in a nearly identical manner

        Speaking of ebru, is I heard there is a pattern that is constructed in a similar method to what is known as a " stormont" . One wonders If the European marblers learned it from the Turks or vice versa.....

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Feridun Ozgoren" <feridun.ozgoren@...> wrote:
        >
        > Suminagashi is called Suminagashi by "everybody and his or her brother or
        > sister"�..
        >
        > But ebru is called "marbled paper". One wonders why�at least I do�.
        >
        > Any suggestions?
        >
        > Best wishes,
        >
        > Feridun �zg�ren




        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Laura Sims
        Though I understand the need for clear communication while dealing with a client, patterns with a story like NJ Ripple seem to add extra flavor and
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 4, 2012
          Though I understand the need for clear communication while dealing with a client, patterns with a story like NJ Ripple seem to add extra flavor and individualization to the process.  I made a decision to work exclusively on textiles a few years ago and found that other fiber artists familiar with ebru/marbling only identified it with classical patterns used on paper.  Since I found that limiting for my product line and teaching possibilities I began using the term hydro-printing and have had positive results for my needs.  


          Health and Happiness to all,
          Laura Sims
          indigostonestudio.com


          ________________________________
          From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:09 AM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: marbling database


           
          And my comment on names being made up was not really a critique, because there are no standardized names. I have as well made up names, so had Chris Weimann .Ribbon Spanish I believe he made up, if Ingrid is reading maybe she knows...but that was his name for what I called Zebra, yet Ribbon Spanish describes it fully. What I call Rainbow Spanish, as far as I have researched, and I have an extensive (as far as marbling books go!) collection of old marbling books, as well as more modern, I have never seen that pattern at all in a book, and only saw TWO examples from the 1800s, in my 34 years of marbling. They were on an old book and one loose endpaper leaf. So when I called it Rainbow Spanish, it was because I had to call it something since I wrote the Spanish Marbling book and it was included there.

          This actually doesn't bother me at all, the comment was not meant to convey annoyance, I actually found it interesting, the names people come up with. The only real problem is when someone for example orders "Peacock", and I send Peacock and they expected Bouquet because some people (and books, I can't recall which) use the name Peacock... or "Fan". Visuals are best referred to when it comes to pattern names, and critical when taking orders.

          I too have thus made up names. My favorite name story, I did a "Zebra" but rather than give it a Spanish wave, and by the way, without the Spanish wave it is still often called Zebra, there is no right or wrong to it, just different, anyway I did a Moire ripple to it. I was set up at a show and had some for sale, and someone asked the name of the pattern. I had none. As a JOKE, I called it "New Jersey Ripple". I never intended the name to stick, but lo and behold, he bought a few, had some books bound by a bookbinder who showed some other binder friends and book people. They all called it NJ Ripple. I was getting calls (we had no email yet in those days!) ordering NJ Ripple. So this is how it happens.

          Another time, when I was working on my first book, "Traditional Marbling", I had a pattern which was combed and swirled, a common thing to do with the paints. I had to call it something. So I wrote for the printer (I mean a real printer, we hadn't PCs at the time!) FREEFORM COMB. He misread it, or glanced and typeset from memory and wrote FREEDOM COMB. Maybe I was rushed or something, juggling a marbling business, raising a daughter, and breeding Shelties, but I totally missed it on the proofs! So it became FREEDOM COMB and stuck. I just go with it because that is what people started calling it when ordering from me. Others have different names.

          People have attempted or at least suggested standardization of names to no avail. Combed is nonpareil, bouquet is peacock, snail is French curl, etc. All I was pointing out was, if it were taken otherwise, amusement at the fact, and I rather enjoy reading the names people come up with. Anyway who and what organization or librarian or whatever would assume they had the authority to change our pet names. If I were told I could no longer use the name NJ Ripple because someone decided otherwise, I'd use it anyway and not conform.

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com


          On 03/01/12, hamburgerbuntpapier_de<studio@...> wrote:


          Sue, what they have done is simply imprecise work. Imprecision doesn't further research, it is a hindrance at best and and a killer at worst.

          Meaning: if you have a collection at your disposal and have thought about it and want to share the results with others in the field, that's fine. If you want to further research and do it by an online database, that's good. If you ask specialists to join you in your efforts, that's even better.

          But.

          If you use terms that are not on the top end of current research and find out about this, correct them as soon as possible. If you find new sources, use them. If you're out of funds or staff or have lost interest, take your database offline at once as your final gift to research. If that's too much, make it crystal clear that your database has not been updated since ... and that research has progressed since and that your database is not any longer to be relied on.

          Years ago, when the link was brought up in the group for the first time, I contacted them, are you interested in support? Yes we are. Sent in a longish list of things to be noted and things to be done; incl. sources and a renowned American contact to give me a bona fides and all. Got a reply that, as I obviously knew quite a lot on the subject, I should transfer every remark into a form. The form was made out for American librarians. I'm neither, and while I can get by in four and a half languages besides German I don't know any Librarianish. So I filled in one form for one item (which incl. consulting two printed and one online dictionary took me about as long as assembling the whole list) and said, please check this out with my list and tell me what I need to do better or differently. Didn't hear anything. Sent another tentative mail, heard nothing. Gave up. Nothing has changed since in the database.

          Susanne Krause

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Antonio Velez Celemín
          That s sounds absolutely clever, Laura. Congratulations¡¡¡ Many people in Spain think marble paper is old fashioned, even if the pattern you offer is
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 4, 2012
            That's sounds absolutely clever, Laura. Congratulations���

            Many people in Spain think marble paper is old fashioned, even if the
            pattern you offer is completely original and modern��

            Hidro-impresion, this will be the word in Spanish...

            Best regards

            Antonio

            2012/3/4 Laura Sims <indigostone2@...>

            > **
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Though I understand the need for clear communication while dealing with a
            > client, patterns with a story like NJ Ripple seem to add extra flavor and
            > individualization to the process. I made a decision to work exclusively on
            > textiles a few years ago and found that other fiber artists familiar with
            > ebru/marbling only identified it with classical patterns used on paper.
            > Since I found that limiting for my product line and teaching possibilities
            > I began using the term hydro-printing and have had positive results for my
            > needs.
            >
            > Health and Happiness to all,
            > Laura Sims
            > indigostonestudio.com
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:09 AM
            > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: marbling database
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > And my comment on names being made up was not really a critique, because
            > there are no standardized names. I have as well made up names, so had Chris
            > Weimann .Ribbon Spanish I believe he made up, if Ingrid is reading maybe
            > she knows...but that was his name for what I called Zebra, yet Ribbon
            > Spanish describes it fully. What I call Rainbow Spanish, as far as I have
            > researched, and I have an extensive (as far as marbling books go!)
            > collection of old marbling books, as well as more modern, I have never seen
            > that pattern at all in a book, and only saw TWO examples from the 1800s, in
            > my 34 years of marbling. They were on an old book and one loose endpaper
            > leaf. So when I called it Rainbow Spanish, it was because I had to call it
            > something since I wrote the Spanish Marbling book and it was included
            > there.
            >
            > This actually doesn't bother me at all, the comment was not meant to
            > convey annoyance, I actually found it interesting, the names people come up
            > with. The only real problem is when someone for example orders "Peacock",
            > and I send Peacock and they expected Bouquet because some people (and
            > books, I can't recall which) use the name Peacock... or "Fan". Visuals are
            > best referred to when it comes to pattern names, and critical when taking
            > orders.
            >
            > I too have thus made up names. My favorite name story, I did a "Zebra" but
            > rather than give it a Spanish wave, and by the way, without the Spanish
            > wave it is still often called Zebra, there is no right or wrong to it, just
            > different, anyway I did a Moire ripple to it. I was set up at a show and
            > had some for sale, and someone asked the name of the pattern. I had none.
            > As a JOKE, I called it "New Jersey Ripple". I never intended the name to
            > stick, but lo and behold, he bought a few, had some books bound by a
            > bookbinder who showed some other binder friends and book people. They all
            > called it NJ Ripple. I was getting calls (we had no email yet in those
            > days!) ordering NJ Ripple. So this is how it happens.
            >
            > Another time, when I was working on my first book, "Traditional Marbling",
            > I had a pattern which was combed and swirled, a common thing to do with the
            > paints. I had to call it something. So I wrote for the printer (I mean a
            > real printer, we hadn't PCs at the time!) FREEFORM COMB. He misread it, or
            > glanced and typeset from memory and wrote FREEDOM COMB. Maybe I was rushed
            > or something, juggling a marbling business, raising a daughter, and
            > breeding Shelties, but I totally missed it on the proofs! So it became
            > FREEDOM COMB and stuck. I just go with it because that is what people
            > started calling it when ordering from me. Others have different names.
            >
            > People have attempted or at least suggested standardization of names to no
            > avail. Combed is nonpareil, bouquet is peacock, snail is French curl, etc.
            > All I was pointing out was, if it were taken otherwise, amusement at the
            > fact, and I rather enjoy reading the names people come up with. Anyway who
            > and what organization or librarian or whatever would assume they had the
            > authority to change our pet names. If I were told I could no longer use the
            > name NJ Ripple because someone decided otherwise, I'd use it anyway and not
            > conform.
            >
            > Iris Nevins
            > www.marblingpaper.com
            >
            > On 03/01/12, hamburgerbuntpapier_de<studio@...> wrote:
            >
            > Sue, what they have done is simply imprecise work. Imprecision doesn't
            > further research, it is a hindrance at best and and a killer at worst.
            >
            > Meaning: if you have a collection at your disposal and have thought about
            > it and want to share the results with others in the field, that's fine. If
            > you want to further research and do it by an online database, that's good.
            > If you ask specialists to join you in your efforts, that's even better.
            >
            > But.
            >
            > If you use terms that are not on the top end of current research and find
            > out about this, correct them as soon as possible. If you find new sources,
            > use them. If you're out of funds or staff or have lost interest, take your
            > database offline at once as your final gift to research. If that's too
            > much, make it crystal clear that your database has not been updated since
            > ... and that research has progressed since and that your database is not
            > any longer to be relied on.
            >
            > Years ago, when the link was brought up in the group for the first time, I
            > contacted them, are you interested in support? Yes we are. Sent in a
            > longish list of things to be noted and things to be done; incl. sources and
            > a renowned American contact to give me a bona fides and all. Got a reply
            > that, as I obviously knew quite a lot on the subject, I should transfer
            > every remark into a form. The form was made out for American librarians.
            > I'm neither, and while I can get by in four and a half languages besides
            > German I don't know any Librarianish. So I filled in one form for one item
            > (which incl. consulting two printed and one online dictionary took me about
            > as long as assembling the whole list) and said, please check this out with
            > my list and tell me what I need to do better or differently. Didn't hear
            > anything. Sent another tentative mail, heard nothing. Gave up. Nothing has
            > changed since in the database.
            >
            > Susanne Krause
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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