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Re: RE: [Marbling] Re: site of a facebook acquantance

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  • irisnevins
    Yes the dates of the books.... some actually have machine marbled Victorian era papers, implying they may have been old books but rebound at those later dates.
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
      Yes the dates of the books.... some actually have machine marbled Victorian era papers, implying they may have been old books but rebound at those later dates. You'd think they'd be a little more thorough before they post this misinformation to the world, and sounding like complete authorities on the subject. marbling, ebru, the art was around for a long time by the 17th century. Just shows anyone can post anything about anything. It would not have taken much for them to check the histories or ask a few people.
      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com



      On 02/09/12, Feridun Ozgoren<feridun.ozgoren@...> wrote:

      From the same web page: http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html

      “It possible that it crafstman inspired by the Byzantine marble wall that
      abound such as Haga Sophia in Istanbul”

      Turks never called ebru “marbled paper”. The name Ebri, Abru, or Ebru has
      nothing to do with marble. Hagia Sophia may have had inspired many things
      but not ebru. We can be little more serious, believe me it does not take
      too much!

      Feridun Özgren



      From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of hamburgerbuntpapier_de
      Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: site of a facebook acquantance





      Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books.
      Again, they should know better.

      Susanne Krause





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Papier-Royal
      Dear sirs I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 11, 2012
        Dear sirs

        I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.

        regards Vito

        http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html

        info@...

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/


















        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
        >
        > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
        >
        > Susanne Krause
        >
      • Papier-Royal
        Hi now you can see video i post it noy private now regard Vito info@papier-royal.com
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 11, 2012
          Hi

          now you can see video

          i post it noy private now


          regard Vito

          info@...






          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:
          >
          > http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html
          >
          > click on the different links to see more. I was not able to watch the
          > video, but everything else worked.
          > Sue
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • anthonianthonianthoni
          Well then, may know the titles of the books? Regards Anthony
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
            Well then, may know the titles of the books?
            Regards
            Anthony

            "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear sirs
            >
            > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
            >
            > regards Vito
            >
            > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
            >
            > info@...
            >
            > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
            > >
            > > Susanne Krause
            > >
            >
          • Papier-Royal
            Here you ll find everything you need to know to get started written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM read please about the famous
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
              Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
              written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel

              http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM

              read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)

              greetings

              Vito

              https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper





              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
              >
              > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
              > Regards
              > Anthony
              >
              > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear sirs
              > >
              > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
              > >
              > > regards Vito
              > >
              > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
              > >
              > > info@
              > >
              > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
              > > >
              > > > Susanne Krause
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Cynthia Eaton
              This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation available? I m very interested on this thread. Thanks ... [Non-text portions of this message
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                >
                > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                >
                > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                >
                > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                >
                > greetings
                >
                > Vito
                >
                > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                >
                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                > <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                > > Regards
                > > Anthony
                > >
                > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Dear sirs
                > > >
                > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                > Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
                > information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
                > worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
                > 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                > good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                > > >
                > > > regards Vito
                > > >
                > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                > > >
                > > > info@
                > > >
                > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
                > books. Again, they should know better.
                > > > >
                > > > > Susanne Krause
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • D or Jer Guffey
                copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed! d.guffey ... From:
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                  copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to
                  English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!

                  d.guffey

                  --------------------------------------------------
                  From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                  Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                  To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story

                  > This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                  > available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                  > On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                  >> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                  >>
                  >> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                  >>
                  >> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                  >>
                  >> greetings
                  >>
                  >> Vito
                  >>
                  >> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                  >>
                  >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                  >> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                  >> > Regards
                  >> > Anthony
                  >> >
                  >> > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Dear sirs
                  >> > >
                  >> > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                  >> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and
                  >> this
                  >> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence.
                  >> I
                  >> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the
                  >> late
                  >> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                  >> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                  >> > >
                  >> > > regards Vito
                  >> > >
                  >> > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                  >> > >
                  >> > > info@
                  >> > >
                  >> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                  >> wrote:
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
                  >> books. Again, they should know better.
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > Susanne Krause
                  >> > > >
                  >> > >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Prepress
                  Where are still secrets left? Ludwig Buntpapierer ___________________________________ Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition 310.217.0400
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                    Where are still secrets left?

                    Ludwig

                    Buntpapierer
                    ___________________________________
                    Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                    310.217.0400
                    www.Handpresse.com
                    www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                    -------------------------------------------------------------






                    On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:

                    > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                    > Italian to
                    > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                    >
                    > d.guffey
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------
                    > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                    > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                    > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                    >
                    >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                    >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                    >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                    >> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> **
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                    >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                    >>>
                    >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                    >>>
                    >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                    >>>
                    >>> greetings
                    >>>
                    >>> Vito
                    >>>
                    >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                    >>>
                    >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                    >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                    >>>> Regards
                    >>>> Anthony
                    >>>>
                    >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                    >>>> wrote:
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Dear sirs
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                    >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                    >>> and
                    >>> this
                    >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                    >>> existence.
                    >>> I
                    >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                    >>> the
                    >>> late
                    >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                    >>> I had
                    >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> regards Vito
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> info@
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                    >>>>> <studio@>
                    >>> wrote:
                    >>>>>>
                    >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                    >>>>>> the
                    >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                    >>>>>>
                    >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                    >>>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Papier-Royal
                    ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 ) That s all ...have you all a fine job Vito
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                      ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                      That's all ...have you all a fine job

                      Vito


                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Where are still secrets left?
                      >
                      > Ludwig
                      >
                      > Buntpapierer
                      > ___________________________________
                      > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                      > 310.217.0400
                      > www.Handpresse.com
                      > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                      > -------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                      >
                      > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                      > > Italian to
                      > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                      > >
                      > > d.guffey
                      > >
                      > > --------------------------------------------------
                      > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                      > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                      > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                      > >
                      > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                      > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                      > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                      > >> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>> **
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                      > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                      > >>>
                      > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                      > >>>
                      > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                      > >>>
                      > >>> greetings
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Vito
                      > >>>
                      > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                      > >>>
                      > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                      > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                      > >>>> Regards
                      > >>>> Anthony
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                      > >>>> wrote:
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> Dear sirs
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                      > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                      > >>> and
                      > >>> this
                      > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                      > >>> existence.
                      > >>> I
                      > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                      > >>> the
                      > >>> late
                      > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                      > >>> I had
                      > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> regards Vito
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> info@
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                      > >>>>> <studio@>
                      > >>> wrote:
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                      > >>>>>> the
                      > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> ------------------------------------
                      > >>
                      > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • D or Jer Guffey
                      If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won t get the same fine lines, but you can
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                        If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.

                        d.guffey


                        From: Papier-Royal
                        Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story




                        ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                        That's all ...have you all a fine job

                        Vito

                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Where are still secrets left?
                        >
                        > Ludwig
                        >
                        > Buntpapierer
                        > ___________________________________
                        > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                        > 310.217.0400
                        > www.Handpresse.com
                        > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                        > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                        >
                        > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                        > > Italian to
                        > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                        > >
                        > > d.guffey
                        > >
                        > > --------------------------------------------------
                        > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                        > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                        > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                        > >
                        > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                        > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                        > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                        > >> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>> **
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                        > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                        > >>>
                        > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                        > >>>
                        > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                        > >>>
                        > >>> greetings
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Vito
                        > >>>
                        > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                        > >>>
                        > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                        > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                        > >>>> Regards
                        > >>>> Anthony
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                        > >>>> wrote:
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> Dear sirs
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                        > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                        > >>> and
                        > >>> this
                        > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                        > >>> existence.
                        > >>> I
                        > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                        > >>> the
                        > >>> late
                        > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                        > >>> I had
                        > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> regards Vito
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> info@
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                        > >>>>> <studio@>
                        > >>> wrote:
                        > >>>>>>
                        > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                        > >>>>>> the
                        > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                        > >>>>>>
                        > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                        > >>>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> ------------------------------------
                        > >>
                        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Papier-Royal
                        Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/ no oil paints, bever used. The materials used are the same as
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                          Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr

                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/

                          no oil paints, bever used.


                          The materials used are the same as in 1600
                          Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                          The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                          that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                          Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm

                          Vito





                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                          >
                          > d.guffey
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Papier-Royal
                          > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                          >
                          > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                          >
                          > Vito
                          >
                          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Where are still secrets left?
                          > >
                          > > Ludwig
                          > >
                          > > Buntpapierer
                          > > ___________________________________
                          > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                          > > 310.217.0400
                          > > www.Handpresse.com
                          > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                          > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                          > > > Italian to
                          > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                          > > >
                          > > > d.guffey
                          > > >
                          > > > --------------------------------------------------
                          > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                          > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                          > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                          > > >
                          > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                          > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                          > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                          > > >> wrote:
                          > > >>
                          > > >>> **
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                          > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> greetings
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> Vito
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                          > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                          > > >>>>
                          > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                          > > >>>> Regards
                          > > >>>> Anthony
                          > > >>>>
                          > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                          > > >>>> wrote:
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                          > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                          > > >>> and
                          > > >>> this
                          > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                          > > >>> existence.
                          > > >>> I
                          > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                          > > >>> the
                          > > >>> late
                          > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                          > > >>> I had
                          > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>> regards Vito
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>> info@
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                          > > >>>>> <studio@>
                          > > >>> wrote:
                          > > >>>>>>
                          > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                          > > >>>>>> the
                          > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                          > > >>>>>>
                          > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                          > > >>>>>>
                          > > >>>>>
                          > > >>>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>>
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >> ------------------------------------
                          > > >>
                          > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ------------------------------------
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Nancy Akerly
                          Gorgeous papers! Sent from my iPad Liberty Grove Paper Arts http://web.me.com/nakerly/ ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                            Gorgeous papers!

                            Sent from my iPad
                            Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                            http://web.me.com/nakerly/

                            On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr
                            >
                            > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                            >
                            > no oil paints, bever used.
                            >
                            > The materials used are the same as in 1600
                            > Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                            > The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                            > that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                            > Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm
                            >
                            > Vito
                            >
                            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                            > >
                            > > d.guffey
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: Papier-Royal
                            > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                            > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                            > >
                            > > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                            > >
                            > > Vito
                            > >
                            > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Where are still secrets left?
                            > > >
                            > > > Ludwig
                            > > >
                            > > > Buntpapierer
                            > > > ___________________________________
                            > > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                            > > > 310.217.0400
                            > > > www.Handpresse.com
                            > > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                            > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                            > > > > Italian to
                            > > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > d.guffey
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --------------------------------------------------
                            > > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                            > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                            > > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                            > > > >
                            > > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                            > > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                            > > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                            > > > >> wrote:
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >>> **
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                            > > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>> greetings
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>> Vito
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                            > > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                            > > > >>>>
                            > > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                            > > > >>>> Regards
                            > > > >>>> Anthony
                            > > > >>>>
                            > > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                            > > > >>>> wrote:
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                            > > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                            > > > >>> and
                            > > > >>> this
                            > > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                            > > > >>> existence.
                            > > > >>> I
                            > > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                            > > > >>> the
                            > > > >>> late
                            > > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                            > > > >>> I had
                            > > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>> regards Vito
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>> info@
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                            > > > >>>>> <studio@>
                            > > > >>> wrote:
                            > > > >>>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                            > > > >>>>>> the
                            > > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                            > > > >>>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                            > > > >>>>>>
                            > > > >>>>>
                            > > > >>>>
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>>
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >> ------------------------------------
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >>
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • jemiljan
                            Dear Vito, The notion that Macé Ruette invented marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various authorities or
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                              Dear Vito,

                              The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.

                              Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.

                              Best Regards,

                              Jake Benson


                              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                              > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                              >
                              > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                              >
                              > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                              >
                              > greetings
                              >
                              > Vito
                              >
                              > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                              > > Regards
                              > > Anthony
                              > >
                              > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Dear sirs
                              > > >
                              > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                              > > >
                              > > > regards Vito
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                              > > >
                              > > > info@
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Susanne Krause
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Cynthia Eaton
                              Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some phrases are
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                                Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct
                                translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some
                                phrases are understood to be used traditionaly in a specific order. Hence
                                the use of "to and fro"as an example. And as an aside I will note that
                                there is an association between "go and come", your Turkish translation,
                                and "to and fro" does indeed relate in English. Go and To have a close
                                relation in the sense that they indicate a sense of moving away in
                                direction, Come and Fro share relation in the sense of a return or arrival
                                from afar. Since semantics are becoming quite the issue in this thread I
                                suppose I could have just started off using "come and go" but it didn't
                                come to mind, pardon me.
                                On Mar 12, 2012 6:33 PM, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Dear Vito,
                                >
                                > The notion that Mac�� Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific
                                patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various
                                "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown
                                to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard
                                Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they
                                were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe,
                                Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important
                                bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France,
                                but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic
                                combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish
                                Ruette's reputation.
                                >
                                > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have
                                an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on
                                translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word
                                "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the
                                mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable
                                examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence
                                confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th
                                century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm
                                that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the
                                art marbling.
                                >
                                > Best Regards,
                                >
                                > Jake Benson
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                > >
                                > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                > >
                                > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac��� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                > >
                                > > greetings
                                > >
                                > > Vito
                                > >
                                > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                                <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                > > > Regards
                                > > > Anthony
                                > > >
                                > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Dear sirs
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                                Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
                                information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
                                worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
                                70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                                good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > regards Vito
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                > > > >
                                > > > > info@
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                                wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                                the books. Again, they should know better.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Susanne Krause
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Papier-Royal
                                Dear Jake Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 13, 2012
                                  Dear Jake

                                  Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read various posts that gossiped inappropriately after visiting my site section History.
                                  I honestly do not like the bickering. Some members of this beautifull group have a little exaggeration in their writings. Now I'm going through my papers, it's better, because between the saying and doing tehre is a lot of difference.
                                  " Storia magistra vitae" ( The story is teacher of life,said ancient Romans ) but the tone of "Professor" used by some members of group to denigrate the work of others, it seemed rather exaggerated and frankly not at all polite.

                                  The True Story? Posterity will judge it to.

                                  kind regards
                                  Vito

                                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear Vito,
                                  >
                                  > The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.
                                  >
                                  > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.
                                  >
                                  > Best Regards,
                                  >
                                  > Jake Benson
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                  > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                  > >
                                  > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                  > >
                                  > > greetings
                                  > >
                                  > > Vito
                                  > >
                                  > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                  > >
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                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                  > > > Regards
                                  > > > Anthony
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
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                                  > > > > Dear sirs
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > regards Vito
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > info@
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
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                                  > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Susanne Krause
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                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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