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RE: [Marbling] Re: site of a facebook acquantance

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  • Feridun Ozgoren
    From the same web page: http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html “It possible that it crafstman inspired by the Byzantine marble wall that abound such as Haga
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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      From the same web page: http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html

      “It possible that it crafstman inspired by the Byzantine marble wall that
      abound such as Haga Sophia in Istanbul”

      Turks never called ebru “marbled paper”. The name Ebri, Abru, or Ebru has
      nothing to do with marble. Hagia Sophia may have had inspired many things
      but not ebru. We can be little more serious, believe me it does not take
      too much!

      Feridun Özgren



      From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of hamburgerbuntpapier_de
      Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: site of a facebook acquantance





      Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books.
      Again, they should know better.

      Susanne Krause





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • irisnevins
      Yes the dates of the books.... some actually have machine marbled Victorian era papers, implying they may have been old books but rebound at those later dates.
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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        Yes the dates of the books.... some actually have machine marbled Victorian era papers, implying they may have been old books but rebound at those later dates. You'd think they'd be a little more thorough before they post this misinformation to the world, and sounding like complete authorities on the subject. marbling, ebru, the art was around for a long time by the 17th century. Just shows anyone can post anything about anything. It would not have taken much for them to check the histories or ask a few people.
        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com



        On 02/09/12, Feridun Ozgoren<feridun.ozgoren@...> wrote:

        From the same web page: http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html

        “It possible that it crafstman inspired by the Byzantine marble wall that
        abound such as Haga Sophia in Istanbul”

        Turks never called ebru “marbled paper”. The name Ebri, Abru, or Ebru has
        nothing to do with marble. Hagia Sophia may have had inspired many things
        but not ebru. We can be little more serious, believe me it does not take
        too much!

        Feridun Özgren



        From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of hamburgerbuntpapier_de
        Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Marbling] Re: site of a facebook acquantance





        Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books.
        Again, they should know better.

        Susanne Krause





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Papier-Royal
        Dear sirs I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 11, 2012
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          Dear sirs

          I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.

          regards Vito

          http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html

          info@...

          http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/


















          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
          >
          > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
          >
          > Susanne Krause
          >
        • Papier-Royal
          Hi now you can see video i post it noy private now regard Vito info@papier-royal.com
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 11, 2012
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            Hi

            now you can see video

            i post it noy private now


            regard Vito

            info@...






            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:
            >
            > http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html
            >
            > click on the different links to see more. I was not able to watch the
            > video, but everything else worked.
            > Sue
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • anthonianthonianthoni
            Well then, may know the titles of the books? Regards Anthony
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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              Well then, may know the titles of the books?
              Regards
              Anthony

              "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear sirs
              >
              > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
              >
              > regards Vito
              >
              > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
              >
              > info@...
              >
              > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
              > >
              > > Susanne Krause
              > >
              >
            • Papier-Royal
              Here you ll find everything you need to know to get started written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM read please about the famous
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel

                http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM

                read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)

                greetings

                Vito

                https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper





                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                > Regards
                > Anthony
                >
                > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Dear sirs
                > >
                > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                > >
                > > regards Vito
                > >
                > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                > >
                > > info@
                > >
                > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
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                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                > > >
                > > > Susanne Krause
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Cynthia Eaton
                This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation available? I m very interested on this thread. Thanks ... [Non-text portions of this message
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                  This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                  available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                  On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                  > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                  >
                  > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                  >
                  > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                  >
                  > greetings
                  >
                  > Vito
                  >
                  > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                  >
                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                  > <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                  > > Regards
                  > > Anthony
                  > >
                  > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Dear sirs
                  > > >
                  > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                  > Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
                  > information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
                  > worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
                  > 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                  > good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                  > > >
                  > > > regards Vito
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                  > > >
                  > > > info@
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
                  > books. Again, they should know better.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Susanne Krause
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • D or Jer Guffey
                  copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed! d.guffey ... From:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                    copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to
                    English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!

                    d.guffey

                    --------------------------------------------------
                    From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                    Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                    To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story

                    > This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                    > available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                    > On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                    >> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                    >>
                    >> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                    >>
                    >> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                    >>
                    >> greetings
                    >>
                    >> Vito
                    >>
                    >> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                    >>
                    >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                    >> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                    >> > Regards
                    >> > Anthony
                    >> >
                    >> > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Dear sirs
                    >> > >
                    >> > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                    >> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and
                    >> this
                    >> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence.
                    >> I
                    >> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the
                    >> late
                    >> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                    >> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > regards Vito
                    >> > >
                    >> > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                    >> > >
                    >> > > info@
                    >> > >
                    >> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                    >> wrote:
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
                    >> books. Again, they should know better.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > Susanne Krause
                    >> > > >
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Prepress
                    Where are still secrets left? Ludwig Buntpapierer ___________________________________ Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition 310.217.0400
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                      Where are still secrets left?

                      Ludwig

                      Buntpapierer
                      ___________________________________
                      Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                      310.217.0400
                      www.Handpresse.com
                      www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                      -------------------------------------------------------------






                      On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:

                      > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                      > Italian to
                      > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                      >
                      > d.guffey
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------
                      > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                      > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                      > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                      >
                      >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                      >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                      >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                      >> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>> **
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                      >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                      >>>
                      >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                      >>>
                      >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                      >>>
                      >>> greetings
                      >>>
                      >>> Vito
                      >>>
                      >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                      >>>
                      >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                      >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                      >>>> Regards
                      >>>> Anthony
                      >>>>
                      >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                      >>>> wrote:
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Dear sirs
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                      >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                      >>> and
                      >>> this
                      >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                      >>> existence.
                      >>> I
                      >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                      >>> the
                      >>> late
                      >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                      >>> I had
                      >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> regards Vito
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> info@
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                      >>>>> <studio@>
                      >>> wrote:
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                      >>>>>> the
                      >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                      >>>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Papier-Royal
                      ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 ) That s all ...have you all a fine job Vito
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                        ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                        That's all ...have you all a fine job

                        Vito


                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Where are still secrets left?
                        >
                        > Ludwig
                        >
                        > Buntpapierer
                        > ___________________________________
                        > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                        > 310.217.0400
                        > www.Handpresse.com
                        > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                        > -------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                        >
                        > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                        > > Italian to
                        > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                        > >
                        > > d.guffey
                        > >
                        > > --------------------------------------------------
                        > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                        > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                        > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                        > >
                        > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                        > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                        > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                        > >> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>> **
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                        > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                        > >>>
                        > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                        > >>>
                        > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                        > >>>
                        > >>> greetings
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Vito
                        > >>>
                        > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                        > >>>
                        > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                        > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                        > >>>> Regards
                        > >>>> Anthony
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                        > >>>> wrote:
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> Dear sirs
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                        > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                        > >>> and
                        > >>> this
                        > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                        > >>> existence.
                        > >>> I
                        > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                        > >>> the
                        > >>> late
                        > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                        > >>> I had
                        > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> regards Vito
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> info@
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                        > >>>>> <studio@>
                        > >>> wrote:
                        > >>>>>>
                        > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                        > >>>>>> the
                        > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                        > >>>>>>
                        > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                        > >>>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> ------------------------------------
                        > >>
                        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • D or Jer Guffey
                        If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won t get the same fine lines, but you can
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.

                          d.guffey


                          From: Papier-Royal
                          Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story




                          ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                          That's all ...have you all a fine job

                          Vito

                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Where are still secrets left?
                          >
                          > Ludwig
                          >
                          > Buntpapierer
                          > ___________________________________
                          > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                          > 310.217.0400
                          > www.Handpresse.com
                          > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                          >
                          > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                          > > Italian to
                          > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                          > >
                          > > d.guffey
                          > >
                          > > --------------------------------------------------
                          > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                          > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                          > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                          > >
                          > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                          > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                          > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                          > >> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >>> **
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                          > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                          > >>>
                          > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                          > >>>
                          > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                          > >>>
                          > >>> greetings
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Vito
                          > >>>
                          > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                          > >>>
                          > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                          > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                          > >>>> Regards
                          > >>>> Anthony
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                          > >>>> wrote:
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> Dear sirs
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                          > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                          > >>> and
                          > >>> this
                          > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                          > >>> existence.
                          > >>> I
                          > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                          > >>> the
                          > >>> late
                          > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                          > >>> I had
                          > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> regards Vito
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> info@
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                          > >>>>> <studio@>
                          > >>> wrote:
                          > >>>>>>
                          > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                          > >>>>>> the
                          > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                          > >>>>>>
                          > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                          > >>>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> ------------------------------------
                          > >>
                          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Papier-Royal
                          Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/ no oil paints, bever used. The materials used are the same as
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr

                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/

                            no oil paints, bever used.


                            The materials used are the same as in 1600
                            Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                            The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                            that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                            Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm

                            Vito





                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                            >
                            > d.guffey
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Papier-Royal
                            > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                            >
                            > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                            >
                            > Vito
                            >
                            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Where are still secrets left?
                            > >
                            > > Ludwig
                            > >
                            > > Buntpapierer
                            > > ___________________________________
                            > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                            > > 310.217.0400
                            > > www.Handpresse.com
                            > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                            > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                            > > > Italian to
                            > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                            > > >
                            > > > d.guffey
                            > > >
                            > > > --------------------------------------------------
                            > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                            > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                            > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                            > > >
                            > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                            > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                            > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                            > > >> wrote:
                            > > >>
                            > > >>> **
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                            > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> greetings
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> Vito
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                            > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                            > > >>>> Regards
                            > > >>>> Anthony
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                            > > >>>> wrote:
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                            > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                            > > >>> and
                            > > >>> this
                            > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                            > > >>> existence.
                            > > >>> I
                            > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                            > > >>> the
                            > > >>> late
                            > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                            > > >>> I had
                            > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> regards Vito
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> info@
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                            > > >>>>> <studio@>
                            > > >>> wrote:
                            > > >>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                            > > >>>>>> the
                            > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                            > > >>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                            > > >>>>>>
                            > > >>>>>
                            > > >>>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>>
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >> ------------------------------------
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Nancy Akerly
                            Gorgeous papers! Sent from my iPad Liberty Grove Paper Arts http://web.me.com/nakerly/ ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Gorgeous papers!

                              Sent from my iPad
                              Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                              http://web.me.com/nakerly/

                              On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr
                              >
                              > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                              >
                              > no oil paints, bever used.
                              >
                              > The materials used are the same as in 1600
                              > Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                              > The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                              > that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                              > Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm
                              >
                              > Vito
                              >
                              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                              > >
                              > > d.guffey
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > From: Papier-Royal
                              > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                              > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                              > >
                              > > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                              > >
                              > > Vito
                              > >
                              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Where are still secrets left?
                              > > >
                              > > > Ludwig
                              > > >
                              > > > Buntpapierer
                              > > > ___________________________________
                              > > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                              > > > 310.217.0400
                              > > > www.Handpresse.com
                              > > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                              > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                              > > > > Italian to
                              > > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > d.guffey
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --------------------------------------------------
                              > > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                              > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                              > > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                              > > > >
                              > > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                              > > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                              > > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                              > > > >> wrote:
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>> **
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                              > > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> greetings
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> Vito
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                              > > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                              > > > >>>>
                              > > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                              > > > >>>> Regards
                              > > > >>>> Anthony
                              > > > >>>>
                              > > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                              > > > >>>> wrote:
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                              > > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                              > > > >>> and
                              > > > >>> this
                              > > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                              > > > >>> existence.
                              > > > >>> I
                              > > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                              > > > >>> the
                              > > > >>> late
                              > > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                              > > > >>> I had
                              > > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> regards Vito
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> info@
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                              > > > >>>>> <studio@>
                              > > > >>> wrote:
                              > > > >>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                              > > > >>>>>> the
                              > > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                              > > > >>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                              > > > >>>>>>
                              > > > >>>>>
                              > > > >>>>
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >> ------------------------------------
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >>
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • jemiljan
                              Dear Vito, The notion that Macé Ruette invented marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various authorities or
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Vito,

                                The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.

                                Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.

                                Best Regards,

                                Jake Benson


                                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                >
                                > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                >
                                > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                >
                                > greetings
                                >
                                > Vito
                                >
                                > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                > > Regards
                                > > Anthony
                                > >
                                > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Dear sirs
                                > > >
                                > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                > > >
                                > > > regards Vito
                                > > >
                                > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                > > >
                                > > > info@
                                > > >
                                > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Susanne Krause
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Cynthia Eaton
                                Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some phrases are
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct
                                  translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some
                                  phrases are understood to be used traditionaly in a specific order. Hence
                                  the use of "to and fro"as an example. And as an aside I will note that
                                  there is an association between "go and come", your Turkish translation,
                                  and "to and fro" does indeed relate in English. Go and To have a close
                                  relation in the sense that they indicate a sense of moving away in
                                  direction, Come and Fro share relation in the sense of a return or arrival
                                  from afar. Since semantics are becoming quite the issue in this thread I
                                  suppose I could have just started off using "come and go" but it didn't
                                  come to mind, pardon me.
                                  On Mar 12, 2012 6:33 PM, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dear Vito,
                                  >
                                  > The notion that Mac�� Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific
                                  patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various
                                  "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown
                                  to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard
                                  Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they
                                  were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe,
                                  Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important
                                  bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France,
                                  but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic
                                  combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish
                                  Ruette's reputation.
                                  >
                                  > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have
                                  an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on
                                  translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word
                                  "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the
                                  mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable
                                  examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence
                                  confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th
                                  century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm
                                  that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the
                                  art marbling.
                                  >
                                  > Best Regards,
                                  >
                                  > Jake Benson
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                  > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                  > >
                                  > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac��� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                  > >
                                  > > greetings
                                  > >
                                  > > Vito
                                  > >
                                  > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                                  <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                  > > > Regards
                                  > > > Anthony
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Dear sirs
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                                  Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
                                  information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
                                  worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
                                  70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                                  good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > regards Vito
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > info@
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
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                                  > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                                  wrote:
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                                  > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                                  the books. Again, they should know better.
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                                  > > > > > Susanne Krause
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                                • Papier-Royal
                                  Dear Jake Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 13, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dear Jake

                                    Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read various posts that gossiped inappropriately after visiting my site section History.
                                    I honestly do not like the bickering. Some members of this beautifull group have a little exaggeration in their writings. Now I'm going through my papers, it's better, because between the saying and doing tehre is a lot of difference.
                                    " Storia magistra vitae" ( The story is teacher of life,said ancient Romans ) but the tone of "Professor" used by some members of group to denigrate the work of others, it seemed rather exaggerated and frankly not at all polite.

                                    The True Story? Posterity will judge it to.

                                    kind regards
                                    Vito

                                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Dear Vito,
                                    >
                                    > The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.
                                    >
                                    > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.
                                    >
                                    > Best Regards,
                                    >
                                    > Jake Benson
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                    > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                    > >
                                    > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                    > >
                                    > > greetings
                                    > >
                                    > > Vito
                                    > >
                                    > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                    > > > Regards
                                    > > > Anthony
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Dear sirs
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > regards Vito
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > info@
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
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                                    > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Susanne Krause
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
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