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site of a facebook acquantance

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  • Sue Cole
    http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html click on the different links to see more. I was not able to watch the video, but everything else worked. Sue [Non-text
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 8, 2012
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      http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html

      click on the different links to see more. I was not able to watch the
      video, but everything else worked.
      Sue


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Feridun Ozgoren
      On the Home Page of this web site it is written: “The processing used to decorate this hand marbled paper, was discovered and adopted in the XVII cen. by
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 8, 2012
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        On the Home Page of this web site it is written: “The processing used to
        decorate this hand marbled paper, was discovered and adopted in the XVII
        cen. by Mace Ruette, bookbinder of the Court of the King Lois XIII of
        France…..”

        This claim is simply unfounded. Marbled papers with earlier dates do exist
        and the people running “Papier Royal” should know better.

        Feridun Özgören



        From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Sue Cole
        Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:54 PM
        To: marbling
        Subject: [Marbling] site of a facebook acquantance





        http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html

        click on the different links to see more. I was not able to watch the
        video, but everything else worked.
        Sue

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
        Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better. Susanne Krause
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 8, 2012
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          Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.

          Susanne Krause
        • Feridun Ozgoren
          From the same web page: http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html “It possible that it crafstman inspired by the Byzantine marble wall that abound such as Haga
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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            From the same web page: http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html

            “It possible that it crafstman inspired by the Byzantine marble wall that
            abound such as Haga Sophia in Istanbul”

            Turks never called ebru “marbled paper”. The name Ebri, Abru, or Ebru has
            nothing to do with marble. Hagia Sophia may have had inspired many things
            but not ebru. We can be little more serious, believe me it does not take
            too much!

            Feridun Özgren



            From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of hamburgerbuntpapier_de
            Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: site of a facebook acquantance





            Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books.
            Again, they should know better.

            Susanne Krause





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • irisnevins
            Yes the dates of the books.... some actually have machine marbled Victorian era papers, implying they may have been old books but rebound at those later dates.
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 9, 2012
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              Yes the dates of the books.... some actually have machine marbled Victorian era papers, implying they may have been old books but rebound at those later dates. You'd think they'd be a little more thorough before they post this misinformation to the world, and sounding like complete authorities on the subject. marbling, ebru, the art was around for a long time by the 17th century. Just shows anyone can post anything about anything. It would not have taken much for them to check the histories or ask a few people.
              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com



              On 02/09/12, Feridun Ozgoren<feridun.ozgoren@...> wrote:

              From the same web page: http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html

              “It possible that it crafstman inspired by the Byzantine marble wall that
              abound such as Haga Sophia in Istanbul”

              Turks never called ebru “marbled paper”. The name Ebri, Abru, or Ebru has
              nothing to do with marble. Hagia Sophia may have had inspired many things
              but not ebru. We can be little more serious, believe me it does not take
              too much!

              Feridun Özgren



              From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of hamburgerbuntpapier_de
              Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Marbling] Re: site of a facebook acquantance





              Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books.
              Again, they should know better.

              Susanne Krause





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Papier-Royal
              Dear sirs I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 11, 2012
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                Dear sirs

                I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.

                regards Vito

                http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html

                info@...

                http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/


















                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
                >
                > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                >
                > Susanne Krause
                >
              • Papier-Royal
                Hi now you can see video i post it noy private now regard Vito info@papier-royal.com
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 11, 2012
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                  Hi

                  now you can see video

                  i post it noy private now


                  regard Vito

                  info@...






                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > http://www.papier-royal.com/story.html
                  >
                  > click on the different links to see more. I was not able to watch the
                  > video, but everything else worked.
                  > Sue
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • anthonianthonianthoni
                  Well then, may know the titles of the books? Regards Anthony
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                    Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                    Regards
                    Anthony

                    "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear sirs
                    >
                    > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                    >
                    > regards Vito
                    >
                    > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                    >
                    > info@...
                    >
                    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    >
                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                    > >
                    > > Susanne Krause
                    > >
                    >
                  • Papier-Royal
                    Here you ll find everything you need to know to get started written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM read please about the famous
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                      Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                      written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel

                      http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM

                      read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)

                      greetings

                      Vito

                      https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper





                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                      > Regards
                      > Anthony
                      >
                      > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Dear sirs
                      > >
                      > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                      > >
                      > > regards Vito
                      > >
                      > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                      > >
                      > > info@
                      > >
                      > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                      > > >
                      > > > Susanne Krause
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Cynthia Eaton
                      This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation available? I m very interested on this thread. Thanks ... [Non-text portions of this message
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                        This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                        available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                        On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                        > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                        >
                        > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                        >
                        > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                        >
                        > greetings
                        >
                        > Vito
                        >
                        > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                        >
                        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                        > <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                        > > Regards
                        > > Anthony
                        > >
                        > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear sirs
                        > > >
                        > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                        > Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
                        > information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
                        > worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
                        > 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                        > good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                        > > >
                        > > > regards Vito
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                        > > >
                        > > > info@
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                        > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
                        > books. Again, they should know better.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Susanne Krause
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • D or Jer Guffey
                        copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed! d.guffey ... From:
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from Italian to
                          English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!

                          d.guffey

                          --------------------------------------------------
                          From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                          Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                          To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story

                          > This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                          > available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                          > On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> **
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                          >> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                          >>
                          >> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                          >>
                          >> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                          >>
                          >> greetings
                          >>
                          >> Vito
                          >>
                          >> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                          >>
                          >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                          >> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                          >> >
                          >> > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                          >> > Regards
                          >> > Anthony
                          >> >
                          >> > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > > Dear sirs
                          >> > >
                          >> > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                          >> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and
                          >> this
                          >> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence.
                          >> I
                          >> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the
                          >> late
                          >> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                          >> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                          >> > >
                          >> > > regards Vito
                          >> > >
                          >> > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                          >> > >
                          >> > > info@
                          >> > >
                          >> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > >
                          >> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                          >> wrote:
                          >> > > >
                          >> > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the
                          >> books. Again, they should know better.
                          >> > > >
                          >> > > > Susanne Krause
                          >> > > >
                          >> > >
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Prepress
                          Where are still secrets left? Ludwig Buntpapierer ___________________________________ Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition 310.217.0400
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Where are still secrets left?

                            Ludwig

                            Buntpapierer
                            ___________________________________
                            Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                            310.217.0400
                            www.Handpresse.com
                            www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                            -------------------------------------------------------------






                            On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:

                            > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                            > Italian to
                            > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                            >
                            > d.guffey
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------
                            > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                            > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                            > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                            >
                            >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                            >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                            >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                            >> wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> **
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                            >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                            >>>
                            >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                            >>>
                            >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                            >>>
                            >>> greetings
                            >>>
                            >>> Vito
                            >>>
                            >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                            >>>
                            >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                            >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                            >>>> Regards
                            >>>> Anthony
                            >>>>
                            >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                            >>>> wrote:
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> Dear sirs
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                            >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                            >>> and
                            >>> this
                            >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                            >>> existence.
                            >>> I
                            >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                            >>> the
                            >>> late
                            >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                            >>> I had
                            >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> regards Vito
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> info@
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                            >>>>> <studio@>
                            >>> wrote:
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                            >>>>>> the
                            >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Papier-Royal
                            ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 ) That s all ...have you all a fine job Vito
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
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                              ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                              That's all ...have you all a fine job

                              Vito


                              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Where are still secrets left?
                              >
                              > Ludwig
                              >
                              > Buntpapierer
                              > ___________________________________
                              > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                              > 310.217.0400
                              > www.Handpresse.com
                              > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                              > -------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                              >
                              > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                              > > Italian to
                              > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                              > >
                              > > d.guffey
                              > >
                              > > --------------------------------------------------
                              > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                              > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                              > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                              > >
                              > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                              > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                              > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                              > >> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>> **
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                              > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                              > >>>
                              > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                              > >>>
                              > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                              > >>>
                              > >>> greetings
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Vito
                              > >>>
                              > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                              > >>>
                              > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                              > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                              > >>>> Regards
                              > >>>> Anthony
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                              > >>>> wrote:
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> Dear sirs
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                              > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                              > >>> and
                              > >>> this
                              > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                              > >>> existence.
                              > >>> I
                              > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                              > >>> the
                              > >>> late
                              > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                              > >>> I had
                              > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> regards Vito
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> info@
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                              > >>>>> <studio@>
                              > >>> wrote:
                              > >>>>>>
                              > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                              > >>>>>> the
                              > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                              > >>>>>>
                              > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                              > >>>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> ------------------------------------
                              > >>
                              > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • D or Jer Guffey
                              If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won t get the same fine lines, but you can
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.

                                d.guffey


                                From: Papier-Royal
                                Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story




                                ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )

                                That's all ...have you all a fine job

                                Vito

                                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Where are still secrets left?
                                >
                                > Ludwig
                                >
                                > Buntpapierer
                                > ___________________________________
                                > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                                > 310.217.0400
                                > www.Handpresse.com
                                > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                                > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                                >
                                > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                                > > Italian to
                                > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                                > >
                                > > d.guffey
                                > >
                                > > --------------------------------------------------
                                > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@...>
                                > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                                > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                                > >
                                > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                                > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                                > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...>
                                > >> wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >>> **
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                > >>>
                                > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                > >>>
                                > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                                > >>>
                                > >>> greetings
                                > >>>
                                > >>> Vito
                                > >>>
                                > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                > >>>
                                > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                                > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                > >>>> Regards
                                > >>>> Anthony
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                > >>>> wrote:
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Dear sirs
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                                > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                                > >>> and
                                > >>> this
                                > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                                > >>> existence.
                                > >>> I
                                > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                                > >>> the
                                > >>> late
                                > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                                > >>> I had
                                > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> regards Vito
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> info@
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                                > >>>>> <studio@>
                                > >>> wrote:
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                                > >>>>>> the
                                > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> ------------------------------------
                                > >>
                                > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Papier-Royal
                                Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/ no oil paints, bever used. The materials used are the same as
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr

                                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/

                                  no oil paints, bever used.


                                  The materials used are the same as in 1600
                                  Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                                  The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                                  that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                                  Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm

                                  Vito





                                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                                  >
                                  > d.guffey
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Papier-Royal
                                  > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                                  >
                                  > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                                  >
                                  > Vito
                                  >
                                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Where are still secrets left?
                                  > >
                                  > > Ludwig
                                  > >
                                  > > Buntpapierer
                                  > > ___________________________________
                                  > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                                  > > 310.217.0400
                                  > > www.Handpresse.com
                                  > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                                  > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                                  > > > Italian to
                                  > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > d.guffey
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --------------------------------------------------
                                  > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                                  > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                                  > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                                  > > >
                                  > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                                  > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                                  > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                  > > >> wrote:
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>> **
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                  > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>> greetings
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>> Vito
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                                  > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                  > > >>>>
                                  > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                  > > >>>> Regards
                                  > > >>>> Anthony
                                  > > >>>>
                                  > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                  > > >>>> wrote:
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                                  > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                                  > > >>> and
                                  > > >>> this
                                  > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                                  > > >>> existence.
                                  > > >>> I
                                  > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                                  > > >>> the
                                  > > >>> late
                                  > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                                  > > >>> I had
                                  > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>> regards Vito
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>> info@
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                                  > > >>>>> <studio@>
                                  > > >>> wrote:
                                  > > >>>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                                  > > >>>>>> the
                                  > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                                  > > >>>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                                  > > >>>>>>
                                  > > >>>>>
                                  > > >>>>
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ------------------------------------
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Nancy Akerly
                                  Gorgeous papers! Sent from my iPad Liberty Grove Paper Arts http://web.me.com/nakerly/ ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Gorgeous papers!

                                    Sent from my iPad
                                    Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                                    http://web.me.com/nakerly/

                                    On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Please take a look to some my marbled papers on Flickr
                                    >
                                    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                    >
                                    > no oil paints, bever used.
                                    >
                                    > The materials used are the same as in 1600
                                    > Carragheen moss seaweed, powdered and boiled.
                                    > The colors are made with natural indelible pigments
                                    > that don't require pre-treatment paper with alum.
                                    > Fabriano paper or Fedrigoni pH neutral (acid free) g / 100-115 sqm
                                    >
                                    > Vito
                                    >
                                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > If you are marbling with oil paints (instead of water based paints) there is no need to alum. Of course you won't get the same fine lines, but you can duplicate the patterns. I marbled in oils until I changed to acrylics.
                                    > >
                                    > > d.guffey
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > From: Papier-Royal
                                    > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:58 PM
                                    > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ....i never used alum to marble papers. ( I started in 1978 )
                                    > >
                                    > > That's all ...have you all a fine job
                                    > >
                                    > > Vito
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Prepress <typenut@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Where are still secrets left?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Ludwig
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Buntpapierer
                                    > > > ___________________________________
                                    > > > Hand Bookbinding and Tooling in French and German Tradition
                                    > > > 310.217.0400
                                    > > > www.Handpresse.com
                                    > > > www.KrauseIntaglio.com
                                    > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On Mar 12, 2012, at 12:09 PM, D or Jer Guffey wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > copy the text, take it to Google translate and translate it from
                                    > > > > Italian to
                                    > > > > English. I just did this and there are no secrets revealed!
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > d.guffey
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --------------------------------------------------
                                    > > > > From: "Cynthia Eaton" <cre8ton@>
                                    > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:35 AM
                                    > > > > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Papier Royal Marbled paper story
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >> This looks to be a great resource, is there an English translation
                                    > > > >> available? I'm very interested on this thread. Thanks
                                    > > > >> On Mar 12, 2012 10:27 AM, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                    > > > >> wrote:
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >>> **
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>> Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                    > > > >>> written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>> http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>> read please about the famous bookbinder Macè Ruette ( XVII century)
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>> greetings
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>> Vito
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>> https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                                    > > > >>> <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                    > > > >>>>
                                    > > > >>>> Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                    > > > >>>> Regards
                                    > > > >>>> Anthony
                                    > > > >>>>
                                    > > > >>>> "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                    > > > >>>> wrote:
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>> Dear sirs
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>> I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                                    > > > >>> Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian
                                    > > > >>> and
                                    > > > >>> this
                                    > > > >>> information can be found in books that you totally ignored the
                                    > > > >>> existence.
                                    > > > >>> I
                                    > > > >>> worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in
                                    > > > >>> the
                                    > > > >>> late
                                    > > > >>> 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and
                                    > > > >>> I had
                                    > > > >>> good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>> regards Vito
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>> http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>> info@
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                                    > > > >>>>> <studio@>
                                    > > > >>> wrote:
                                    > > > >>>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>> Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                                    > > > >>>>>> the
                                    > > > >>> books. Again, they should know better.
                                    > > > >>>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>> Susanne Krause
                                    > > > >>>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>>
                                    > > > >>>>
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>>
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >> ------------------------------------
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >>
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ------------------------------------
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • jemiljan
                                    Dear Vito, The notion that Macé Ruette invented marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various authorities or
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear Vito,

                                      The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.

                                      Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.

                                      Best Regards,

                                      Jake Benson


                                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                      > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                      >
                                      > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                      >
                                      > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                      >
                                      > greetings
                                      >
                                      > Vito
                                      >
                                      > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                      > > Regards
                                      > > Anthony
                                      > >
                                      > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Dear sirs
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > regards Vito
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                      > > >
                                      > > > info@
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Susanne Krause
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Cynthia Eaton
                                      Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some phrases are
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 12, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Not to split hairs, but it I did make a point that it was not a direct
                                        translation. To a native English speaker my intended point is that some
                                        phrases are understood to be used traditionaly in a specific order. Hence
                                        the use of "to and fro"as an example. And as an aside I will note that
                                        there is an association between "go and come", your Turkish translation,
                                        and "to and fro" does indeed relate in English. Go and To have a close
                                        relation in the sense that they indicate a sense of moving away in
                                        direction, Come and Fro share relation in the sense of a return or arrival
                                        from afar. Since semantics are becoming quite the issue in this thread I
                                        suppose I could have just started off using "come and go" but it didn't
                                        come to mind, pardon me.
                                        On Mar 12, 2012 6:33 PM, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Dear Vito,
                                        >
                                        > The notion that Mac�� Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific
                                        patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various
                                        "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown
                                        to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard
                                        Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they
                                        were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe,
                                        Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important
                                        bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France,
                                        but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic
                                        combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish
                                        Ruette's reputation.
                                        >
                                        > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have
                                        an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on
                                        translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word
                                        "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the
                                        mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable
                                        examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence
                                        confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th
                                        century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm
                                        that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the
                                        art marbling.
                                        >
                                        > Best Regards,
                                        >
                                        > Jake Benson
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                        > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                        > >
                                        > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                        > >
                                        > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac��� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                        > >
                                        > > greetings
                                        > >
                                        > > Vito
                                        > >
                                        > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
                                        <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                        > > > Regards
                                        > > > Anthony
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@>
                                        wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Dear sirs
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper.
                                        Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this
                                        information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I
                                        worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late
                                        70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had
                                        good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > regards Vito
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > info@
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
                                        wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of
                                        the books. Again, they should know better.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Susanne Krause
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Papier-Royal
                                        Dear Jake Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 13, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dear Jake

                                          Thanks for your very interesting remarks and for your education and non-polemical tone. All these posts were created by the fact that I have read various posts that gossiped inappropriately after visiting my site section History.
                                          I honestly do not like the bickering. Some members of this beautifull group have a little exaggeration in their writings. Now I'm going through my papers, it's better, because between the saying and doing tehre is a lot of difference.
                                          " Storia magistra vitae" ( The story is teacher of life,said ancient Romans ) but the tone of "Professor" used by some members of group to denigrate the work of others, it seemed rather exaggerated and frankly not at all polite.

                                          The True Story? Posterity will judge it to.

                                          kind regards
                                          Vito

                                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "jemiljan" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Dear Vito,
                                          >
                                          > The notion that Macé Ruette "invented" marbling- or even specific patterns- is in no way universally accepted. Appeals to various "authorities" or years as a practitioner aside, this notion has been shown to be comprised of far more fanciful folklore than actual research. Richard Wolfe identified these stories as originating from Jean La Caille, and they were written some half a century after Ruette's death. See Richard Wolfe, Marbled Paper, pp. 36-7. There is no doubt that Ruette was an important bookbinder, and he may have also been engaged in early marbling in France, but these stories claiming he "invented" marbling or attributing basic combed designs to him is clearly an exaggeration meant to embellish Ruette's reputation.
                                          >
                                          > Furthermore, the combed designs attributed to Ruette quite clearly have an earlier origin in India, Iran, and Turkey. Currently, I am working on translating several Persian language sources on abri papers (the word "ebru" is never used in any historical primary textual source before the mid 19th c.). When considered together with several concretely datable examples of marbled papers culled from various manuscripts, this evidence confirms these advances took place in India at the turn of the 16th-17th century. These proved so popular that they spread very rapidly, a paradigm that effectively challenges prevailing ideas about the development of the art marbling.
                                          >
                                          > Best Regards,
                                          >
                                          > Jake Benson
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Here you'll find everything you need to know to get started
                                          > > written by Prof. Gabriel Mandel
                                          > >
                                          > > http://www.puntosufi.it/TEMI6.HTM
                                          > >
                                          > > read please about the famous bookbinder Mac� Ruette ( XVII century)
                                          > >
                                          > > greetings
                                          > >
                                          > > Vito
                                          > >
                                          > > https://www.facebook.com/marblingpaper
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Well then, may know the titles of the books?
                                          > > > Regards
                                          > > > Anthony
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Papier-Royal" <papier_royal@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Dear sirs
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I read your comments on my page of the History of marbled paper. Perhaps you should investigate the issue better. I am a librarian and this information can be found in books that you totally ignored the existence. I worked for 2 years at the IL PAPIRO of Corso Cavour in Florence in the late 70's, so, believe me, I do not have much to learn from anyone and I had good teachers and expert abot thhe marbled paper world.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > regards Vito
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.papier-royal.com/index_en.html
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > info@
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/papier-royal/
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Moreover, they seem to date the papers by the printing date of the books. Again, they should know better.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Susanne Krause
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
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