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Re: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern

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  • irisnevins
    Wow....yes...Signal mouthwash. I meant to try it 20 years back! Never did. Try anything. As for the pattern, its not hard, and yes, you drag a stylus through
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 14, 2011
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      Wow....yes...Signal mouthwash. I meant to try it 20 years back! Never did. Try anything.

      As for the pattern, its not hard, and yes, you drag a stylus through the spots. Usually a navy background. Anything you want though.
      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: D or Jer Guffey<mailto:dguff@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 5:34 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern


      The article in Ink & Gall about marbling with "spots of color" is in Vol V, No.1, pg. 14-16. The picture of the wreath is in Vol III, No. 2, pg. 37. The article is by Paulette J. Roades. I especially remember her using Signal mouthwash in place of gall and saying she tried the same with Scope, but it didn't work as well. This article was written in 1991, and I don't think Signal mouthwash is still on the market. I always wanted to try the wreath, but never got around to doing it.

      Cheers!

      d.guffey


      From: Mary Shilman
      Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 9:33 AM
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern



      Hi -

      Basically you're right about how the example in the marblersapprentice was achieved. There is an initial dark drop, with a second light drop placed on the edge. There are several cross-wise, back and forth combs in the middle of the "stone" and then the stylus is pulled through from the light to dark.
      If you are more extreme in your side-to-side combing you can produce holly leaves (featured in an Ink & Gall in wreath form one year - I'll try to find it). You can also make beautiful feathers this way as well.

      Happy marbling.

      Mary Shilman

      ________________________________
      From: anthonianthonianthoni <anthonianthonianthoni@...<mailto:anthonianthonianthoni@...>>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:17 AM
      Subject: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern


      I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.* info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.

      however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.

      Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide me with more info/ examples?

      *the only sample I came across was this: http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm<http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm>

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • dixongarrett
      The Oak Leaf pattern (feuille de chene) is a variation of the Placard pattern dating to 18th century France and Germany. I cannot determine when the name was
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 14, 2011
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        The Oak Leaf pattern (feuille de chene) is a variation of the Placard pattern dating to 18th century France and Germany. I cannot determine when the name was given to the pattern because there is little written about these patterns and they were not used after the 18th century. Marie-Ange Doizy does refer to the pattern by that name in her book Le Papier Marbre published in 1985 but gives no history of the term. It was probably just attached to the pattern along the way because of its obvious leaf-like appearance. Diderot discusses the fabrication of the placard pattern as follows: throw down red to cover the size. Then throw down drops of blue in rows, five rows of blue with six spots od blue for each row. Throw down rows of green between the blue, five rows of green with six spots per row. Next put down rows of yellow spots between the green and blue, five or six spots per row. Finally, shower the size with small spots of white, "like lentils". Diderot adds that if you like you can then trace "palmes" (palm leaves) or "frisons" (curls). I assume the palm leaf refers to the oak leaf pattern, so technically we should be calling it the Palm Leaf Pattern. Interestingly, most versions that I have seen on old books don't follow the directions, I think because the individual spots of color are not as interesting to our eyes as when there is some contrast color with the base spot. What I do is put down rows of blue spots, somewhat widely spaced on a ground of red. Then I'll put down spots of green and yellow in a spot of blue (not bulls-eye but more random or asymmetrically), but leaving some blue spots open. Then shower with white, comb down with a 1/4" comb, and stylus through the spots to make the leaf pattern. A good example of the pattern is found in Nedim Sonmez book "Ebru", page 57 and that is the example I like to follow - it clearly does not follow Diderot's directions but is more attractive for Oak Leaf, in my opinion. As with all marbling there was constant variation of pattern (particularly with this pattern, although with most bindings you only see a small portion of the paper and so the overall layout of color is impossible to decifer for such a large pattern), however, the 17th and 18th century French and German patterns, as a rule, had much greater specificity as to how the colors should be laid down than later marbling.
        Garrett Dixon
        The Marbler's Apprentice


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.* info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.
        >
        > however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.
        >
        > Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide me with more info/ examples?
        >
        > *the only sample I came across was this: http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm
        >
      • irisnevins
        Thanks Garrett! Wonderful info! Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com ... From: dixongarrett To:
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 14, 2011
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          Thanks Garrett! Wonderful info!
          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: dixongarrett<mailto:dixong@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 10:08 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] Re: oak leaf pattern


          The Oak Leaf pattern (feuille de chene) is a variation of the Placard pattern dating to 18th century France and Germany. I cannot determine when the name was given to the pattern because there is little written about these patterns and they were not used after the 18th century. Marie-Ange Doizy does refer to the pattern by that name in her book Le Papier Marbre published in 1985 but gives no history of the term. It was probably just attached to the pattern along the way because of its obvious leaf-like appearance. Diderot discusses the fabrication of the placard pattern as follows: throw down red to cover the size. Then throw down drops of blue in rows, five rows of blue with six spots od blue for each row. Throw down rows of green between the blue, five rows of green with six spots per row. Next put down rows of yellow spots between the green and blue, five or six spots per row. Finally, shower the size with small spots of white, "like lentils". Diderot adds that if you
          like you can then trace "palmes" (palm leaves) or "frisons" (curls). I assume the palm leaf refers to the oak leaf pattern, so technically we should be calling it the Palm Leaf Pattern. Interestingly, most versions that I have seen on old books don't follow the directions, I think because the individual spots of color are not as interesting to our eyes as when there is some contrast color with the base spot. What I do is put down rows of blue spots, somewhat widely spaced on a ground of red. Then I'll put down spots of green and yellow in a spot of blue (not bulls-eye but more random or asymmetrically), but leaving some blue spots open. Then shower with white, comb down with a 1/4" comb, and stylus through the spots to make the leaf pattern. A good example of the pattern is found in Nedim Sonmez book "Ebru", page 57 and that is the example I like to follow - it clearly does not follow Diderot's directions but is more attractive for Oak Leaf, in my opinion. As with all
          marbling there was constant variation of pattern (particularly with this pattern, although with most bindings you only see a small portion of the paper and so the overall layout of color is impossible to decifer for such a large pattern), however, the 17th and 18th century French and German patterns, as a rule, had much greater specificity as to how the colors should be laid down than later marbling.
          Garrett Dixon
          The Marbler's Apprentice


          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.* info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.
          >
          > however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.
          >
          > Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide me with more info/ examples?
          >
          > *the only sample I came across was this: http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm<http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm>
          >




          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • anthonianthonianthoni
          wow... thanks very much for the quick and informative replys you gave to my query I can probably see why this pattern never really caught on. it is very easy
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 15, 2011
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            wow... thanks very much for the quick and informative replys you gave to my
            query
            I can probably see why this pattern never really caught on. it is very easy to mess up this pattern, giving you a blotchy paper. also, it is very troublesome to lay own the many drops of colour

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks Garrett! Wonderful info!
            > Iris Nevins
            > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: dixongarrett<mailto:dixong@...>
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 10:08 PM
            > Subject: [Marbling] Re: oak leaf pattern
            >
            >
            > The Oak Leaf pattern (feuille de chene) is a variation of the Placard pattern dating to 18th century France and Germany. I cannot determine when the name was given to the pattern because there is little written about these patterns and they were not used after the 18th century. Marie-Ange Doizy does refer to the pattern by that name in her book Le Papier Marbre published in 1985 but gives no history of the term. It was probably just attached to the pattern along the way because of its obvious leaf-like appearance. Diderot discusses the fabrication of the placard pattern as follows: throw down red to cover the size. Then throw down drops of blue in rows, five rows of blue with six spots od blue for each row. Throw down rows of green between the blue, five rows of green with six spots per row. Next put down rows of yellow spots between the green and blue, five or six spots per row. Finally, shower the size with small spots of white, "like lentils". Diderot adds that if you
            > like you can then trace "palmes" (palm leaves) or "frisons" (curls). I assume the palm leaf refers to the oak leaf pattern, so technically we should be calling it the Palm Leaf Pattern. Interestingly, most versions that I have seen on old books don't follow the directions, I think because the individual spots of color are not as interesting to our eyes as when there is some contrast color with the base spot. What I do is put down rows of blue spots, somewhat widely spaced on a ground of red. Then I'll put down spots of green and yellow in a spot of blue (not bulls-eye but more random or asymmetrically), but leaving some blue spots open. Then shower with white, comb down with a 1/4" comb, and stylus through the spots to make the leaf pattern. A good example of the pattern is found in Nedim Sonmez book "Ebru", page 57 and that is the example I like to follow - it clearly does not follow Diderot's directions but is more attractive for Oak Leaf, in my opinion. As with all
            > marbling there was constant variation of pattern (particularly with this pattern, although with most bindings you only see a small portion of the paper and so the overall layout of color is impossible to decifer for such a large pattern), however, the 17th and 18th century French and German patterns, as a rule, had much greater specificity as to how the colors should be laid down than later marbling.
            > Garrett Dixon
            > The Marbler's Apprentice
            >
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "anthonianthonianthoni" <anthonianthonianthoni@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.* info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.
            > >
            > > however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.
            > >
            > > Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide me with more info/ examples?
            > >
            > > *the only sample I came across was this: http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm<http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm>
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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