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question re: marbling on silk

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  • Gail
    Hi all, I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 5 8:00 AM
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      Hi all,
      I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can anyone help me with ways to return the silk back to that wonderful flowing fabric feel and look. Thanks in advance for you suggestions.
      bcgail

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • D or Jer Guffey
      Hi Gail, If you are using acrylics you don t need to heat set them. I marbled silk scarves for years and after rinsing off the size (as you do with paper) I
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 5 9:35 AM
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        Hi Gail,

        If you are using acrylics you don't need to heat set them. I marbled silk scarves for years and after rinsing off the size (as you do with paper) I hung them up to dry and then a few days later would lightly mist them and quickly and gently iron them with the iron set on the silk setting.

        Hope this solves the question...

        d.guffey


        From: Gail
        Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:00 AM
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk



        Hi all,
        I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can anyone help me with ways to return the silk back to that wonderful flowing fabric feel and look. Thanks in advance for you suggestions.
        bcgail

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • carylhanc@aol.com
        Hi, Gail, I marble silk scarves with Goldens as well, and I can think of a couple of things to consider. In my opinion, China silk (habotai) is always a
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 5 11:28 AM
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          Hi, Gail,
          I marble silk scarves with Goldens as well, and I can think of a couple of things to consider. In my opinion, China silk (habotai) is always a little stiffer than charmeuse or crepe, especially if you are using one with a higher momie. It may be that you need to rinse them a little more thoroughly to get the size off. And when all else fails, try giving them a final rinse with hair conditioner and/or a dilute vinegar solution to restore the natural acidity of silk that may have been altered by the alum.



          HTH!


          Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis


          -----Original Message-----
          From: D or Jer Guffey <dguff@...>
          To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:34 am
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk





          Hi Gail,

          If you are using acrylics you don't need to heat set them. I marbled silk scarves for years and after rinsing off the size (as you do with paper) I hung them up to dry and then a few days later would lightly mist them and quickly and gently iron them with the iron set on the silk setting.

          Hope this solves the question...

          d.guffey

          From: Gail
          Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:00 AM
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk

          Hi all,
          I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can anyone help me with ways to return the silk back to that wonderful flowing fabric feel and look. Thanks in advance for you suggestions.
          bcgail

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Linda
          HI all - for our silk marbling (or velveteen), we will sometimes do a final wash after heat setting in milsoft - also available from Dharma. That seems to
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 6 8:18 AM
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            HI all - for our silk marbling (or velveteen), we will sometimes do a final
            wash after heat setting in milsoft - also available from Dharma. That seems
            to restore the feel.
            Linda in Tucson
            --
            An Ancient Art Made Modern!
            Marble-T Design
            http://www.marbledfab.com
            Blog: http://marbledmusings.com
          • Deluwiel Xox
            Hi Gail - Here s my process: After lifting out of the marbling tank I dunk the fabric several times in a bucket of cool water to get as much of the size out as
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 7 5:38 AM
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              Hi Gail - Here's my process: After lifting out of the marbling tank I dunk the fabric several times in a bucket of cool water to get as much of the size out as possible, squeeze gently and hang to dry.  Once they've hung for a good 24-36 hours I heat set, then let them 'cure' for another 24 hours or so, then final wash in cold water and Synthrapol on delicate cycle in the machine.  Add a splash of plain white vinegar to the final rinse.  Dry in dryer on low heat setting and final ironing results in nice, soft drapey scarves.  If the marbling coverage is heavier (more paint colors or over-marbled) the fabric may end up with a different 'hand', a little more texture, but not stiff.  I'm having so much fun with these!  Good luck!



              ________________________________
              From: Gail <bcgail@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 9:00 AM
              Subject: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk


               
              Hi all,
              I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can anyone help me with ways to return the silk back to that wonderful flowing fabric feel and look. Thanks in advance for you suggestions.
              bcgail

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • irisnevins
              I also rinse in a bucket of cold water gently swishing the fabric around. Anything rough can scuff the surface design. Hang up without wringing out. I put
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 7 6:30 AM
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                I also rinse in a bucket of cold water gently swishing the fabric around. Anything rough can scuff the surface design. Hang up without wringing out. I put plastic trays under them to catch the water. Next day when dry, I iron them flat to package them. They are a little crisper than originally before marbling, but pretty nice and soft. It's sort of a very lightly starched feeling, very light. I do not use Goldens though, but rather, the cheap "junk" so called, from A.C.Moore, Michael's Walmart etc. Either Folk Art or Ceram Coat. They leave things soft. You may want to dilute that paint just slightly but not much....sometimes it's a little thick in acrylic paste, and as with all commercial paints, you have to test them before you marble. Sometimes they add more dispersant to one batch of a color than the last batch, so there are inconsistencies. If you fins a batch you like, take down the lot number and go buy as many as you can. For about a dollar or so a bottle, why not. I use a basic red, yellow, blue, black, white. I mix from there. The fewer bottles you start with, the better you can trace problems back to one.
                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 8:38 AM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk


                Hi Gail - Here's my process: After lifting out of the marbling tank I dunk the fabric several times in a bucket of cool water to get as much of the size out as possible, squeeze gently and hang to dry. Once they've hung for a good 24-36 hours I heat set, then let them 'cure' for another 24 hours or so, then final wash in cold water and Synthrapol on delicate cycle in the machine. Add a splash of plain white vinegar to the final rinse. Dry in dryer on low heat setting and final ironing results in nice, soft drapey scarves. If the marbling coverage is heavier (more paint colors or over-marbled) the fabric may end up with a different 'hand', a little more texture, but not stiff. I'm having so much fun with these! Good luck!



                ________________________________
                From: Gail <bcgail@...<mailto:bcgail@...>>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 9:00 AM
                Subject: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk



                Hi all,
                I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can anyone help me with ways to return the silk back to that wonderful flowing fabric feel and look. Thanks in advance for you suggestions.
                bcgail

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Deluwiel Xox
                Iris - I started with Jacquard airbrush paints and was getting kind of washed out colors.  I had researched marbling on silk and found so many recommendations
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 9 7:01 AM
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                  Iris - I started with Jacquard airbrush paints and was getting kind of washed out colors.  I had researched marbling on silk and found so many recommendations to use Golden acrylics for brighter, more vibrant color and that's what I went with.  I wonder now, after a lot more trial and error, if my size was too thin and the colors were spreading too much.  Anyway, I had no clue you could use plain old craft paint!  You don't have to heat set those in any way to keep color intact?  I seem to remember that you mentioned that you use carageen size - have you found that the acrylics perform differently or better on that than methocel?  I had started with carageen and had the problems with the pale colors, but now that I have a much better feel for what the consistency should be do you think there's a clear advantage to switching back?


                  Deb


                  ________________________________
                  From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 7:30 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk


                   
                  I also rinse in a bucket of cold water gently swishing the fabric around. Anything rough can scuff the surface design. Hang up without wringing out. I put plastic trays under them to catch the water. Next day when dry, I iron them flat to package them. They are a little crisper than originally before marbling, but pretty nice and soft. It's sort of a very lightly starched feeling, very light. I do not use Goldens though, but rather, the cheap "junk" so called, from A.C.Moore, Michael's Walmart etc. Either Folk Art or Ceram Coat. They leave things soft. You may want to dilute that paint just slightly but not much....sometimes it's a little thick in acrylic paste, and as with all commercial paints, you have to test them before you marble. Sometimes they add more dispersant to one batch of a color than the last batch, so there are inconsistencies. If you fins a batch you like, take down the lot number and go buy as many as you can. For about a dollar or so
                  a bottle, why not. I use a basic red, yellow, blue, black, white. I mix from there. The fewer bottles you start with, the better you can trace problems back to one.
                  Iris Nevins
                  www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 8:38 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk

                  Hi Gail - Here's my process: After lifting out of the marbling tank I dunk the fabric several times in a bucket of cool water to get as much of the size out as possible, squeeze gently and hang to dry. Once they've hung for a good 24-36 hours I heat set, then let them 'cure' for another 24 hours or so, then final wash in cold water and Synthrapol on delicate cycle in the machine. Add a splash of plain white vinegar to the final rinse. Dry in dryer on low heat setting and final ironing results in nice, soft drapey scarves. If the marbling coverage is heavier (more paint colors or over-marbled) the fabric may end up with a different 'hand', a little more texture, but not stiff. I'm having so much fun with these! Good luck!

                  ________________________________
                  From: Gail <bcgail@...<mailto:bcgail@...>>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 9:00 AM
                  Subject: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk

                  Hi all,
                  I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can anyone help me with ways to return the silk back to that wonderful flowing fabric feel and look. Thanks in advance for you suggestions.
                  bcgail

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • irisnevins
                  I m the wrong one to ask about methyl-cel Deb. Hate it. Compared to Carrageenan that is. Sure it lasts longer, but you can make just enough of the carrageenan
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 9 7:33 AM
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                    I'm the wrong one to ask about methyl-cel Deb. Hate it. Compared to Carrageenan that is. Sure it lasts longer, but you can make just enough of the carrageenan you need for the day, or even in most weather hold it over another day or two and add some fresh to top it off. I can't stand also looking at dirty used size first thing in the AM and love a clean fresh batch. I find carrageenan much easier to manage, and definitely better for watercolor. I don't use acrylic much, only for fabric now and again. Never on paper, watercolor lets you make more patterns like the French Shell, the 3-d effect you get with it etc.

                    I have been marbling over 33 years, which means no one was around to teach me back then, not that I knew of anyway. So I played with everything til it worked or didn't. The Ceram Coat was so cooperative, and the Folk Art I tried later and it worked. Still, keep in mind not all the colors or batches of it work well. Best to find a few primary colors that work and mix. If they work, buy up all you can of that lot #. At 88 cents a bottle why not. You may need to thicken the size a little and try again if too thin. You can always water it down. If colors are pale you can condense them into near veins with a few drops of Photo-flo mixed with water, then draw the pattern. It lets some of the fabric color show through too for a nice contrast. No problem with pale colors. I don't heat set them purposely, but they do need ironing after marbling so they do get heat set. I don't pre-wash silks either, never have, the alum rinse in the bucket likely takes out whatever if anything is there. No one told me how to marble, for watercolor or acrylic, and I like to simplify and use cheap stuff if it works, even if it has no glamor appeal associated with it. Sometimes people make it too complicated. Marbling is temperamental for sure, but try the easiest ways first, they may just work. I have been told I marble wrong more than a few times, but if so, why does it work. And with the world's likeliest hardest water as well. Doesn't work any better with soft rainwater or distilled or whatever, you just need a teeny bit more size powder with the hard water to get the same viscosity. I measure nothing, just do it by feel, If it works one day, remember how it felt. Taking notes is next to useless, because if the weather is different another day it will change everything, so go by feel. My next article for the Guild Of Bookworkers Journal is on the rainwater (collected during Irene, with the power out!) vs. my hard tap water. I liked the tap water better. In case any of you get that. If not, I am not sure if it is on their site, back articles. It's all stuff we have covered here over the years though.
                    Iris Nevins
                    www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:01 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk


                    Iris - I started with Jacquard airbrush paints and was getting kind of washed out colors. I had researched marbling on silk and found so many recommendations to use Golden acrylics for brighter, more vibrant color and that's what I went with. I wonder now, after a lot more trial and error, if my size was too thin and the colors were spreading too much. Anyway, I had no clue you could use plain old craft paint! You don't have to heat set those in any way to keep color intact? I seem to remember that you mentioned that you use carageen size - have you found that the acrylics perform differently or better on that than methocel? I had started with carageen and had the problems with the pale colors, but now that I have a much better feel for what the consistency should be do you think there's a clear advantage to switching back?


                    Deb


                    ________________________________
                    From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 7:30 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk



                    I also rinse in a bucket of cold water gently swishing the fabric around. Anything rough can scuff the surface design. Hang up without wringing out. I put plastic trays under them to catch the water. Next day when dry, I iron them flat to package them. They are a little crisper than originally before marbling, but pretty nice and soft. It's sort of a very lightly starched feeling, very light. I do not use Goldens though, but rather, the cheap "junk" so called, from A.C.Moore, Michael's Walmart etc. Either Folk Art or Ceram Coat. They leave things soft. You may want to dilute that paint just slightly but not much....sometimes it's a little thick in acrylic paste, and as with all commercial paints, you have to test them before you marble. Sometimes they add more dispersant to one batch of a color than the last batch, so there are inconsistencies. If you fins a batch you like, take down the lot number and go buy as many as you can. For about a dollar or so
                    a bottle, why not. I use a basic red, yellow, blue, black, white. I mix from there. The fewer bottles you start with, the better you can trace problems back to one.
                    Iris Nevins
                    www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com%3chttp//www.marblingpaper.com/>>

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>>
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 8:38 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk

                    Hi Gail - Here's my process: After lifting out of the marbling tank I dunk the fabric several times in a bucket of cool water to get as much of the size out as possible, squeeze gently and hang to dry. Once they've hung for a good 24-36 hours I heat set, then let them 'cure' for another 24 hours or so, then final wash in cold water and Synthrapol on delicate cycle in the machine. Add a splash of plain white vinegar to the final rinse. Dry in dryer on low heat setting and final ironing results in nice, soft drapey scarves. If the marbling coverage is heavier (more paint colors or over-marbled) the fabric may end up with a different 'hand', a little more texture, but not stiff. I'm having so much fun with these! Good luck!

                    ________________________________
                    From: Gail <bcgail@...<mailto:bcgail@...<mailto:bcgail@...%3Cmailto:bcgail@...>>>
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                    Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 9:00 AM
                    Subject: [Marbling] question re: marbling on silk

                    Hi all,
                    I have been marbling on the china silk scarf blanks. Some of them are stiff after I heat set them. I used golden fluid acrylics to marble them. Can anyone help me with ways to return the silk back to that wonderful flowing fabric feel and look. Thanks in advance for you suggestions.
                    bcgail

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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