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Re: DIRECTIONS TO USE OX-GALL... HELP

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  • savazi2004
    Well I see there is a big controversy obout using ox-gall with acrylics for marbling, maybe this is due the variety of formulas of acrylic colors, and their
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
      Well I see there is a big controversy obout using ox-gall with acrylics for marbling, maybe this is due the variety of formulas of acrylic colors, and their variations... I use a mak called GIOTTO here in Italy and PolyColor too... someone has already experimented with those marks of acrylics?? Thank you in advance!

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have had great success using gall with acrylics. Generally I add it a drop at a time until the paint spreads on the carafe an or at least does not plop in a blob on the bottom of the tray. Easy to use!
      > Nancy Akerly
      > Liberty Grove Paper Arts
      > http//web.me.com/nakerly
      >
      > Sent from my iPod
      >
      > On Apr 12, 2011, at 9:35 AM, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I have never used oxgall when using acrylics, there really isn't any need. Acrylics have a built-in dispersant (the function of oxgall) in them. How well a color floats and spreads is dependent on the individual tube of paint and, unfortunately, this changes constantly as paint manufacturers change their formulas from year to year. Some colors are "chasers" that is, it moves the first color across the tank...reverse the process, put that color on first and then another color and it works fine. Experiment with the order in which you apply your colors and you will see different results. I've been marbling with commercial acrylics (Liquitex and Utrecht) for 35 years with fine results. Not all colors work, you just have to experiment to find those that do and hope they don't change the formula by the time you purchase that color again!
      > >
      > > d.guffey
      > >
      > > From: savazi2004
      > > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:52 PM
      > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [Marbling] DIRECTIONS TO USE OX-GALL... HELP
      > >
      > > Hello to all the member's list... I made some marbled papers buy without using ox-gall to dilute the colours because I don't know how to use it...
      > >
      > > The colors I use are acrylics, I use water to dilute them but I don't know well how many ox-gall drops to use to reach the correct dispersion on the size... Specially when I need to put a second or third color upon another one...
      > >
      > > Must the ox-gall be diluted? I bought ox gall on art shop...
      > >
      > > Can someone experimented user to help me, giving me some directions on the right way to use it? Thank you in adavance...
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • D or Jer Guffey
      I have had more success using carragheenan as a size rather than methelcel when using acrylics. By the way...does anyone know the definitive spelling of
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
        I have had more success using carragheenan as a size rather than methelcel when using acrylics.

        By the way...does anyone know the definitive spelling of "carragheenan" which I have seen spelt a number of different ways.

        d.guffey


        From: savazi2004
        Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:25 AM
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Marbling] Re: DIRECTIONS TO USE OX-GALL... HELP



        Thank You! in fact the principal problem I have is that some colors doesn't work well one upon the other, because for example generally the fisrt color I drop on the size spread well but some colors doesn't spread well upon the first, and they tend to sink down... I dilute my acrylics only with water, and the size I prepare is with methocell...I've done some tentatives to do Ebru (tulips basically) but I can't due this problem...

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have never used oxgall when using acrylics, there really isn't any need. Acrylics have a built-in dispersant (the function of oxgall) in them. How well a color floats and spreads is dependent on the individual tube of paint and, unfortunately, this changes constantly as paint manufacturers change their formulas from year to year. Some colors are "chasers" that is, it moves the first color across the tank...reverse the process, put that color on first and then another color and it works fine. Experiment with the order in which you apply your colors and you will see different results. I've been marbling with commercial acrylics (Liquitex and Utrecht) for 35 years with fine results. Not all colors work, you just have to experiment to find those that do and hope they don't change the formula by the time you purchase that color again!
        >
        > d.guffey
        >
        >
        >
        > From: savazi2004
        > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:52 PM
        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Marbling] DIRECTIONS TO USE OX-GALL... HELP
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello to all the member's list... I made some marbled papers buy without using ox-gall to dilute the colours because I don't know how to use it...
        >
        > The colors I use are acrylics, I use water to dilute them but I don't know well how many ox-gall drops to use to reach the correct dispersion on the size... Specially when I need to put a second or third color upon another one...
        >
        > Must the ox-gall be diluted? I bought ox gall on art shop...
        >
        > Can someone experimented user to help me, giving me some directions on the right way to use it? Thank you in adavance...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
        Hi Dolores, I consulted a biologist friend when I published International Decorated Paper and learned that the weed is caragheen and the substance
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
          Hi Dolores,

          I consulted a biologist friend when I published 'International Decorated Paper' and learned that the weed is caragheen and the substance caragheenan.

          Susanne Krause
        • irisnevins
          I m with you...can t stand MC! I know it keeps better but why reuse filthy old size the next day or days later. I can t think of much more of a depressing work
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
            I'm with you...can't stand MC! I know it keeps better but why reuse filthy old size the next day or days later. I can't think of much more of a depressing work turnoff, I like to start with nice new clean size first thing in the morning, just makes me smile. I only mix up as much as I will use in a day, you don't have to add amonia or whatever, just go. I even use horribly hard water, no big deal whatsoever.
            Speaking of which...I nearly forgot to make it today for tomorrow, thanks for the reminder!! Had the chimney repair AND locksmith here already today and it slipped my mind entirely! Down to the marbling dungeon for me right now..... Or else I don't work tomorrow!

            The problem with the acrylics the former writer has is you need to balance them with photo flo or whatever, and possibly switch brands. I always found acrylics just naturally to spread way too much to do a nice flower Ebru. Try watercolor, it's the traditional way anyhow. There is a reason people stick with it. And use watercolor that is made for marbling. Store brands too, or gouache, may at times also have too much dispersant.

            "Carrageenan" goes in without the spell check correcting me! I have seen with the H to though!
            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: D or Jer Guffey<mailto:dguff@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:09 AM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: DIRECTIONS TO USE OX-GALL... HELP


            I have had more success using carragheenan as a size rather than methelcel when using acrylics.

            By the way...does anyone know the definitive spelling of "carragheenan" which I have seen spelt a number of different ways.

            d.guffey


            From: savazi2004
            Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:25 AM
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: DIRECTIONS TO USE OX-GALL... HELP



            Thank You! in fact the principal problem I have is that some colors doesn't work well one upon the other, because for example generally the fisrt color I drop on the size spread well but some colors doesn't spread well upon the first, and they tend to sink down... I dilute my acrylics only with water, and the size I prepare is with methocell...I've done some tentatives to do Ebru (tulips basically) but I can't due this problem...

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have never used oxgall when using acrylics, there really isn't any need. Acrylics have a built-in dispersant (the function of oxgall) in them. How well a color floats and spreads is dependent on the individual tube of paint and, unfortunately, this changes constantly as paint manufacturers change their formulas from year to year. Some colors are "chasers" that is, it moves the first color across the tank...reverse the process, put that color on first and then another color and it works fine. Experiment with the order in which you apply your colors and you will see different results. I've been marbling with commercial acrylics (Liquitex and Utrecht) for 35 years with fine results. Not all colors work, you just have to experiment to find those that do and hope they don't change the formula by the time you purchase that color again!
            >
            > d.guffey
            >
            >
            >
            > From: savazi2004
            > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:52 PM
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: [Marbling] DIRECTIONS TO USE OX-GALL... HELP
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello to all the member's list... I made some marbled papers buy without using ox-gall to dilute the colours because I don't know how to use it...
            >
            > The colors I use are acrylics, I use water to dilute them but I don't know well how many ox-gall drops to use to reach the correct dispersion on the size... Specially when I need to put a second or third color upon another one...
            >
            > Must the ox-gall be diluted? I bought ox gall on art shop...
            >
            > Can someone experimented user to help me, giving me some directions on the right way to use it? Thank you in adavance...
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nancy Akerly
            And sadly, when you type caragheenan on an iPod Touch, it changes it to carafe. Sigh. Nancy Akerly Liberty Grov Paper Arts
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 13, 2011
              And sadly, when you type caragheenan on an iPod Touch, it changes it to' carafe.' Sigh.
              Nancy Akerly
              Liberty Grov Paper Arts
              http://web.me.com/nakerly/Site/Liberty_Grove_Paper_Arts.html


              On Apr 13, 2011, at 10:27 AM, hamburgerbuntpapier_de wrote:

              > Hi Dolores,
              >
              > I consulted a biologist friend when I published 'International Decorated Paper' and learned that the weed is caragheen and the substance caragheenan.
              >
              > Susanne Krause
              >
              >



              Nancy Akerly
              http://web.me.com/nakerly/Site/Liberty_Grove_Paper_Arts.html



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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