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Re: [Marbling] Re: marbling with oil

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  • irisnevins
    Sue....it was WATERCOLOR that preceded acrylics. Oils were used before them too... unless you are specifically talking fabric. I believe Charles Woolnough was
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 14, 2011
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      Sue....it was WATERCOLOR that preceded acrylics. Oils were used before them too... unless you are specifically talking fabric. I believe Charles Woolnough was the first to marble fabric, in the form of bookbinding cloth. I believe he used watercolor, this was about 1870 or thereabouts.

      I am not an oil marbler, though my first experiments were with oil. I quickly moved on to teach myself watercolor marbling, with handfuls of dried seaweed, boiled.... all with the aid of some Rosamond Loring book Xeroxes from a rare books librarian friend, and after months of failure it suddenly worked. I found oil marbling very difficult to get even passable results.... I think it is just hard, and that is why there are few masters of oil marbling, such as Katherine Radcliffe from NYC. She would have the answers, but as far as I know is not on this group. The thing is she in no way is trying to produce traditional style book paper patterns with it, but works brilliantly with the natural flow of what the oils want to do.

      We didn't have all this "stuff" like synthetic thinckeners, or synthrapol type stuff. No fussing about the minerals or not in the water, no extreme meticulousness, etc. I still maintain this simplistic attitude toward traditional marbling and it works. If all this stuff, and I have tried a fair amount, made marbling any easier for me I'd be the first to change, but I see not difference beyond complicating what I have done for 33 years. Not knocking any of it, if it works for people they should use it.

      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:41 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: marbling with oil


      If you wat the video called "Just Colour" that I posted they do their
      material with oil colors. Oil was the original method used before acrylics
      came on the scene, but I don't know much about it for fabric - what to thin
      it with or how to finish the fabric. Most people that I know of nowadays
      use acrylics for fabric. Maybe Iris would have some input, or Diane Maurer
      - they are the experts on here.
      Sue


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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    • robinstinker
      I ve had to alum my inkjet paper, at least the cheaper kind. With no alum, the paint seemed to stay on OK, but then as it was left to dry it got kind of
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 19, 2011
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        I've had to alum my inkjet paper, at least the cheaper kind. With no alum, the paint seemed to stay on OK, but then as it was left to dry it got kind of muddy-looking and runny. I use cheap paper a lot for testing. The thin paper is kind of nice for getting a wavy effect - it's easier to manipulate. However I think it's too thin for lighter, more transparent colors. I seem to get shadowy areas from paint/size getting on the back of the paper.

        The heavier inkjet paper for photos doesn't seem to need alum, but I don't like the stiffness of the paper.

        Robin

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
        >
        > Has anyone gotten onto the fact that best quality inkjet paper, you can marble (please test for the coated side!) with NO ALUM! Great if you marble 8 1/2 X 11 or up to 17 X 13 or some such size,.... that's generally available in Staples. You can go up to 18 X 24, I think Epson and HP make them....not cheap per sheet, maybe $1.00 at that size. I am wary of the weight though, seems kind of thin.The smaller papers are for sure, but not unyeildy when wet. Would that we could skip alum altogether! The small sizes, great for small projects, or kids.
        > Iris Nevins
        > www.marblinpaper.com<http://www.marblinpaper.com/>
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: D or Jer Guffey<mailto:dguff@...>
        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:49 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: marbling with oil
        >
        >
        > The only advantage of marbling with oil paints is that you don't have to alum (either fabric or paper). But the disadvantages are greater. Oil paint is messy, and has to be thinned with paint thinner or turpentine to make it the right consistency. Also, oil paints permeate the paper (goes through to the back side) whereas paper which has been treated with alum for acrylic paints (or marbling inks) lets the color sit on top (pigments bind with the alum to make a chemical bond). You cannot get as fine a line and detail with oil paints as you can with acrylics. I gave up oil paint marbling when I discovered acrylics. Cleaner, not so toxic, and much easier to clean up.
        >
        > As for finishing the fabric after oil paint, all you do is rinse, line dry, and then iron. No need to do additional heat setting, as the oil paint is thoroughly ingrained in the fabric.
        >
        > Hope this helps.
        >
        > d.guffey
        >
        >
        > From: Sue Cole
        > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:41 PM
        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [Marbling] Re: marbling with oil
        >
        >
        >
        > If you wat the video called "Just Colour" that I posted they do their
        > material with oil colors. Oil was the original method used before acrylics
        > came on the scene, but I don't know much about it for fabric - what to thin
        > it with or how to finish the fabric. Most people that I know of nowadays
        > use acrylics for fabric. Maybe Iris would have some input, or Diane Maurer
        > - they are the experts on here.
        > Sue
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • irisnevins
        you need the premium type of inkjet. You can also get light weight photo paper, which is fun. You need the high test coating! You also have to try both sides,
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 19, 2011
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          you need the premium type of inkjet. You can also get light weight photo paper, which is fun. You need the high test coating! You also have to try both sides, some of them have a good side and bad side, can't tell by looking.
          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: robinstinker<mailto:robinstinker@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 11:38 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] Re: marbling with oil


          I've had to alum my inkjet paper, at least the cheaper kind. With no alum, the paint seemed to stay on OK, but then as it was left to dry it got kind of muddy-looking and runny. I use cheap paper a lot for testing. The thin paper is kind of nice for getting a wavy effect - it's easier to manipulate. However I think it's too thin for lighter, more transparent colors. I seem to get shadowy areas from paint/size getting on the back of the paper.

          The heavier inkjet paper for photos doesn't seem to need alum, but I don't like the stiffness of the paper.

          Robin

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
          >
          > Has anyone gotten onto the fact that best quality inkjet paper, you can marble (please test for the coated side!) with NO ALUM! Great if you marble 8 1/2 X 11 or up to 17 X 13 or some such size,.... that's generally available in Staples. You can go up to 18 X 24, I think Epson and HP make them....not cheap per sheet, maybe $1.00 at that size. I am wary of the weight though, seems kind of thin.The smaller papers are for sure, but not unyeildy when wet. Would that we could skip alum altogether! The small sizes, great for small projects, or kids.
          > Iris Nevins
          > www.marblinpaper.com<http://www.marblinpaper.com/<http://www.marblinpaper.com%3chttp//www.marblinpaper.com/>>
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: D or Jer Guffey<mailto:dguff<mailto:dguff>@...>
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
          > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:49 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: marbling with oil
          >
          >
          > The only advantage of marbling with oil paints is that you don't have to alum (either fabric or paper). But the disadvantages are greater. Oil paint is messy, and has to be thinned with paint thinner or turpentine to make it the right consistency. Also, oil paints permeate the paper (goes through to the back side) whereas paper which has been treated with alum for acrylic paints (or marbling inks) lets the color sit on top (pigments bind with the alum to make a chemical bond). You cannot get as fine a line and detail with oil paints as you can with acrylics. I gave up oil paint marbling when I discovered acrylics. Cleaner, not so toxic, and much easier to clean up.
          >
          > As for finishing the fabric after oil paint, all you do is rinse, line dry, and then iron. No need to do additional heat setting, as the oil paint is thoroughly ingrained in the fabric.
          >
          > Hope this helps.
          >
          > d.guffey
          >
          >
          > From: Sue Cole
          > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:41 PM
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
          > Subject: [Marbling] Re: marbling with oil
          >
          >
          >
          > If you wat the video called "Just Colour" that I posted they do their
          > material with oil colors. Oil was the original method used before acrylics
          > came on the scene, but I don't know much about it for fabric - what to thin
          > it with or how to finish the fabric. Most people that I know of nowadays
          > use acrylics for fabric. Maybe Iris would have some input, or Diane Maurer
          > - they are the experts on here.
          > Sue
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




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