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Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

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  • Deluwiel Xox
    What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking?  ... From: marines bengoa Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 10 7:16 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking? 

      --- On Thu, 2/10/11, marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...> wrote:

      From: marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...>
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:15 PM







       









      I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good

      price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash

      scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get

      rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get

      the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.



      I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than

      carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in

      the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and

      remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a

      squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if

      any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.



      I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per

      gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry

      in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that

      the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.

      Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!



      After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.

      Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft

      (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 



      I hope this helps!!! 



      ________________________________

      From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM

      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



       

      I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I

      suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,

      but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually

      way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good

      results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err

      on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about

      washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never

      experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak

      for all fabrics. Better to be safe.



      I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I

      believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have

      not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,

      was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a

      minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing

      that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then

      ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with

      synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got

      remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.



      To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most

      efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never

      occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has

      always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm

      swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.

      Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always

      swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was

      left pink.



      Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN

      ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing

      take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.



      Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be

      interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just

      swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,

      depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone

      wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.



      Sign me,

      Queen Of The Shortcut

      Iris Nevins

      www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>



      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>

      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

      Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM

      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



      yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the

      wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to

      someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around

      on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)



      Deb



      --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

      wrote:



      From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

      Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk

      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

      Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM



      you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves



      first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry



      and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher



      both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through



      www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her

      site direct. You can also



      look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.



      Sue



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------



      Yahoo! Groups Links



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
























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    • marines bengoa
      That s difficult for me to explain because I just feel it and know. About the consistency of milk, some books say.     ________________________________ From:
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 11 3:47 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        That's difficult for me to explain because I just feel it and know. About the
        consistency of milk, some books say.

         
         



        ________________________________
        From: Deluwiel Xox <deluwiel1209@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 10:16:16 PM
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

         
        What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking? 

        --- On Thu, 2/10/11, marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...> wrote:

        From: marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...>
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:15 PM

         

        I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good

        price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash

        scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get

        rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get

        the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.

        I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than

        carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in

        the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and

        remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a

        squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if

        any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.

        I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per


        gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry

        in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that

        the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.


        Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!

        After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.

        Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft

        (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 

        I hope this helps!!! 

        ________________________________

        From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com

        Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM

        Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

         

        I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I

        suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,


        but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually


        way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good

        results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err

        on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about

        washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never

        experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak

        for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

        I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I

        believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have

        not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,

        was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a

        minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing

        that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then


        ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with

        synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got

        remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

        To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most

        efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never

        occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has

        always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm

        swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.

        Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always


        swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was

        left pink.

        Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN

        ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing


        take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

        Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be

        interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just

        swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,

        depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone

        wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

        Sign me,

        Queen Of The Shortcut

        Iris Nevins

        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>

        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

        Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM

        Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

        yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the

        wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to

        someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around


        on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

        Deb

        --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

        wrote:

        From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

        Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk

        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

        Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

        you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

        first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

        and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

        both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

        www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her

        site direct. You can also

        look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

        Sue

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        __________________________________________________________
        Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
        in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
        http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Don't pick lemons.
        See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
        http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • kmokri
        When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 22 4:38 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
          >
          > I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).
          >
          > d.guffey
          >
          >
          > From: irisnevins
          > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:39 PM
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
          >
          >
          >
          > I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.
          >
          > I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.
          >
          > To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.
          >
          > Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.
          >
          > Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.
          >
          > Sign me,
          > Queen Of The Shortcut
          > Iris Nevins
          > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
          >
          > yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)
          >
          > Deb
          >
          > --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>> wrote:
          >
          > From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
          > Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM
          >
          > you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves
          >
          > first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry
          >
          > and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher
          >
          > both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through
          >
          > www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also
          >
          > look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.
          >
          > Sue
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • D or Jer Guffey
          I use acrylics just as is, the same that I use for paper marbling and nothing else added. I marble mostly with Liquitex and Utretch tube paints thinned with
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 22 7:58 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            I use acrylics just as is, the same that I use for paper marbling and nothing else added. I marble mostly with Liquitex and Utretch tube paints thinned with water to the correct consistency.

            d.guffey


            From: kmokri
            Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:38 AM
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: marbling on silk



            When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
            >
            > I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).
            >
            > d.guffey
            >
            >
            >

            Visit Your Group
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sue Cole
            I can only answer froom my experiences. I use flat crepe pre hemmed silk scarves from Dharma Trading so it will show on both sides. It is still slightly
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 15, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I can only answer froom my experiences.  I use flat crepe pre hemmed silk scarves from Dharma Trading so it will show on both sides.  It is still slightly darker on the front, but does show on both sides.  The silk satin felt nicer, but as you said, it only showed the pattern on the front side.

              You didn't say, but i assume you are putting the scarves in an alum solution first.  I let them soak in the solution for at least a half hour, then spin out the excess in my washing machine and let them hang to dry, then iron them before marbling to get rid of any creases.

              I've been experimenting with using vinegar in my rinse in the washing machine because that is supposed to make them shinier and it does seem to help.  Golden makes a GAC 900 for fabric, but I didn't find that it made any difference.

              When I lay them in the marbling tank, I do run my finger around the edges to make sure they get printed, then I rinse them in two buckets of water and hang to dry for 24 hours. I try to marble outside as much as possible because when I do it in the house, I have to put towels down everywhere, but it's too cold of course in the winter time here to do it outside after September.

              After I let them dry, I heat set them in a drier with an old pair of jeans or a towel so they don't tangle so much for a half hour, then wash them in the washer on a short, delicate cycle and dry them again.  I have also tried ironing them to heat set them before washing them.  I would be concerned about putting them in the oven.

              I do a large number of scarves, so have switched to using methyl cellulose because the carageenan goes bad so quickly here in the summer - it gets to 90, believe it or not.

              I have used several brands of paints, most work.

              I do have problems with them tangling in the washing machine.  I've tried net bags and several other things, but they still do it.  I spray them with a water misting bottle on the creases, then use a spray sizing and they seem to be fine.  I have not experience a problem with permanent creases in the scarves.  I use a hot steam iron on them also.  The marbling has never come off in the machine.  Because I'm doing a high volume of them, I don't wash them by hand, and also want to make sure they are not going to fade any further after they leave me is the other reason why I do them that way.

              The only way the marbling would come off is if you didn't use alum or used too weak a solution of alum would be my opinion.  

              So far I have been unsuccessful in marbling on stretched canvas - if anyone has any suggestions, I would be glad to hear them.  I also experimented and marbled on some 4 x 4" travertine tiles, and they worked fine without alum, also some white polyester ribbon worked well without alum.

              Don't know if Iris or Pat will contribute their views,  Hope this was of some help.
              Sue Cole
              Fairbanks, Alaska
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