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Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

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  • marines bengoa
    I get my scarves at Dharma and I never prewash. I use marbo gum form Prochem. It is less expensive ________________________________ From: irisnevins
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I get my scarves at Dharma and I never prewash. I use marbo gum form Prochem. It
      is less expensive





      ________________________________
      From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

       
      I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I
      suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,
      but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually
      way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good
      results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err
      on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about
      washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never
      experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak
      for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

      I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I
      believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have
      not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,
      was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a
      minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing
      that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then
      ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with
      synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got
      remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.


      To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most
      efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never
      occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has
      always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm
      swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.
      Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always
      swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was
      left pink.

      Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN
      ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing
      take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.


      Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be
      interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just
      swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,
      depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone
      wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.


      Sign me,
      Queen Of The Shortcut
      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

      yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the
      wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to
      someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around
      on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

      Deb

      --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
      wrote:

      From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
      Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

      you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

      first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

      and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

      both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

      www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her
      site direct. You can also

      look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

      Sue

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • D or Jer Guffey
      I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).

        d.guffey


        From: irisnevins
        Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:39 PM
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



        I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

        I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

        To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.

        Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

        Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

        Sign me,
        Queen Of The Shortcut
        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

        yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

        Deb

        --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>> wrote:

        From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
        Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

        you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

        first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

        and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

        both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

        www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also

        look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

        Sue

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • irisnevins
        Whew....thank heavens I am not crazy after all...LOL! Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com ... From: D or Jer Guffey To:
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Whew....thank heavens I am not crazy after all...LOL!
          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: D or Jer Guffey<mailto:dguff@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:22 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk


          I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).

          d.guffey


          From: irisnevins
          Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:39 PM
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



          I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

          I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

          To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.

          Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

          Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

          Sign me,
          Queen Of The Shortcut
          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com%3chttp//www.marblingpaper.com/>>

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
          Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

          yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

          Deb

          --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...%3Cmailto:akartisan@...>>> wrote:

          From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...%3Cmailto:akartisan@...>>>
          Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
          Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

          you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

          first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

          and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

          both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

          www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/<http://www.dharmatrading.com%3chttp//www.dharmatrading.com/>> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also

          look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

          Sue

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • marines bengoa
          I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good
            price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash
            scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get
            rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get
            the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.

            I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than
            carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in
            the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and
            remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a
            squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if
            any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.

            I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per
            gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry
            in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that
            the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.
            Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!


            After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.
            Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft
            (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 

            I hope this helps!!! 



            ________________________________
            From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

             
            I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I
            suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,
            but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually
            way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good
            results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err
            on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about
            washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never
            experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak
            for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

            I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I
            believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have
            not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,
            was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a
            minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing
            that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then
            ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with
            synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got
            remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.


            To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most
            efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never
            occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has
            always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm
            swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.
            Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always
            swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was
            left pink.

            Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN
            ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing
            take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.


            Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be
            interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just
            swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,
            depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone
            wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.


            Sign me,
            Queen Of The Shortcut
            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

            yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the
            wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to
            someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around
            on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

            Deb

            --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
            wrote:

            From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
            Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

            you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

            first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

            and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

            both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

            www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her
            site direct. You can also

            look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

            Sue

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Deluwiel Xox
            What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking?  ... From: marines bengoa Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking? 

              --- On Thu, 2/10/11, marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...> wrote:

              From: marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...>
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:15 PM







               









              I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good

              price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash

              scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get

              rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get

              the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.



              I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than

              carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in

              the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and

              remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a

              squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if

              any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.



              I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per

              gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry

              in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that

              the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.

              Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!



              After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.

              Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft

              (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 



              I hope this helps!!! 



              ________________________________

              From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com

              Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM

              Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



               

              I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I

              suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,

              but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually

              way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good

              results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err

              on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about

              washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never

              experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak

              for all fabrics. Better to be safe.



              I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I

              believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have

              not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,

              was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a

              minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing

              that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then

              ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with

              synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got

              remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.



              To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most

              efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never

              occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has

              always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm

              swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.

              Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always

              swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was

              left pink.



              Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN

              ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing

              take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.



              Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be

              interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just

              swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,

              depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone

              wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.



              Sign me,

              Queen Of The Shortcut

              Iris Nevins

              www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>



              ----- Original Message -----

              From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>

              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

              Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM

              Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



              yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the

              wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to

              someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around

              on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)



              Deb



              --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

              wrote:



              From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

              Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk

              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

              Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM



              you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves



              first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry



              and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher



              both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through



              www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her

              site direct. You can also



              look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.



              Sue



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------



              Yahoo! Groups Links



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            • marines bengoa
              That s difficult for me to explain because I just feel it and know. About the consistency of milk, some books say.     ________________________________ From:
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 11, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                That's difficult for me to explain because I just feel it and know. About the
                consistency of milk, some books say.

                 
                 



                ________________________________
                From: Deluwiel Xox <deluwiel1209@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 10:16:16 PM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                 
                What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking? 

                --- On Thu, 2/10/11, marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...> wrote:

                From: marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...>
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:15 PM

                 

                I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good

                price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash

                scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get

                rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get

                the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.

                I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than

                carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in

                the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and

                remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a

                squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if

                any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.

                I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per


                gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry

                in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that

                the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.


                Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!

                After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.

                Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft

                (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 

                I hope this helps!!! 

                ________________________________

                From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com

                Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM

                Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                 

                I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I

                suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,


                but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually


                way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good

                results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err

                on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about

                washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never

                experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak

                for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

                I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I

                believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have

                not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,

                was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a

                minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing

                that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then


                ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with

                synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got

                remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

                To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most

                efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never

                occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has

                always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm

                swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.

                Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always


                swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was

                left pink.

                Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN

                ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing


                take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

                Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be

                interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just

                swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,

                depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone

                wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

                Sign me,

                Queen Of The Shortcut

                Iris Nevins

                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

                ----- Original Message -----

                From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>

                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

                Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM

                Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the

                wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to

                someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around


                on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

                Deb

                --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

                wrote:

                From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

                Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

                Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

                you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

                first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

                and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

                both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

                www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her

                site direct. You can also

                look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

                Sue

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                __________________________________________________________
                Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
                http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Don't pick lemons.
                See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
                http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • kmokri
                When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 22, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?

                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).
                  >
                  > d.guffey
                  >
                  >
                  > From: irisnevins
                  > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:39 PM
                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.
                  >
                  > I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.
                  >
                  > To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.
                  >
                  > Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.
                  >
                  > Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.
                  >
                  > Sign me,
                  > Queen Of The Shortcut
                  > Iris Nevins
                  > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                  >
                  > yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)
                  >
                  > Deb
                  >
                  > --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
                  > Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM
                  >
                  > you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves
                  >
                  > first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry
                  >
                  > and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher
                  >
                  > both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through
                  >
                  > www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also
                  >
                  > look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.
                  >
                  > Sue
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • D or Jer Guffey
                  I use acrylics just as is, the same that I use for paper marbling and nothing else added. I marble mostly with Liquitex and Utretch tube paints thinned with
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 22, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I use acrylics just as is, the same that I use for paper marbling and nothing else added. I marble mostly with Liquitex and Utretch tube paints thinned with water to the correct consistency.

                    d.guffey


                    From: kmokri
                    Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:38 AM
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Marbling] Re: marbling on silk



                    When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?

                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).
                    >
                    > d.guffey
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    Visit Your Group
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sue Cole
                    I can only answer froom my experiences. I use flat crepe pre hemmed silk scarves from Dharma Trading so it will show on both sides. It is still slightly
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 15, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I can only answer froom my experiences.  I use flat crepe pre hemmed silk scarves from Dharma Trading so it will show on both sides.  It is still slightly darker on the front, but does show on both sides.  The silk satin felt nicer, but as you said, it only showed the pattern on the front side.

                      You didn't say, but i assume you are putting the scarves in an alum solution first.  I let them soak in the solution for at least a half hour, then spin out the excess in my washing machine and let them hang to dry, then iron them before marbling to get rid of any creases.

                      I've been experimenting with using vinegar in my rinse in the washing machine because that is supposed to make them shinier and it does seem to help.  Golden makes a GAC 900 for fabric, but I didn't find that it made any difference.

                      When I lay them in the marbling tank, I do run my finger around the edges to make sure they get printed, then I rinse them in two buckets of water and hang to dry for 24 hours. I try to marble outside as much as possible because when I do it in the house, I have to put towels down everywhere, but it's too cold of course in the winter time here to do it outside after September.

                      After I let them dry, I heat set them in a drier with an old pair of jeans or a towel so they don't tangle so much for a half hour, then wash them in the washer on a short, delicate cycle and dry them again.  I have also tried ironing them to heat set them before washing them.  I would be concerned about putting them in the oven.

                      I do a large number of scarves, so have switched to using methyl cellulose because the carageenan goes bad so quickly here in the summer - it gets to 90, believe it or not.

                      I have used several brands of paints, most work.

                      I do have problems with them tangling in the washing machine.  I've tried net bags and several other things, but they still do it.  I spray them with a water misting bottle on the creases, then use a spray sizing and they seem to be fine.  I have not experience a problem with permanent creases in the scarves.  I use a hot steam iron on them also.  The marbling has never come off in the machine.  Because I'm doing a high volume of them, I don't wash them by hand, and also want to make sure they are not going to fade any further after they leave me is the other reason why I do them that way.

                      The only way the marbling would come off is if you didn't use alum or used too weak a solution of alum would be my opinion.  

                      So far I have been unsuccessful in marbling on stretched canvas - if anyone has any suggestions, I would be glad to hear them.  I also experimented and marbled on some 4 x 4" travertine tiles, and they worked fine without alum, also some white polyester ribbon worked well without alum.

                      Don't know if Iris or Pat will contribute their views,  Hope this was of some help.
                      Sue Cole
                      Fairbanks, Alaska
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