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marbling on silk

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  • Sue Cole
    you didn t say, so I ll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry and iron
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 9, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves
      first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry
      and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher
      both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through
      www.dharmatrading.com and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also
      look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.
      Sue


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Deluwiel Xox
      yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out.  Thanks for the leads on the DVDs!  (I m so excited to talk to
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out.  Thanks for the leads on the DVDs!  (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this!  It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

        Deb

        --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:

        From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...>
        Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM







         









        you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

        first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

        and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

        both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

        www.dharmatrading.com and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also

        look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

        Sue



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • irisnevins
        I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

          I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

          To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.

          Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

          Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

          Sign me,
          Queen Of The Shortcut
          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk


          yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

          Deb

          --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>> wrote:

          From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
          Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

















          you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

          first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

          and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

          both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

          www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also

          look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

          Sue



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • marines bengoa
          I get my scarves at Dharma and I never prewash. I use marbo gum form Prochem. It is less expensive ________________________________ From: irisnevins
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I get my scarves at Dharma and I never prewash. I use marbo gum form Prochem. It
            is less expensive





            ________________________________
            From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

             
            I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I
            suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,
            but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually
            way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good
            results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err
            on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about
            washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never
            experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak
            for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

            I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I
            believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have
            not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,
            was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a
            minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing
            that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then
            ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with
            synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got
            remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.


            To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most
            efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never
            occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has
            always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm
            swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.
            Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always
            swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was
            left pink.

            Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN
            ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing
            take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.


            Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be
            interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just
            swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,
            depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone
            wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.


            Sign me,
            Queen Of The Shortcut
            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

            yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the
            wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to
            someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around
            on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

            Deb

            --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
            wrote:

            From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
            Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

            you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

            first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

            and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

            both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

            www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her
            site direct. You can also

            look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

            Sue

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • D or Jer Guffey
            I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).

              d.guffey


              From: irisnevins
              Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:39 PM
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



              I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

              I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

              To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.

              Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

              Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

              Sign me,
              Queen Of The Shortcut
              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

              yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

              Deb

              --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>> wrote:

              From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
              Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

              you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

              first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

              and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

              both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

              www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also

              look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

              Sue

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • irisnevins
              Whew....thank heavens I am not crazy after all...LOL! Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com ... From: D or Jer Guffey To:
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Whew....thank heavens I am not crazy after all...LOL!
                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: D or Jer Guffey<mailto:dguff@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:22 PM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk


                I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).

                d.guffey


                From: irisnevins
                Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:39 PM
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



                I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

                I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

                To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.

                Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

                Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

                Sign me,
                Queen Of The Shortcut
                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com%3chttp//www.marblingpaper.com/>>

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

                Deb

                --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...%3Cmailto:akartisan@...>>> wrote:

                From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...%3Cmailto:akartisan@...>>>
                Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

                you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

                first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

                and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

                both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

                www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/<http://www.dharmatrading.com%3chttp//www.dharmatrading.com/>> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also

                look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

                Sue

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • marines bengoa
                I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good
                  price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash
                  scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get
                  rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get
                  the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.

                  I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than
                  carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in
                  the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and
                  remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a
                  squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if
                  any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.

                  I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per
                  gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry
                  in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that
                  the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.
                  Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!


                  After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.
                  Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft
                  (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 

                  I hope this helps!!! 



                  ________________________________
                  From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                   
                  I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I
                  suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,
                  but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually
                  way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good
                  results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err
                  on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about
                  washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never
                  experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak
                  for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

                  I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I
                  believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have
                  not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,
                  was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a
                  minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing
                  that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then
                  ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with
                  synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got
                  remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.


                  To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most
                  efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never
                  occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has
                  always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm
                  swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.
                  Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always
                  swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was
                  left pink.

                  Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN
                  ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing
                  take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.


                  Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be
                  interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just
                  swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,
                  depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone
                  wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.


                  Sign me,
                  Queen Of The Shortcut
                  Iris Nevins
                  www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                  yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the
                  wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to
                  someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around
                  on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

                  Deb

                  --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
                  wrote:

                  From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
                  Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

                  you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

                  first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

                  and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

                  both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

                  www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her
                  site direct. You can also

                  look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

                  Sue

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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                • Deluwiel Xox
                  What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking?  ... From: marines bengoa Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 10, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking? 

                    --- On Thu, 2/10/11, marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...> wrote:

                    From: marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:15 PM







                     









                    I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good

                    price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash

                    scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get

                    rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get

                    the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.



                    I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than

                    carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in

                    the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and

                    remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a

                    squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if

                    any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.



                    I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per

                    gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry

                    in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that

                    the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.

                    Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!



                    After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.

                    Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft

                    (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 



                    I hope this helps!!! 



                    ________________________________

                    From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com

                    Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM

                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



                     

                    I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I

                    suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,

                    but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually

                    way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good

                    results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err

                    on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about

                    washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never

                    experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak

                    for all fabrics. Better to be safe.



                    I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I

                    believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have

                    not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,

                    was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a

                    minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing

                    that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then

                    ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with

                    synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got

                    remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.



                    To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most

                    efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never

                    occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has

                    always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm

                    swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.

                    Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always

                    swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was

                    left pink.



                    Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN

                    ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing

                    take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.



                    Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be

                    interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just

                    swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,

                    depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone

                    wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.



                    Sign me,

                    Queen Of The Shortcut

                    Iris Nevins

                    www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>



                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>

                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

                    Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM

                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk



                    yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the

                    wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to

                    someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around

                    on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)



                    Deb



                    --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

                    wrote:



                    From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

                    Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

                    Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM



                    you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves



                    first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry



                    and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher



                    both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through



                    www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her

                    site direct. You can also



                    look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.



                    Sue



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • marines bengoa
                    That s difficult for me to explain because I just feel it and know. About the consistency of milk, some books say.     ________________________________ From:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 11, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      That's difficult for me to explain because I just feel it and know. About the
                      consistency of milk, some books say.

                       
                       



                      ________________________________
                      From: Deluwiel Xox <deluwiel1209@...>
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 10:16:16 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                       
                      What should the consistency of the size be?  How thick are we talking? 

                      --- On Thu, 2/10/11, marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...> wrote:

                      From: marines bengoa <mbengoaduprey@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 6:15 PM

                       

                      I always get white scarves from Dharma; 100% silk, very good quality and good

                      price if bought by the dozen. I use habotai, chiffon and crepe. I never wash

                      scarves. But the fact that I dye scarves with acid dyes first may help to get

                      rid of size if any. I do this instead of buying colored ones because I get

                      the shades I really I want but scarves should be rinsed until water runs clear.

                      I use Marbo gum for my size from Prochem which is less expensive than

                      carrageenan and eco friendly: 2 tablespoons per gallon of tap water, mix it in

                      the blender and let it set overnight. Sometimes I add about 4 cups of water and

                      remix the size before I start marbling if the size feels a bit thick. I use a

                      squegee for mixing, let it set for a few minutes and then get rid of bubbles if

                      any. It works beautifully. This I do for a 4 gallons size.

                      I soak scarves  for about 10 minutes in  a solution of 4 tablespoons of alum per


                      gallon of tap water. I hang scarves soaking wet to dry  outside. They dry

                      in about 1/2 an hour. I iron scarves and then begin my marbling.  I found that

                      the order used to add colors has a lot to do with how colors behave in the size.


                      Thickness is very important also. But some colors have a mind of their own!

                      After rinsing and drying I iron scarves to set the paint and cure for two days.

                      Then I fill the washing machine with hot water and add 1/4 cup of milsoft

                      (Dharma) for ten minutes, rinse in warm water and I'm done. 

                      I hope this helps!!! 

                      ________________________________

                      From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com

                      Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:39:35 PM

                      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                       

                      I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I

                      suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with,


                      but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually


                      way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good

                      results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err

                      on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about

                      washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never

                      experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak

                      for all fabrics. Better to be safe.

                      I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I

                      believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have

                      not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though,

                      was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a

                      minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing

                      that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then


                      ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with

                      synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got

                      remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.

                      To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most

                      efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never

                      occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has

                      always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm

                      swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever.

                      Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always


                      swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was

                      left pink.

                      Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN

                      ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing


                      take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.

                      Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be

                      interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just

                      swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well,

                      depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone

                      wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.

                      Sign me,

                      Queen Of The Shortcut

                      Iris Nevins

                      www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>

                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

                      Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM

                      Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                      yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the

                      wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to

                      someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around


                      on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)

                      Deb

                      --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

                      wrote:

                      From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>

                      Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk

                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>

                      Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM

                      you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves

                      first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry

                      and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher

                      both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through

                      www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her

                      site direct. You can also

                      look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.

                      Sue

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      __________________________________________________________
                      Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                      in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
                      http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      Don't pick lemons.
                      See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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                    • kmokri
                      When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 22, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?

                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).
                        >
                        > d.guffey
                        >
                        >
                        > From: irisnevins
                        > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:39 PM
                        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I must marble all wrong, LOL. Not saying to not pre-wash if you want... and I suppose it may very well depend on the maker and what they size the fabric with, but having never yet learned to marble properly (as in self taught, and actually way less meticulous than others), in spite of marbling for 33 years with good results, I have never washed the scarves. I did at times advise to wash, to err on the safe side after hearing people say they need to, or have written about washing them because it's what people seem to want to do, and I also never experimented with many different types of fabric. So I certainly cannot speak for all fabrics. Better to be safe.
                        >
                        > I got the silks from Exotic silks mainly but also Rupert Gibbon and Spyder I believe, and I think one time from Dharma, both colored and white (though have not done it in a few years so maybe things are different). What I did though, was soak them briefly in a weak warm alum solution, swish them around for a minute basically... which I think also at the same time got rid of any sizing that might prevent colors from adhering. I then hung them to dry overnight, then ironed them so they would lay flat on the size. I have also done this with synthetic silk... which has always marbled beautifully. I often got remnants....the bridesmaid's gown materials, very cheaply.
                        >
                        > To be honest, I have a bit of a lazy streak and always want to find the most efficient way to get things done. So when I first marbled fabric, it never occurred to me to pre-wash at all, then I later heard people did that. It has always worked in spite of not washing, and as I mentioned I think the warm swishing in a bucket of alum water may have done enough removal of whatever. Other things that you could actually SEE came out too, like excess dye. I always swished the magenta ones last for this reason, the alum water in the bucket was left pink.
                        >
                        > Also, I learned to skip yet another step of heat setting in the dryer, THEN ironing. My efficiency expert/lazy part questioned why wouldn't just the ironing take care of any heat setting, while flattening them at the same time. It did.
                        >
                        > Never had a problem working this way....just sayin'! Just for fun, it could be interesting on your next batch of fabric, to leave one piece unwashed and just swish in the warm alum bucket, and see if it makes a difference. It may well, depending on the fabric, but you may be surprised too if it works. If anyone wants to experiment and post back... would be interesting.
                        >
                        > Sign me,
                        > Queen Of The Shortcut
                        > Iris Nevins
                        > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Deluwiel Xox<mailto:deluwiel1209@...>
                        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:44 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                        >
                        > yup - I prewash and then alum treat and iron with a warm-ish iron to get the wrinkles out. Thanks for the leads on the DVDs! (I'm so excited to talk to someone who has some experience with this! It's very frustrating noodling around on my own trying to troubleshoot!) - thanks for your help (and patience)
                        >
                        > Deb
                        >
                        > --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
                        > Subject: [Marbling] marbling on silk
                        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 1:55 PM
                        >
                        > you didn't say, so I'll ask just in case. You need to wash the scarves
                        >
                        > first with synthrapol, then soak them in an alum solution, then hang to dry
                        >
                        > and iron them to get the best colors. Peggy Skycraft and Mimi Schleicher
                        >
                        > both sell good dvd's explaining the process. Peggy's is sold through
                        >
                        > www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and Mimi's is through her site direct. You can also
                        >
                        > look through the archives for things that have been discussed on this.
                        >
                        > Sue
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • D or Jer Guffey
                        I use acrylics just as is, the same that I use for paper marbling and nothing else added. I marble mostly with Liquitex and Utretch tube paints thinned with
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 22, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I use acrylics just as is, the same that I use for paper marbling and nothing else added. I marble mostly with Liquitex and Utretch tube paints thinned with water to the correct consistency.

                          d.guffey


                          From: kmokri
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:38 AM
                          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Marbling] Re: marbling on silk



                          When you use acrylics do you use the fabric additive to make them permanent?

                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I, too, never pre-washed my silk scarves prior to submerging in an alum solution (same solution I used for paper). The one time I prewashed (I think with Ivory soap) the marbling was a disaster! Scarves do need to be ironed before marbling to remove the wrinkles and after marbling I hung them up to dry and then one final ironing to heat set and remove wrinkles. I marble with acrylics and find that using colored silk gives a wonderful result and you can marble with just black, grey, & white and the pattern jumps off the surface and compliments the rich color of the silk (I like jewel tone silks).
                          >
                          > d.guffey
                          >
                          >
                          >

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                        • Sue Cole
                          I can only answer froom my experiences. I use flat crepe pre hemmed silk scarves from Dharma Trading so it will show on both sides. It is still slightly
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 15, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I can only answer froom my experiences.  I use flat crepe pre hemmed silk scarves from Dharma Trading so it will show on both sides.  It is still slightly darker on the front, but does show on both sides.  The silk satin felt nicer, but as you said, it only showed the pattern on the front side.

                            You didn't say, but i assume you are putting the scarves in an alum solution first.  I let them soak in the solution for at least a half hour, then spin out the excess in my washing machine and let them hang to dry, then iron them before marbling to get rid of any creases.

                            I've been experimenting with using vinegar in my rinse in the washing machine because that is supposed to make them shinier and it does seem to help.  Golden makes a GAC 900 for fabric, but I didn't find that it made any difference.

                            When I lay them in the marbling tank, I do run my finger around the edges to make sure they get printed, then I rinse them in two buckets of water and hang to dry for 24 hours. I try to marble outside as much as possible because when I do it in the house, I have to put towels down everywhere, but it's too cold of course in the winter time here to do it outside after September.

                            After I let them dry, I heat set them in a drier with an old pair of jeans or a towel so they don't tangle so much for a half hour, then wash them in the washer on a short, delicate cycle and dry them again.  I have also tried ironing them to heat set them before washing them.  I would be concerned about putting them in the oven.

                            I do a large number of scarves, so have switched to using methyl cellulose because the carageenan goes bad so quickly here in the summer - it gets to 90, believe it or not.

                            I have used several brands of paints, most work.

                            I do have problems with them tangling in the washing machine.  I've tried net bags and several other things, but they still do it.  I spray them with a water misting bottle on the creases, then use a spray sizing and they seem to be fine.  I have not experience a problem with permanent creases in the scarves.  I use a hot steam iron on them also.  The marbling has never come off in the machine.  Because I'm doing a high volume of them, I don't wash them by hand, and also want to make sure they are not going to fade any further after they leave me is the other reason why I do them that way.

                            The only way the marbling would come off is if you didn't use alum or used too weak a solution of alum would be my opinion.  

                            So far I have been unsuccessful in marbling on stretched canvas - if anyone has any suggestions, I would be glad to hear them.  I also experimented and marbled on some 4 x 4" travertine tiles, and they worked fine without alum, also some white polyester ribbon worked well without alum.

                            Don't know if Iris or Pat will contribute their views,  Hope this was of some help.
                            Sue Cole
                            Fairbanks, Alaska
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