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Re:German Marbled paper

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  • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
    Jemma,Yehuda, the English term in sample books of the time (19th and early 20th century) is Cocoa marbled paper (German: Gustavmarmorpapier), and indeed it is
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
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      Jemma,Yehuda,

      the English term in sample books of the time (19th and early 20th century) is Cocoa marbled paper (German: Gustavmarmorpapier), and indeed it is not created in marbling process but directly on the sheet in a sprinkling technique. Yehuda, you're also right in that a chemical process is involved. Old recipe books give a combination of chemical as well as vegetable substances.
      As they were not hand made but industrially produced, copying them 1:1 by hand is not imaginable.

      Their characteristic feature is the distinctively darkish edge of the spots, achieved by the chemical additives. The surface is highly glossed, this glossiness cannot achieved by hand.

      Cocoa marbled paper is a sub group of sprinkled paper.

      Yehuda, I'd be very interested in hearing more about your method of creating an adequate copy.

      Susanne Krause

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Jemma Lewis <jemmamarbling@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Yehuda,
      >
      > Many thanks for taking the time to write.
      > I was very interested to read about this method and shall certainly be
      > looking forward to trying this out!
      >
      > Best wishes
      >
      > Jemma
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 4:23 PM, <fritzmiklaf@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > This paper looks to me like it was created with a chemical process rather
      > > than traditional marbling. Most samples of what I would call "German
      > > marbling" were created by painting onto glass, putting another sheet of
      > > glass on top of it, pulling them apart, and then laying paper on both
      > > surfaces to pick up the pattern.
      > >
      > > A couple of years ago I was commissioned to create some facsimiles of
      > > Einstein's papers that were being sent abroad for an exhibit. One of the
      > > booklets (perhaps his Swiss military record, I don't remember) had that
      > > sort
      > > of cover and I was able to re-create it with this method.
      > >
      > > Best regards,
      > >
      > > Yehuda
      > >
      > > Yehuda Miklaf
      > >
      > > Jerusalem
      > >
      > > fritzmiklaf@... <fritzmiklaf%40bezeqint.net>
      > >
      > > www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • fritzmiklaf@bezeqint.net
      Hello Susanne & Jemma I m not sure that I can attach an image here, but I will try. If it doesn t work let me know and I will send it directly. As I said
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
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        Hello Susanne & Jemma



        I'm not sure that I can attach an image here, but I will try. If it doesn't
        work let me know and I will send it directly.



        As I said before, one of Einstein's documents (either a notebook or his
        Swiss military record) had this paper that I associated with "German
        marbling". In order to reproduce it, I took a paper of the same green as the
        original and then painted over a sheet of glass with some black acrylic
        paint. I pressed another sheet of glass to it and then pulled them apart
        (not easy!) and it left the mottled pattern that you see in the attachment.
        I rubbed the sheet of green paper to both surfaces of the glass and the
        result was very, very close to the original. Confession: that was on the
        second try - the first had too much paint.



        Regards,

        Yehuda



        Yehuda Miklaf

        Jerusalem

        fritzmiklaf@...

        www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jemma Lewis
        Hi, This sounds very interesting Yehuda and I can quite imagine pulling the two pieces of glass apart to form such a pattern! Unfortunately I couldnt see the
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
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          Hi,
          This sounds very interesting Yehuda and I can quite imagine pulling the two
          pieces of glass apart to form such a pattern!
          Unfortunately I couldnt see the image you attached, i'd really love to see
          what you came up with though so perhaps you can email it to me directly -
          jemmamarbling@...

          I love to experiment with new techniques and will definately be trying
          this - as soon as I have a break in the orders!

          Thanks again, reading yours and Susannes responses has been of much
          interest.

          Jemma

          On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 4:17 PM, <fritzmiklaf@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hello Susanne & Jemma
          >
          > I'm not sure that I can attach an image here, but I will try. If it doesn't
          > work let me know and I will send it directly.
          >
          > As I said before, one of Einstein's documents (either a notebook or his
          > Swiss military record) had this paper that I associated with "German
          > marbling". In order to reproduce it, I took a paper of the same green as
          > the
          > original and then painted over a sheet of glass with some black acrylic
          > paint. I pressed another sheet of glass to it and then pulled them apart
          > (not easy!) and it left the mottled pattern that you see in the attachment.
          > I rubbed the sheet of green paper to both surfaces of the glass and the
          > result was very, very close to the original. Confession: that was on the
          > second try - the first had too much paint.
          >
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Yehuda
          >
          > Yehuda Miklaf
          >
          > Jerusalem
          >
          > fritzmiklaf@... <fritzmiklaf%40bezeqint.net>
          >
          >
          > www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jemma Lewis
          Susanne, Many thanks for your reply, the group has definately given me plenty of ideas to consider! In some respects its reassuring to read that it is
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
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            Susanne,

            Many thanks for your reply, the group has definately given me plenty of
            ideas to consider!

            In some respects its reassuring to read that it is something that is
            industrially produced, as I couldnt quite see how numerous papers could be
            made from my workshop - in the same way I can with my traditional marbling
            anyway!
            Thanks also for the note on the glossiness, I often get sent marbled papers
            to match that have quite a gloss to them, and I have always believed that
            they must have been glossed or laminated by machine.

            For one off papers though I would really like to try the technique using two
            sheets of glass.

            Someone else has also suggested to me that I mix a water soluble pigment
            with potato paste, paint onto a sheet and then add a secondary colour mixed
            with oxgall or Acidum aceticum, which is sprinkled onto the still wet sheet.

            Thanks again!

            Jemma






            On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:03 AM, hamburgerbuntpapier_de <
            studio@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            >
            > Jemma,Yehuda,
            >
            > the English term in sample books of the time (19th and early 20th century)
            > is Cocoa marbled paper (German: Gustavmarmorpapier), and indeed it is not
            > created in marbling process but directly on the sheet in a sprinkling
            > technique. Yehuda, you're also right in that a chemical process is involved.
            > Old recipe books give a combination of chemical as well as vegetable
            > substances.
            > As they were not hand made but industrially produced, copying them 1:1 by
            > hand is not imaginable.
            >
            > Their characteristic feature is the distinctively darkish edge of the
            > spots, achieved by the chemical additives. The surface is highly glossed,
            > this glossiness cannot achieved by hand.
            >
            > Cocoa marbled paper is a sub group of sprinkled paper.
            >
            > Yehuda, I'd be very interested in hearing more about your method of
            > creating an adequate copy.
            >
            > Susanne Krause
            >
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, Jemma Lewis
            > <jemmamarbling@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Yehuda,
            > >
            > > Many thanks for taking the time to write.
            > > I was very interested to read about this method and shall certainly be
            > > looking forward to trying this out!
            > >
            > > Best wishes
            > >
            > > Jemma
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 4:23 PM, <fritzmiklaf@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > This paper looks to me like it was created with a chemical process
            > rather
            > > > than traditional marbling. Most samples of what I would call "German
            > > > marbling" were created by painting onto glass, putting another sheet of
            > > > glass on top of it, pulling them apart, and then laying paper on both
            > > > surfaces to pick up the pattern.
            > > >
            > > > A couple of years ago I was commissioned to create some facsimiles of
            > > > Einstein's papers that were being sent abroad for an exhibit. One of
            > the
            > > > booklets (perhaps his Swiss military record, I don't remember) had that
            > > > sort
            > > > of cover and I was able to re-create it with this method.
            > > >
            > > > Best regards,
            > > >
            > > > Yehuda
            > > >
            > > > Yehuda Miklaf
            > > >
            > > > Jerusalem
            > > >
            > > > fritzmiklaf@... <fritzmiklaf%40bezeqint.net>
            >
            > > >
            > > > www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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