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Re:German Marbled paper

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  • fritzmiklaf@bezeqint.net
    This paper looks to me like it was created with a chemical process rather than traditional marbling. Most samples of what I would call German marbling were
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 24, 2010
      This paper looks to me like it was created with a chemical process rather
      than traditional marbling. Most samples of what I would call "German
      marbling" were created by painting onto glass, putting another sheet of
      glass on top of it, pulling them apart, and then laying paper on both
      surfaces to pick up the pattern.



      A couple of years ago I was commissioned to create some facsimiles of
      Einstein's papers that were being sent abroad for an exhibit. One of the
      booklets (perhaps his Swiss military record, I don't remember) had that sort
      of cover and I was able to re-create it with this method.



      Best regards,

      Yehuda



      Yehuda Miklaf

      Jerusalem

      fritzmiklaf@...

      www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jemma Lewis
      Hello Yehuda, Many thanks for taking the time to write. I was very interested to read about this method and shall certainly be looking forward to trying this
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 24, 2010
        Hello Yehuda,

        Many thanks for taking the time to write.
        I was very interested to read about this method and shall certainly be
        looking forward to trying this out!

        Best wishes

        Jemma



        On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 4:23 PM, <fritzmiklaf@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > This paper looks to me like it was created with a chemical process rather
        > than traditional marbling. Most samples of what I would call "German
        > marbling" were created by painting onto glass, putting another sheet of
        > glass on top of it, pulling them apart, and then laying paper on both
        > surfaces to pick up the pattern.
        >
        > A couple of years ago I was commissioned to create some facsimiles of
        > Einstein's papers that were being sent abroad for an exhibit. One of the
        > booklets (perhaps his Swiss military record, I don't remember) had that
        > sort
        > of cover and I was able to re-create it with this method.
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Yehuda
        >
        > Yehuda Miklaf
        >
        > Jerusalem
        >
        > fritzmiklaf@... <fritzmiklaf%40bezeqint.net>
        >
        > www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
        Jemma,Yehuda, the English term in sample books of the time (19th and early 20th century) is Cocoa marbled paper (German: Gustavmarmorpapier), and indeed it is
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
          Jemma,Yehuda,

          the English term in sample books of the time (19th and early 20th century) is Cocoa marbled paper (German: Gustavmarmorpapier), and indeed it is not created in marbling process but directly on the sheet in a sprinkling technique. Yehuda, you're also right in that a chemical process is involved. Old recipe books give a combination of chemical as well as vegetable substances.
          As they were not hand made but industrially produced, copying them 1:1 by hand is not imaginable.

          Their characteristic feature is the distinctively darkish edge of the spots, achieved by the chemical additives. The surface is highly glossed, this glossiness cannot achieved by hand.

          Cocoa marbled paper is a sub group of sprinkled paper.

          Yehuda, I'd be very interested in hearing more about your method of creating an adequate copy.

          Susanne Krause

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Jemma Lewis <jemmamarbling@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Yehuda,
          >
          > Many thanks for taking the time to write.
          > I was very interested to read about this method and shall certainly be
          > looking forward to trying this out!
          >
          > Best wishes
          >
          > Jemma
          >
          >
          >
          > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 4:23 PM, <fritzmiklaf@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > This paper looks to me like it was created with a chemical process rather
          > > than traditional marbling. Most samples of what I would call "German
          > > marbling" were created by painting onto glass, putting another sheet of
          > > glass on top of it, pulling them apart, and then laying paper on both
          > > surfaces to pick up the pattern.
          > >
          > > A couple of years ago I was commissioned to create some facsimiles of
          > > Einstein's papers that were being sent abroad for an exhibit. One of the
          > > booklets (perhaps his Swiss military record, I don't remember) had that
          > > sort
          > > of cover and I was able to re-create it with this method.
          > >
          > > Best regards,
          > >
          > > Yehuda
          > >
          > > Yehuda Miklaf
          > >
          > > Jerusalem
          > >
          > > fritzmiklaf@... <fritzmiklaf%40bezeqint.net>
          > >
          > > www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • fritzmiklaf@bezeqint.net
          Hello Susanne & Jemma I m not sure that I can attach an image here, but I will try. If it doesn t work let me know and I will send it directly. As I said
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
            Hello Susanne & Jemma



            I'm not sure that I can attach an image here, but I will try. If it doesn't
            work let me know and I will send it directly.



            As I said before, one of Einstein's documents (either a notebook or his
            Swiss military record) had this paper that I associated with "German
            marbling". In order to reproduce it, I took a paper of the same green as the
            original and then painted over a sheet of glass with some black acrylic
            paint. I pressed another sheet of glass to it and then pulled them apart
            (not easy!) and it left the mottled pattern that you see in the attachment.
            I rubbed the sheet of green paper to both surfaces of the glass and the
            result was very, very close to the original. Confession: that was on the
            second try - the first had too much paint.



            Regards,

            Yehuda



            Yehuda Miklaf

            Jerusalem

            fritzmiklaf@...

            www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jemma Lewis
            Hi, This sounds very interesting Yehuda and I can quite imagine pulling the two pieces of glass apart to form such a pattern! Unfortunately I couldnt see the
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
              Hi,
              This sounds very interesting Yehuda and I can quite imagine pulling the two
              pieces of glass apart to form such a pattern!
              Unfortunately I couldnt see the image you attached, i'd really love to see
              what you came up with though so perhaps you can email it to me directly -
              jemmamarbling@...

              I love to experiment with new techniques and will definately be trying
              this - as soon as I have a break in the orders!

              Thanks again, reading yours and Susannes responses has been of much
              interest.

              Jemma

              On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 4:17 PM, <fritzmiklaf@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > Hello Susanne & Jemma
              >
              > I'm not sure that I can attach an image here, but I will try. If it doesn't
              > work let me know and I will send it directly.
              >
              > As I said before, one of Einstein's documents (either a notebook or his
              > Swiss military record) had this paper that I associated with "German
              > marbling". In order to reproduce it, I took a paper of the same green as
              > the
              > original and then painted over a sheet of glass with some black acrylic
              > paint. I pressed another sheet of glass to it and then pulled them apart
              > (not easy!) and it left the mottled pattern that you see in the attachment.
              > I rubbed the sheet of green paper to both surfaces of the glass and the
              > result was very, very close to the original. Confession: that was on the
              > second try - the first had too much paint.
              >
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Yehuda
              >
              > Yehuda Miklaf
              >
              > Jerusalem
              >
              > fritzmiklaf@... <fritzmiklaf%40bezeqint.net>
              >
              >
              > www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jemma Lewis
              Susanne, Many thanks for your reply, the group has definately given me plenty of ideas to consider! In some respects its reassuring to read that it is
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 25, 2010
                Susanne,

                Many thanks for your reply, the group has definately given me plenty of
                ideas to consider!

                In some respects its reassuring to read that it is something that is
                industrially produced, as I couldnt quite see how numerous papers could be
                made from my workshop - in the same way I can with my traditional marbling
                anyway!
                Thanks also for the note on the glossiness, I often get sent marbled papers
                to match that have quite a gloss to them, and I have always believed that
                they must have been glossed or laminated by machine.

                For one off papers though I would really like to try the technique using two
                sheets of glass.

                Someone else has also suggested to me that I mix a water soluble pigment
                with potato paste, paint onto a sheet and then add a secondary colour mixed
                with oxgall or Acidum aceticum, which is sprinkled onto the still wet sheet.

                Thanks again!

                Jemma






                On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:03 AM, hamburgerbuntpapier_de <
                studio@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                > Jemma,Yehuda,
                >
                > the English term in sample books of the time (19th and early 20th century)
                > is Cocoa marbled paper (German: Gustavmarmorpapier), and indeed it is not
                > created in marbling process but directly on the sheet in a sprinkling
                > technique. Yehuda, you're also right in that a chemical process is involved.
                > Old recipe books give a combination of chemical as well as vegetable
                > substances.
                > As they were not hand made but industrially produced, copying them 1:1 by
                > hand is not imaginable.
                >
                > Their characteristic feature is the distinctively darkish edge of the
                > spots, achieved by the chemical additives. The surface is highly glossed,
                > this glossiness cannot achieved by hand.
                >
                > Cocoa marbled paper is a sub group of sprinkled paper.
                >
                > Yehuda, I'd be very interested in hearing more about your method of
                > creating an adequate copy.
                >
                > Susanne Krause
                >
                >
                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, Jemma Lewis
                > <jemmamarbling@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Yehuda,
                > >
                > > Many thanks for taking the time to write.
                > > I was very interested to read about this method and shall certainly be
                > > looking forward to trying this out!
                > >
                > > Best wishes
                > >
                > > Jemma
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 4:23 PM, <fritzmiklaf@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > This paper looks to me like it was created with a chemical process
                > rather
                > > > than traditional marbling. Most samples of what I would call "German
                > > > marbling" were created by painting onto glass, putting another sheet of
                > > > glass on top of it, pulling them apart, and then laying paper on both
                > > > surfaces to pick up the pattern.
                > > >
                > > > A couple of years ago I was commissioned to create some facsimiles of
                > > > Einstein's papers that were being sent abroad for an exhibit. One of
                > the
                > > > booklets (perhaps his Swiss military record, I don't remember) had that
                > > > sort
                > > > of cover and I was able to re-create it with this method.
                > > >
                > > > Best regards,
                > > >
                > > > Yehuda
                > > >
                > > > Yehuda Miklaf
                > > >
                > > > Jerusalem
                > > >
                > > > fritzmiklaf@... <fritzmiklaf%40bezeqint.net>
                >
                > > >
                > > > www.yehudamiklaf.com <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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