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Re: Proportions of Gum Tragacanth and Rabbit Skin Glue for paint binder

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  • zozo7bra
    Hi Suzanne, When I was studying in Turkey a couple of years ago, we made the marbling paints with natural oxide pigments, regular water and no binders. The
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 31, 2010
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      Hi Suzanne,

      When I was studying in Turkey a couple of years ago, we made the marbling paints with natural oxide pigments, regular water and no binders. The paper was not alumed. The papers came out beautifully marbling on a size of Gum Tragacanth.

      When I returned to the states, with the same oxide pigments (oxit) and tap water, it was a bit of a disaster. (I has only used a small bit of the pigments purchased in Turkey. I did not alum the papers, and I was using a carrageenan sized. The results were a bit better when I alumed the paper.

      I tried with gum arabic binder, results are better, but not the quality of the Turkish colors with tap water and plain paper in Turkey.

      I am sure I read somewhere and on this forum that a mixture of gum tragacanth and hide glue. I will keep trying. I have enough pigment to try, but I do not want to waste a bunch before arriving at a pleasant result.

      Also, next year when I go back to Turkey I will come back with enough Tragacanth to marble for a while, the stuff is incredible. I will also get their pigments.

      Thanks Suzanne. Any new book of yours on the horizon?
      momo
      momora(at)email.com

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hikmet Barutcugil, in The Dream of Water, does not mention any binder added to the pigments. That corresponds with what I saw when I saw him at work. But then, he marbles in the traditional Turkish way on tragacantha. That may make a difference.
      >
      > Anyone who wants to find the book should ask in their library not for Hafner, but for Halfer (Josef).
      >
      > Susanne Krause
      >
    • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
      Momo, tragacantha is used also in the food and textile industries and for pharmaceutical purposes, maybe you could find a source there. Plus, find out what
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2010
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        Momo, tragacantha is used also in the food and textile industries and for pharmaceutical purposes, maybe you could find a source there. Plus, find out what Kremer Pigments has, they sell tragacantha in Germany but I don't now about the USA branch.

        As to books, I have published a new one in spring (written by Marianne Moll, about the sensational resist papers the Swiss bookbinder and teacher Emil Kretz made in the 1940ies and -60ies) and am currently working on a german edition of Dream of Water. In prepararion: a dictionary of decorated papers in 5 languages and a revised and extended edition of one of the best how-tos in German, written 20 years ago by Marianne Moll and now badly in need of a rejuvenation.

        Susanne Krause
      • michelle kaye
        Hi, I live in the UK and we use it for thickening the icing on cake decorations for flowers etc.  You can find it at most cake suppliers, ie. the ones that do
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 2, 2010
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          Hi, I live in the UK and we use it for thickening the icing on cake decorations for flowers etc.  You can find it at most cake suppliers, ie. the ones that do really fancy ones like Christmas cakes, I bought some from ebay last week a huge tub for 8.00 british pounds, look at cake decorations etc.  Good luck.  I havnt used it yet as I am a begginer

          --- On Sun, 1/8/10, hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...> wrote:


          From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...>
          Subject: [Marbling] Gum Tragacanth
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:13


           



          Momo, tragacantha is used also in the food and textile industries and for pharmaceutical purposes, maybe you could find a source there. Plus, find out what Kremer Pigments has, they sell tragacantha in Germany but I don't now about the USA branch.

          As to books, I have published a new one in spring (written by Marianne Moll, about the sensational resist papers the Swiss bookbinder and teacher Emil Kretz made in the 1940ies and -60ies) and am currently working on a german edition of Dream of Water. In prepararion: a dictionary of decorated papers in 5 languages and a revised and extended edition of one of the best how-tos in German, written 20 years ago by Marianne Moll and now badly in need of a rejuvenation.

          Susanne Krause











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • michelle kaye
          Hi, Im new to marbling and just got back from Turkey I was amazed and want to do it her, I have located tragacanthe from a cake decorator they use it to make
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 2, 2010
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            Hi, Im new to marbling and just got back from Turkey I was amazed and want to do it her, I have located tragacanthe from a cake decorator they use it to make petals etc.  I bouth mine from Ebay really cheap.. Please could you tell me the amount and method of mixing etc so that I can try my first batch..  I am in the UK and I need a sourced for the paints, could you help me here also.
            Thank you soo much.

            --- On Sat, 31/7/10, zozo7bra <momora@...> wrote:


            From: zozo7bra <momora@...>
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: Proportions of Gum Tragacanth and Rabbit Skin Glue for paint binder
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, 31 July, 2010, 21:19


             



            Hi Suzanne,

            When I was studying in Turkey a couple of years ago, we made the marbling paints with natural oxide pigments, regular water and no binders. The paper was not alumed. The papers came out beautifully marbling on a size of Gum Tragacanth.

            When I returned to the states, with the same oxide pigments (oxit) and tap water, it was a bit of a disaster. (I has only used a small bit of the pigments purchased in Turkey. I did not alum the papers, and I was using a carrageenan sized. The results were a bit better when I alumed the paper.

            I tried with gum arabic binder, results are better, but not the quality of the Turkish colors with tap water and plain paper in Turkey.

            I am sure I read somewhere and on this forum that a mixture of gum tragacanth and hide glue. I will keep trying. I have enough pigment to try, but I do not want to waste a bunch before arriving at a pleasant result.

            Also, next year when I go back to Turkey I will come back with enough Tragacanth to marble for a while, the stuff is incredible. I will also get their pigments.

            Thanks Suzanne. Any new book of yours on the horizon?
            momo
            momora(at)email.com

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hikmet Barutcugil, in The Dream of Water, does not mention any binder added to the pigments. That corresponds with what I saw when I saw him at work. But then, he marbles in the traditional Turkish way on tragacantha. That may make a difference.
            >
            > Anyone who wants to find the book should ask in their library not for Hafner, but for Halfer (Josef).
            >
            > Susanne Krause
            >











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • E. Albertine
            great tip. thanks. Best Regards, Elizabeth http://ecollage.wordpress.com I have not failed. I ve just found 10,000 ways that won t work. — Thomas Edison
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 2, 2010
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              great tip. thanks.

              Best Regards, Elizabeth
              http://ecollage.wordpress.com

              I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. — Thomas Edison





              ________________________________
              From: michelle kaye <soltice13@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 12:24:27 PM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Gum Tragacanth


              Hi, I live in the UK and we use it for thickening the icing on cake decorations
              for flowers etc. You can find it at most cake suppliers, ie. the ones that do
              really fancy ones like Christmas cakes,




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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