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Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 1822

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  • Del & Mary Stubbs
    Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re. marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn and put in their thoughts
    Message 1 of 5 , May 31, 2010
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      Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re.
      marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn
      and put in their thoughts as well.

      I still think the primer/sealer is your problem. The borax and water
      thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I
      would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan. I don't think your
      problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.). I still think
      it's the sealer.

      What type of primer/sealers have you used?

      Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior
      to aluming and marbling....I do question this. If what you are
      marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the
      marbling process without problems. Most folks feel that wood can
      never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being
      a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all
      circumstances. If there are water based laminations - that would be
      a problem. If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a
      problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the
      type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the
      piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or
      changing the integrity of the piece.

      Also - There is a difference between primer and sealer. If you must
      use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a
      sealer and not a primer. And one coat. and it could be that there
      are some brands that work better than others. I never seal the wood,
      as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I
      marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet. If you do use a sealer,
      you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the
      sealer raises the grain. But then again - some sealers may work
      better than others. I know Marina has used sealers
      successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?

      Mary


      On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      > There are 6 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
      > From: r2d21069
      > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
      > From: r2d21069
      > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
      > From: John Goode
      > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
      > From: r2d21069
      > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
      > From: John Goode
      > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
      > From: artsycole
      >
      >
      > Messages
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
      > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
      > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
      >
      > One more thing John.
      >
      > What type of paint/ink are you using?
      >
      > Thanks again
      > Take care and God Bless
      >
      > Joe
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hello R2D2
      >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
      >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
      >> excellent.
      >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
      >> supplier...then its
      >> tried and true.
      >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
      >> meld into
      >> the mordant(alum).
      >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
      >> try it.
      >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
      >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
      >> John
      >>
      >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
      >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
      >>> of the
      >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
      >>> would
      >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
      >>>
      >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
      >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
      >>> tried
      >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
      >>>
      >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
      >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
      >>> 1/4
      >>> cup to one quart
      >>>
      >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
      >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
      >>>
      >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (8)
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
      > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
      > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
      >
      > Hey John:
      >
      > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
      > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
      >
      > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >
      > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
      > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
      > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
      >
      > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
      > and see what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on
      > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
      >
      > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
      >
      >
      > Joe
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hello R2D2
      >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
      >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
      >> excellent.
      >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
      >> supplier...then its
      >> tried and true.
      >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
      >> meld into
      >> the mordant(alum).
      >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
      >> try it.
      >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
      >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
      >> John
      >>
      >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
      >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
      >>> of the
      >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
      >>> would
      >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
      >>>
      >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
      >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
      >>> tried
      >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
      >>>
      >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
      >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
      >>> 1/4
      >>> cup to one quart
      >>>
      >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
      >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
      >>>
      >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (8)
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
      > Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
      > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
      >
      > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
      > I have
      > tried
      > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
      >
      > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
      > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
      > Mary on this list is great with wood.
      > Mary are you out there?
      > Hope this helps
      > John
      >
      > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >
      >>
      >>
      >> Hey John:
      >>
      >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
      >> Sorry
      >> but I don't understand this line..
      >>
      >>
      >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >>
      >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
      >> work
      >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
      >> grade,
      >> which I don't know if this will work.
      >>
      >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
      >> and see
      >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
      >> You this
      >> this is to strong or to week.
      >>
      >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
      >>
      >>
      >> Joe
      >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
      >> Goode
      >> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Hello R2D2
      >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
      >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
      >> excellent.
      >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
      >>> supplier...then
      >> its
      >>> tried and true.
      >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
      >>> ink meld
      >> into
      >>> the mordant(alum).
      >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
      >>> try it.
      >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
      >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
      >>> John
      >>>
      >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
      >>>> Borax &
      >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
      >>>> of the
      >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
      >>>> would
      >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
      >>>>
      >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
      >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
      >>>> tried
      >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
      >>>>
      >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
      >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
      >>>> mix 1/4
      >>>> cup to one quart
      >>>>
      >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
      >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
      >>>>
      >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (8)
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
      > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
      > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
      >
      > Hello again John,
      >
      > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
      > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She
      > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that
      > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it. I
      > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered
      > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top
      > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the
      > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and
      > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
      >
      > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
      >
      > Joe
      >
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
      >> I have
      >> tried
      >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
      >>
      >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
      >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
      >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
      >> Mary are you out there?
      >> Hope this helps
      >> John
      >>
      >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Hey John:
      >>>
      >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd
      >>> doing. Sorry
      >>> but I don't understand this line..
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >>>
      >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
      >>> work
      >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
      >>> food grade,
      >>> which I don't know if this will work.
      >>>
      >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
      >>> store and see
      >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
      >>> You this
      >>> this is to strong or to week.
      >>>
      >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Joe
      >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>,
      >>> John Goode
      >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>> Hello R2D2
      >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
      >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
      >>> excellent.
      >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
      >>>> supplier...then
      >>> its
      >>>> tried and true.
      >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
      >>>> ink meld
      >>> into
      >>>> the mordant(alum).
      >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
      >>>> try it.
      >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
      >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
      >>>> John
      >>>>
      >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
      >>>>> Borax &
      >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
      >>>>> top of the
      >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
      >>>>> would
      >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
      >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I
      >>>>> have tried
      >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
      >>>>> trouble.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
      >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
      >>>>> mix 1/4
      >>>>> cup to one quart
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
      >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (8)
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
      > Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
      > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
      >
      > Joe
      > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
      > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a
      > shellac over
      > it.
      > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
      > John
      >
      > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >
      >>
      >>
      >> Hello again John,
      >>
      >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
      >> talking
      >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a
      >> great job
      >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for
      >> me to join
      >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a
      >> good sand
      >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will
      >> help. The
      >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making
      >> them stick
      >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not
      >> all and
      >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
      >>
      >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
      >>
      >>
      >> Joe
      >>
      >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
      >> Goode
      >> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the
      >>> primer. I have
      >>> tried
      >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
      >>>
      >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
      >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
      >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
      >>> Mary are you out there?
      >>> Hope this helps
      >>> John
      >>>
      >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Hey John:
      >>>>
      >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
      >> Sorry
      >>>> but I don't understand this line..
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >>>>
      >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose
      >>>> which work
      >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
      >> grade,
      >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
      >>>>
      >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
      >>>> store and
      >> see
      >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
      >> this
      >>>> this is to strong or to week.
      >>>>
      >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Joe
      >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
      >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
      >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
      >>
      >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Hello R2D2
      >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
      >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
      >>>> excellent.
      >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
      >> supplier...then
      >>>> its
      >>>>> tried and true.
      >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling
      >>>>> correct?
      >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
      >> meld
      >>>> into
      >>>>> the mordant(alum).
      >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
      >>>>> try
      >> it.
      >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
      >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
      >>>>> John
      >>>>>
      >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
      >>>>>> Borax
      >> &
      >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
      >>>>>> top of
      >> the
      >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
      >> would
      >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
      >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
      >> tried
      >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
      >>>>>> trouble.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to
      >>>>>> get
      >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
      >> 1/4
      >>>>>> cup to one quart
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
      >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (8)
      > ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
      > Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
      > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
      >
      > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel,
      > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the
      > ornament. Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
      >
      > Anyone have any luck with this?
      >
      > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push
      > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top,
      > then it would be marbled as you brought it up? Does anyone
      > remember this or waht they used? I wasn't into marbling in those
      > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
      > Sue
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hello R2D2
      >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
      >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
      >> excellent.
      >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
      >> supplier...then its
      >> tried and true.
      >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
      >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
      >> meld into
      >> the mordant(alum).
      >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
      >> try it.
      >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
      >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
      >> John
      >>
      >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
      >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
      >>> of the
      >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
      >>> would
      >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
      >>>
      >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
      >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
      >>> tried
      >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
      >>>
      >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
      >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
      >>> 1/4
      >>> cup to one quart
      >>>
      >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
      >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
      >>>
      >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (8)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > --
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > --
      >
    • G
      I have been marbling on my woodturnings for some time. I have seen Mary s technique and use a similar method. I first dampen the wood to raise the grain and
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 1, 2010
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        I have been marbling on my woodturnings for some time. I have seen Mary's technique and use a similar method. I first dampen the wood to raise the grain and then sand off the raised grain. I then typically treat with alum solution, let it dry and then marble it with acrylic paint over methocel or carag. No problems with the paint sticking. If I want a backround color, I raise the grain and sand but then cover the surgace with acrylic paint. The same paint I will be using to marble. After this dries I may sand a little to remove any raised grain but then I apply the alum, let it dry and marble. What ever you are using for a sealer must not be compatible with acrylic paint. If you must seal change the sealer type. We have many people marbling turnings with no problems and Mary's article is the basis for all the work being done. You may try a clear acrylic to seal if you must.

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re.
        > marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn
        > and put in their thoughts as well.
        >
        > I still think the primer/sealer is your problem. The borax and water
        > thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I
        > would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan. I don't think your
        > problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.). I still think
        > it's the sealer.
        >
        > What type of primer/sealers have you used?
        >
        > Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior
        > to aluming and marbling....I do question this. If what you are
        > marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the
        > marbling process without problems. Most folks feel that wood can
        > never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being
        > a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all
        > circumstances. If there are water based laminations - that would be
        > a problem. If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a
        > problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the
        > type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the
        > piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or
        > changing the integrity of the piece.
        >
        > Also - There is a difference between primer and sealer. If you must
        > use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a
        > sealer and not a primer. And one coat. and it could be that there
        > are some brands that work better than others. I never seal the wood,
        > as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I
        > marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet. If you do use a sealer,
        > you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the
        > sealer raises the grain. But then again - some sealers may work
        > better than others. I know Marina has used sealers
        > successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?
        >
        > Mary
        >
        >
        > On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >
        > > There are 6 messages in this issue.
        > >
        > > Topics in this digest:
        > >
        > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
        > > From: r2d21069
        > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
        > > From: r2d21069
        > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
        > > From: John Goode
        > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
        > > From: r2d21069
        > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
        > > From: John Goode
        > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
        > > From: artsycole
        > >
        > >
        > > Messages
        > > ______________________________________________________________________
        > > __
        > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
        > > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
        > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
        > >
        > > One more thing John.
        > >
        > > What type of paint/ink are you using?
        > >
        > > Thanks again
        > > Take care and God Bless
        > >
        > > Joe
        > >
        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Hello R2D2
        > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
        > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
        > >> excellent.
        > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
        > >> supplier...then its
        > >> tried and true.
        > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
        > >> meld into
        > >> the mordant(alum).
        > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
        > >> try it.
        > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
        > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
        > >> John
        > >>
        > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
        > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
        > >>> of the
        > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
        > >>> would
        > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
        > >>>
        > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
        > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
        > >>> tried
        > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
        > >>>
        > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
        > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
        > >>> 1/4
        > >>> cup to one quart
        > >>>
        > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
        > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
        > >>>
        > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Messages in this topic (8)
        > > ______________________________________________________________________
        > > __
        > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
        > > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
        > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
        > >
        > > Hey John:
        > >
        > > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
        > > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
        > >
        > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >
        > > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
        > > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
        > > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
        > >
        > > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
        > > and see what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on
        > > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
        > >
        > > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
        > >
        > >
        > > Joe
        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Hello R2D2
        > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
        > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
        > >> excellent.
        > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
        > >> supplier...then its
        > >> tried and true.
        > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
        > >> meld into
        > >> the mordant(alum).
        > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
        > >> try it.
        > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
        > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
        > >> John
        > >>
        > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
        > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
        > >>> of the
        > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
        > >>> would
        > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
        > >>>
        > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
        > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
        > >>> tried
        > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
        > >>>
        > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
        > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
        > >>> 1/4
        > >>> cup to one quart
        > >>>
        > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
        > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
        > >>>
        > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Messages in this topic (8)
        > > ______________________________________________________________________
        > > __
        > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
        > > Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
        > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
        > >
        > > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
        > > I have
        > > tried
        > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
        > >
        > > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
        > > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
        > > Mary on this list is great with wood.
        > > Mary are you out there?
        > > Hope this helps
        > > John
        > >
        > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hey John:
        > >>
        > >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
        > >> Sorry
        > >> but I don't understand this line..
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >>
        > >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
        > >> work
        > >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
        > >> grade,
        > >> which I don't know if this will work.
        > >>
        > >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
        > >> and see
        > >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
        > >> You this
        > >> this is to strong or to week.
        > >>
        > >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Joe
        > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
        > >> Goode
        > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>> Hello R2D2
        > >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
        > >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
        > >> excellent.
        > >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
        > >>> supplier...then
        > >> its
        > >>> tried and true.
        > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
        > >>> ink meld
        > >> into
        > >>> the mordant(alum).
        > >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
        > >>> try it.
        > >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
        > >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
        > >>> John
        > >>>
        > >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
        > >>>> Borax &
        > >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
        > >>>> of the
        > >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
        > >>>> would
        > >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
        > >>>>
        > >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
        > >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
        > >>>> tried
        > >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
        > >>>>
        > >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
        > >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
        > >>>> mix 1/4
        > >>>> cup to one quart
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
        > >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Messages in this topic (8)
        > > ______________________________________________________________________
        > > __
        > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
        > > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
        > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
        > >
        > > Hello again John,
        > >
        > > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
        > > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She
        > > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that
        > > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it. I
        > > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered
        > > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top
        > > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the
        > > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and
        > > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
        > >
        > > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
        > >
        > > Joe
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
        > >> I have
        > >> tried
        > >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
        > >>
        > >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
        > >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
        > >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
        > >> Mary are you out there?
        > >> Hope this helps
        > >> John
        > >>
        > >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> Hey John:
        > >>>
        > >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd
        > >>> doing. Sorry
        > >>> but I don't understand this line..
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >>>
        > >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
        > >>> work
        > >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
        > >>> food grade,
        > >>> which I don't know if this will work.
        > >>>
        > >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
        > >>> store and see
        > >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
        > >>> You this
        > >>> this is to strong or to week.
        > >>>
        > >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> Joe
        > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > >>> John Goode
        > >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Hello R2D2
        > >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
        > >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
        > >>> excellent.
        > >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
        > >>>> supplier...then
        > >>> its
        > >>>> tried and true.
        > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
        > >>>> ink meld
        > >>> into
        > >>>> the mordant(alum).
        > >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
        > >>>> try it.
        > >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
        > >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
        > >>>> John
        > >>>>
        > >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
        > >>>>> Borax &
        > >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
        > >>>>> top of the
        > >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
        > >>>>> would
        > >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
        > >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I
        > >>>>> have tried
        > >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
        > >>>>> trouble.
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
        > >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
        > >>>>> mix 1/4
        > >>>>> cup to one quart
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
        > >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Messages in this topic (8)
        > > ______________________________________________________________________
        > > __
        > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
        > > Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
        > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
        > >
        > > Joe
        > > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
        > > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a
        > > shellac over
        > > it.
        > > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
        > > John
        > >
        > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hello again John,
        > >>
        > >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
        > >> talking
        > >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a
        > >> great job
        > >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for
        > >> me to join
        > >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a
        > >> good sand
        > >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will
        > >> help. The
        > >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making
        > >> them stick
        > >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not
        > >> all and
        > >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
        > >>
        > >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Joe
        > >>
        > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
        > >> Goode
        > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the
        > >>> primer. I have
        > >>> tried
        > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
        > >>>
        > >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
        > >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
        > >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
        > >>> Mary are you out there?
        > >>> Hope this helps
        > >>> John
        > >>>
        > >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Hey John:
        > >>>>
        > >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
        > >> Sorry
        > >>>> but I don't understand this line..
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose
        > >>>> which work
        > >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
        > >> grade,
        > >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
        > >>>>
        > >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
        > >>>> store and
        > >> see
        > >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
        > >> this
        > >>>> this is to strong or to week.
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Joe
        > >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
        > >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
        > >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
        > >>
        > >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> Hello R2D2
        > >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
        > >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
        > >>>> excellent.
        > >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
        > >> supplier...then
        > >>>> its
        > >>>>> tried and true.
        > >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling
        > >>>>> correct?
        > >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
        > >> meld
        > >>>> into
        > >>>>> the mordant(alum).
        > >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
        > >>>>> try
        > >> it.
        > >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
        > >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
        > >>>>> John
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
        > >>>>>> Borax
        > >> &
        > >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
        > >>>>>> top of
        > >> the
        > >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
        > >> would
        > >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
        > >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
        > >> tried
        > >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
        > >>>>>> trouble.
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to
        > >>>>>> get
        > >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
        > >> 1/4
        > >>>>>> cup to one quart
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
        > >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Messages in this topic (8)
        > > ______________________________________________________________________
        > > __
        > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
        > > Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
        > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
        > >
        > > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel,
        > > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the
        > > ornament. Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
        > >
        > > Anyone have any luck with this?
        > >
        > > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push
        > > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top,
        > > then it would be marbled as you brought it up? Does anyone
        > > remember this or waht they used? I wasn't into marbling in those
        > > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
        > > Sue
        > >
        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Hello R2D2
        > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
        > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
        > >> excellent.
        > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
        > >> supplier...then its
        > >> tried and true.
        > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
        > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
        > >> meld into
        > >> the mordant(alum).
        > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
        > >> try it.
        > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
        > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
        > >> John
        > >>
        > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
        > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
        > >>> of the
        > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
        > >>> would
        > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
        > >>>
        > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
        > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
        > >>> tried
        > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
        > >>>
        > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
        > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
        > >>> 1/4
        > >>> cup to one quart
        > >>>
        > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
        > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
        > >>>
        > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Messages in this topic (8)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > --
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > --
        > >
        >
      • r2d21069
        Thanks for the info. I think I got this right. You are saying after I get my object ready for painting, I can apply the alum to my object, let it dry, then I
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 1, 2010
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          Thanks for the info. I think I got this right. You are saying after I get my object ready for painting, I can apply the alum to my object, let it dry, then I can put a base coat on it,whatever color I choose as lone as it’s acrylic paint, Let it dry and then I can sand it down lightly just to remove the grain if needed, then apply the Alum once again, let it dry, and then dip it into my size with my colors. So what you are saying is that the paint will stick to the base coat after I apply the Alum again and let it dry.

          Am I correct on this?

          The sealer I have been using it a white acrylic enamel. Mary told me that this could very well be my problem also. She is so helpful, and what a great person she has been to take her time and help me. I have found that a lot of people on this sight have been good to me, and helpful also. Just wish more people were as kind as the people on here.

          Again, thanks for the info.

          Take care and God Bless

          Joe

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "G" <kulibert@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have been marbling on my woodturnings for some time. I have seen Mary's technique and use a similar method. I first dampen the wood to raise the grain and then sand off the raised grain. I then typically treat with alum solution, let it dry and then marble it with acrylic paint over methocel or carag. No problems with the paint sticking. If I want a backround color, I raise the grain and sand but then cover the surgace with acrylic paint. The same paint I will be using to marble. After this dries I may sand a little to remove any raised grain but then I apply the alum, let it dry and marble. What ever you are using for a sealer must not be compatible with acrylic paint. If you must seal change the sealer type. We have many people marbling turnings with no problems and Mary's article is the basis for all the work being done. You may try a clear acrylic to seal if you must.
          >
          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re.
          > > marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn
          > > and put in their thoughts as well.
          > >
          > > I still think the primer/sealer is your problem. The borax and water
          > > thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I
          > > would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan. I don't think your
          > > problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.). I still think
          > > it's the sealer.
          > >
          > > What type of primer/sealers have you used?
          > >
          > > Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior
          > > to aluming and marbling....I do question this. If what you are
          > > marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the
          > > marbling process without problems. Most folks feel that wood can
          > > never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being
          > > a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all
          > > circumstances. If there are water based laminations - that would be
          > > a problem. If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a
          > > problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the
          > > type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the
          > > piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or
          > > changing the integrity of the piece.
          > >
          > > Also - There is a difference between primer and sealer. If you must
          > > use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a
          > > sealer and not a primer. And one coat. and it could be that there
          > > are some brands that work better than others. I never seal the wood,
          > > as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I
          > > marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet. If you do use a sealer,
          > > you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the
          > > sealer raises the grain. But then again - some sealers may work
          > > better than others. I know Marina has used sealers
          > > successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?
          > >
          > > Mary
          > >
          > >
          > > On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          > >
          > > > There are 6 messages in this issue.
          > > >
          > > > Topics in this digest:
          > > >
          > > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > From: r2d21069
          > > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > From: r2d21069
          > > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > From: John Goode
          > > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > From: r2d21069
          > > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > From: John Goode
          > > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > From: artsycole
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Messages
          > > > ______________________________________________________________________
          > > > __
          > > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@ r2d21069
          > > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
          > > >
          > > > One more thing John.
          > > >
          > > > What type of paint/ink are you using?
          > > >
          > > > Thanks again
          > > > Take care and God Bless
          > > >
          > > > Joe
          > > >
          > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >> Hello R2D2
          > > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
          > > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
          > > >> excellent.
          > > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
          > > >> supplier...then its
          > > >> tried and true.
          > > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
          > > >> meld into
          > > >> the mordant(alum).
          > > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
          > > >> try it.
          > > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
          > > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
          > > >> John
          > > >>
          > > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
          > > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
          > > >>> of the
          > > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
          > > >>> would
          > > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
          > > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
          > > >>> tried
          > > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
          > > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
          > > >>> 1/4
          > > >>> cup to one quart
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
          > > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Messages in this topic (8)
          > > > ______________________________________________________________________
          > > > __
          > > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@ r2d21069
          > > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
          > > >
          > > > Hey John:
          > > >
          > > > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
          > > > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
          > > >
          > > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >
          > > > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
          > > > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
          > > > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
          > > >
          > > > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
          > > > and see what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on
          > > > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Joe
          > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >> Hello R2D2
          > > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
          > > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
          > > >> excellent.
          > > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
          > > >> supplier...then its
          > > >> tried and true.
          > > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
          > > >> meld into
          > > >> the mordant(alum).
          > > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
          > > >> try it.
          > > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
          > > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
          > > >> John
          > > >>
          > > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
          > > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
          > > >>> of the
          > > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
          > > >>> would
          > > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
          > > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
          > > >>> tried
          > > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
          > > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
          > > >>> 1/4
          > > >>> cup to one quart
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
          > > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Messages in this topic (8)
          > > > ______________________________________________________________________
          > > > __
          > > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@ jbg78734
          > > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
          > > >
          > > > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
          > > > I have
          > > > tried
          > > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
          > > >
          > > > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
          > > > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
          > > > Mary on this list is great with wood.
          > > > Mary are you out there?
          > > > Hope this helps
          > > > John
          > > >
          > > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> Hey John:
          > > >>
          > > >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
          > > >> Sorry
          > > >> but I don't understand this line..
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >>
          > > >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
          > > >> work
          > > >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
          > > >> grade,
          > > >> which I don't know if this will work.
          > > >>
          > > >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
          > > >> and see
          > > >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
          > > >> You this
          > > >> this is to strong or to week.
          > > >>
          > > >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> Joe
          > > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
          > > >> Goode
          > > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Hello R2D2
          > > >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
          > > >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
          > > >> excellent.
          > > >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
          > > >>> supplier...then
          > > >> its
          > > >>> tried and true.
          > > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
          > > >>> ink meld
          > > >> into
          > > >>> the mordant(alum).
          > > >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
          > > >>> try it.
          > > >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
          > > >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
          > > >>> John
          > > >>>
          > > >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
          > > >>>> Borax &
          > > >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
          > > >>>> of the
          > > >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
          > > >>>> would
          > > >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
          > > >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
          > > >>>> tried
          > > >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
          > > >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
          > > >>>> mix 1/4
          > > >>>> cup to one quart
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
          > > >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Messages in this topic (8)
          > > > ______________________________________________________________________
          > > > __
          > > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@ r2d21069
          > > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
          > > >
          > > > Hello again John,
          > > >
          > > > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
          > > > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She
          > > > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that
          > > > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it. I
          > > > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered
          > > > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top
          > > > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the
          > > > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and
          > > > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
          > > >
          > > > Joe
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
          > > >> I have
          > > >> tried
          > > >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
          > > >>
          > > >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
          > > >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
          > > >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
          > > >> Mary are you out there?
          > > >> Hope this helps
          > > >> John
          > > >>
          > > >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Hey John:
          > > >>>
          > > >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd
          > > >>> doing. Sorry
          > > >>> but I don't understand this line..
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
          > > >>> work
          > > >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
          > > >>> food grade,
          > > >>> which I don't know if this will work.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
          > > >>> store and see
          > > >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
          > > >>> You this
          > > >>> this is to strong or to week.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Joe
          > > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > > >>> John Goode
          > > >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Hello R2D2
          > > >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
          > > >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
          > > >>> excellent.
          > > >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
          > > >>>> supplier...then
          > > >>> its
          > > >>>> tried and true.
          > > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
          > > >>>> ink meld
          > > >>> into
          > > >>>> the mordant(alum).
          > > >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
          > > >>>> try it.
          > > >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
          > > >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
          > > >>>> John
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
          > > >>>>> Borax &
          > > >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
          > > >>>>> top of the
          > > >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
          > > >>>>> would
          > > >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
          > > >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I
          > > >>>>> have tried
          > > >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
          > > >>>>> trouble.
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
          > > >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
          > > >>>>> mix 1/4
          > > >>>>> cup to one quart
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
          > > >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Messages in this topic (8)
          > > > ______________________________________________________________________
          > > > __
          > > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@ jbg78734
          > > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
          > > >
          > > > Joe
          > > > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
          > > > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a
          > > > shellac over
          > > > it.
          > > > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
          > > > John
          > > >
          > > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> Hello again John,
          > > >>
          > > >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
          > > >> talking
          > > >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a
          > > >> great job
          > > >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for
          > > >> me to join
          > > >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a
          > > >> good sand
          > > >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will
          > > >> help. The
          > > >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making
          > > >> them stick
          > > >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not
          > > >> all and
          > > >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
          > > >>
          > > >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> Joe
          > > >>
          > > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
          > > >> Goode
          > > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the
          > > >>> primer. I have
          > > >>> tried
          > > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
          > > >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
          > > >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
          > > >>> Mary are you out there?
          > > >>> Hope this helps
          > > >>> John
          > > >>>
          > > >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Hey John:
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
          > > >> Sorry
          > > >>>> but I don't understand this line..
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose
          > > >>>> which work
          > > >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
          > > >> grade,
          > > >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
          > > >>>> store and
          > > >> see
          > > >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
          > > >> this
          > > >>>> this is to strong or to week.
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>> Joe
          > > >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
          > > >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
          > > >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
          > > >>
          > > >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> Hello R2D2
          > > >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
          > > >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
          > > >>>> excellent.
          > > >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
          > > >> supplier...then
          > > >>>> its
          > > >>>>> tried and true.
          > > >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling
          > > >>>>> correct?
          > > >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
          > > >> meld
          > > >>>> into
          > > >>>>> the mordant(alum).
          > > >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
          > > >>>>> try
          > > >> it.
          > > >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
          > > >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
          > > >>>>> John
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
          > > >>>>>> Borax
          > > >> &
          > > >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
          > > >>>>>> top of
          > > >> the
          > > >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
          > > >> would
          > > >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
          > > >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
          > > >> tried
          > > >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
          > > >>>>>> trouble.
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to
          > > >>>>>> get
          > > >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
          > > >> 1/4
          > > >>>>>> cup to one quart
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
          > > >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>>
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Messages in this topic (8)
          > > > ______________________________________________________________________
          > > > __
          > > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
          > > > Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@ artsycole
          > > > Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
          > > >
          > > > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel,
          > > > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the
          > > > ornament. Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
          > > >
          > > > Anyone have any luck with this?
          > > >
          > > > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push
          > > > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top,
          > > > then it would be marbled as you brought it up? Does anyone
          > > > remember this or waht they used? I wasn't into marbling in those
          > > > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
          > > > Sue
          > > >
          > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >> Hello R2D2
          > > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
          > > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
          > > >> excellent.
          > > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
          > > >> supplier...then its
          > > >> tried and true.
          > > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
          > > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
          > > >> meld into
          > > >> the mordant(alum).
          > > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
          > > >> try it.
          > > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
          > > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
          > > >> John
          > > >>
          > > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
          > > >>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
          > > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
          > > >>> of the
          > > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
          > > >>> would
          > > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
          > > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
          > > >>> tried
          > > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
          > > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
          > > >>> 1/4
          > > >>> cup to one quart
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
          > > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
          > > >>>
          > > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Messages in this topic (8)
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > > --
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > > --
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Laura Sims
          Dear Joe, Here are some tips I have learned by working with some woodturners.   Before I list tips here is a summary of my set up of choice.  Alum is applied
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 2, 2010
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            Dear Joe,
            Here are some tips I have learned by working with some woodturners.  
            Before I list tips here is a summary of my set up of choice.  Alum is applied directly to the wood without a sealer.  Golden Acrylics and methyl cellulose are what I have used most, though suminagashi on wood is beautiful.  
            Things to consider:a) variations in density of wood grain, hard and soft rings can alter the printb) resin content may act as a resist creating voids or cause small bubbles in the pattern.  ex. exotic hardwoods may not work well due to resin contentc) the surface should be sanded smooth, but not so finely sanded that the surface is "burnished" d) the wood should not be lacquered before marblinge) maple, ash and walnut work wellf) if warping may be a problem it helps to dry the piece slowly.  one way is to place the piece in a plastic bag over night, remove the piece, turn the bag inside out (condensation now on outside), place piece back in bag overnight and repeat as long as necessary.  g) finishes that work  are varnish, deft, water-bourne varnish, polyurethane and krylonf) after the finish is applied the piece can be sanded to remove the raised grain.  a product that works well is "WetorDry Tri-M-Ite Polishing Paper", a cloth backed polishing
            paper 400 - 8000 grit.  no sanding lines are detectable by grit 1200.  available through Rio Grande, 1-800-545-6566
            hope some of this is useful,Lauraindigostonestudio.com

            --- On Mon, 5/31/10, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...> wrote:

            From: Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...>
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 1822
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 9:51 AM

            Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re. 
            marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn 
            and put in their thoughts as well.

            I still think the primer/sealer is your problem.  The borax and water 
            thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I 
            would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan.  I don't think your 
            problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.).  I still think 
            it's the sealer.

            What type of primer/sealers have you used?

            Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior 
            to aluming and marbling....I do question this.  If what you are 
            marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the 
            marbling process without problems.  Most folks feel that wood can 
            never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being 
            a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all 
            circumstances.  If there are water based laminations - that would be 
            a problem.  If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a 
            problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the 
            type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the 
            piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or 
            changing the integrity of the piece.

            Also -  There is a difference between primer and sealer.  If you must 
            use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a 
            sealer and not a primer.  And one coat.  and it could be that there 
            are some brands that work better than others.  I never seal the wood, 
            as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I 
            marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet.  If you do use a sealer,   
            you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the 
            sealer raises the grain.  But then again - some sealers may work 
            better than others.  I know Marina has used sealers 
            successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?

            Mary


            On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:

            > There are 6 messages in this issue.
            >
            > Topics in this digest:
            >
            > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
            >     From: r2d21069
            > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
            >     From: r2d21069
            > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
            >     From: John Goode
            > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
            >     From: r2d21069
            > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
            >     From: John Goode
            > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
            >     From: artsycole
            >
            >
            > Messages
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
            >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
            >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
            >
            > One more thing John.
            >
            > What type of paint/ink are you using?
            >
            > Thanks again
            > Take care and God Bless
            >
            > Joe
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hello R2D2
            >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
            >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
            >> excellent.
            >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
            >> supplier...then its
            >> tried and true.
            >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
            >> meld into
            >> the mordant(alum).
            >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
            >> try it.
            >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
            >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
            >> John
            >>
            >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
            >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
            >>> of the
            >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
            >>> would
            >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
            >>>
            >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
            >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
            >>> tried
            >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
            >>>
            >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
            >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
            >>> 1/4
            >>> cup to one quart
            >>>
            >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
            >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
            >>>
            >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Messages in this topic (8)
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
            >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
            >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
            >
            > Hey John:
            >
            > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
            > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
            >
            > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >
            > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
            > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
            > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
            >
            > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
            > and see what happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on 
            > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
            >
            > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
            >
            >
            > Joe
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hello R2D2
            >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
            >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
            >> excellent.
            >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
            >> supplier...then its
            >> tried and true.
            >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
            >> meld into
            >> the mordant(alum).
            >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
            >> try it.
            >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
            >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
            >> John
            >>
            >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
            >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
            >>> of the
            >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
            >>> would
            >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
            >>>
            >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
            >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
            >>> tried
            >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
            >>>
            >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
            >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
            >>> 1/4
            >>> cup to one quart
            >>>
            >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
            >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
            >>>
            >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Messages in this topic (8)
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
            >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
            >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
            >
            > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
            > I have
            > tried
            > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
            >
            > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
            > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
            > Mary on this list is great with wood.
            > Mary are you out there?
            > Hope this helps
            > John
            >
            > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> Hey John:
            >>
            >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
            >> Sorry
            >> but I don't understand this line..
            >>
            >>
            >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >>
            >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
            >> work
            >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food 
            >> grade,
            >> which I don't know if this will work.
            >>
            >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
            >> and see
            >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
            >> You this
            >> this is to strong or to week.
            >>
            >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
            >>
            >>
            >> Joe
            >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
            >> Goode
            >> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> Hello R2D2
            >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
            >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
            >> excellent.
            >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
            >>> supplier...then
            >> its
            >>> tried and true.
            >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
            >>> ink meld
            >> into
            >>> the mordant(alum).
            >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
            >>> try it.
            >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
            >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
            >>> John
            >>>
            >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
            >>>> Borax &
            >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
            >>>> of the
            >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
            >>>> would
            >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
            >>>>
            >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
            >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
            >>>> tried
            >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
            >>>>
            >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
            >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
            >>>> mix 1/4
            >>>> cup to one quart
            >>>>
            >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
            >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
            >>>>
            >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Messages in this topic (8)
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
            >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
            >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
            >
            > Hello again John,
            >
            > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
            > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She 
            > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that 
            > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it.  I 
            > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered 
            > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top 
            > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the 
            > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and 
            > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
            >
            > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
            >> I have
            >> tried
            >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
            >>
            >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
            >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
            >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
            >> Mary are you out there?
            >> Hope this helps
            >> John
            >>
            >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Hey John:
            >>>
            >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd 
            >>> doing. Sorry
            >>> but I don't understand this line..
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >>>
            >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
            >>> work
            >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
            >>> food grade,
            >>> which I don't know if this will work.
            >>>
            >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
            >>> store and see
            >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
            >>> You this
            >>> this is to strong or to week.
            >>>
            >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Joe
            >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, 
            >>> John Goode
            >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>> Hello R2D2
            >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
            >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
            >>> excellent.
            >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
            >>>> supplier...then
            >>> its
            >>>> tried and true.
            >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
            >>>> ink meld
            >>> into
            >>>> the mordant(alum).
            >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
            >>>> try it.
            >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
            >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
            >>>> John
            >>>>
            >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
            >>>>> Borax &
            >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
            >>>>> top of the
            >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
            >>>>> would
            >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
            >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I 
            >>>>> have tried
            >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
            >>>>> trouble.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
            >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
            >>>>> mix 1/4
            >>>>> cup to one quart
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
            >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Messages in this topic (8)
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
            >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
            >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
            >
            > Joe
            > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
            > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a 
            > shellac over
            > it.
            > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
            > John
            >
            > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> Hello again John,
            >>
            >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
            >> talking
            >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a 
            >> great job
            >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for 
            >> me to join
            >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a 
            >> good sand
            >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will 
            >> help. The
            >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making 
            >> them stick
            >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not 
            >> all and
            >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
            >>
            >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
            >>
            >>
            >> Joe
            >>
            >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
            >> Goode
            >> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the 
            >>> primer. I have
            >>> tried
            >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
            >>>
            >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
            >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
            >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
            >>> Mary are you out there?
            >>> Hope this helps
            >>> John
            >>>
            >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>> Hey John:
            >>>>
            >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
            >> Sorry
            >>>> but I don't understand this line..
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >>>>
            >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose 
            >>>> which work
            >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
            >> grade,
            >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
            >>>>
            >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
            >>>> store and
            >> see
            >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
            >> this
            >>>> this is to strong or to week.
            >>>>
            >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>> Joe
            >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
            >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
            >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
            >>
            >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Hello R2D2
            >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
            >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
            >>>> excellent.
            >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
            >> supplier...then
            >>>> its
            >>>>> tried and true.
            >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling 
            >>>>> correct?
            >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
            >> meld
            >>>> into
            >>>>> the mordant(alum).
            >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
            >>>>> try
            >> it.
            >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
            >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
            >>>>> John
            >>>>>
            >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
            >>>>>> Borax
            >> &
            >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
            >>>>>> top of
            >> the
            >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
            >> would
            >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
            >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
            >> tried
            >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
            >>>>>> trouble.
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to 
            >>>>>> get
            >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
            >> 1/4
            >>>>>> cup to one quart
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
            >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Messages in this topic (8)
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > __
            > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
            >     Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
            >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
            >
            > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel, 
            > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the 
            > ornament.  Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
            >
            > Anyone have any luck with this?
            >
            > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push 
            > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top, 
            > then it would be marbled as you brought it up?  Does anyone 
            > remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into marbling in those 
            > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
            > Sue
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hello R2D2
            >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
            >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
            >> excellent.
            >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
            >> supplier...then its
            >> tried and true.
            >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
            >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
            >> meld into
            >> the mordant(alum).
            >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
            >> try it.
            >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
            >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
            >> John
            >>
            >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
            >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
            >>> of the
            >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
            >>> would
            >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
            >>>
            >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
            >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
            >>> tried
            >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
            >>>
            >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
            >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
            >>> 1/4
            >>> cup to one quart
            >>>
            >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
            >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
            >>>
            >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Messages in this topic (8)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > --
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > --
            >



            ------------------------------------

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • r2d21069
            Thanks so much. Mary was on the ball. She told me to sign up on some of these sights. Everyone is so helpful and they take pride in what they do. One day I
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 2, 2010
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              Thanks so much.

              Mary was on the ball. She told me to sign up on some of these sights. Everyone is so helpful and they take pride in what they do.
              One day I will get this right because of all the help from Mary and everyone else on here.

              Thanks you again, and many thanks to everyone.

              Take care and God Bless.

              Joe

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Laura Sims <indigostone2@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Joe,
              > Here are some tips I have learned by working with some woodturners.  
              > Before I list tips here is a summary of my set up of choice.  Alum is applied directly to the wood without a sealer.  Golden Acrylics and methyl cellulose are what I have used most, though suminagashi on wood is beautiful.  
              > Things to consider:a) variations in density of wood grain, hard and soft rings can alter the printb) resin content may act as a resist creating voids or cause small bubbles in the pattern.  ex. exotic hardwoods may not work well due to resin contentc) the surface should be sanded smooth, but not so finely sanded that the surface is "burnished" d) the wood should not be lacquered before marblinge) maple, ash and walnut work wellf) if warping may be a problem it helps to dry the piece slowly.  one way is to place the piece in a plastic bag over night, remove the piece, turn the bag inside out (condensation now on outside), place piece back in bag overnight and repeat as long as necessary.  g) finishes that work  are varnish, deft, water-bourne varnish, polyurethane and krylonf) after the finish is applied the piece can be sanded to remove the raised grain.  a product that works well is "WetorDry Tri-M-Ite Polishing Paper", a cloth backed polishing
              > paper 400 - 8000 grit.  no sanding lines are detectable by grit 1200.  available through Rio Grande, 1-800-545-6566
              > hope some of this is useful,Lauraindigostonestudio.com
              >
              > --- On Mon, 5/31/10, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...>
              > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 1822
              > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 9:51 AM
              >
              > Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re. 
              > marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn 
              > and put in their thoughts as well.
              >
              > I still think the primer/sealer is your problem.  The borax and water 
              > thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I 
              > would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan.  I don't think your 
              > problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.).  I still think 
              > it's the sealer.
              >
              > What type of primer/sealers have you used?
              >
              > Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior 
              > to aluming and marbling....I do question this.  If what you are 
              > marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the 
              > marbling process without problems.  Most folks feel that wood can 
              > never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being 
              > a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all 
              > circumstances.  If there are water based laminations - that would be 
              > a problem.  If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a 
              > problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the 
              > type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the 
              > piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or 
              > changing the integrity of the piece.
              >
              > Also -  There is a difference between primer and sealer.  If you must 
              > use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a 
              > sealer and not a primer.  And one coat.  and it could be that there 
              > are some brands that work better than others.  I never seal the wood, 
              > as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I 
              > marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet.  If you do use a sealer,   
              > you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the 
              > sealer raises the grain.  But then again - some sealers may work 
              > better than others.  I know Marina has used sealers 
              > successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?
              >
              > Mary
              >
              >
              > On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:
              >
              > > There are 6 messages in this issue.
              > >
              > > Topics in this digest:
              > >
              > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     From: r2d21069
              > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     From: r2d21069
              > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     From: John Goode
              > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     From: r2d21069
              > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     From: John Goode
              > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     From: artsycole
              > >
              > >
              > > Messages
              > > ______________________________________________________________________
              > > __
              > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
              > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
              > >
              > > One more thing John.
              > >
              > > What type of paint/ink are you using?
              > >
              > > Thanks again
              > > Take care and God Bless
              > >
              > > Joe
              > >
              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Hello R2D2
              > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
              > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
              > >> excellent.
              > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
              > >> supplier...then its
              > >> tried and true.
              > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
              > >> meld into
              > >> the mordant(alum).
              > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
              > >> try it.
              > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
              > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
              > >> John
              > >>
              > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
              > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
              > >>> of the
              > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
              > >>> would
              > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
              > >>>
              > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
              > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
              > >>> tried
              > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
              > >>>
              > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
              > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
              > >>> 1/4
              > >>> cup to one quart
              > >>>
              > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
              > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
              > >>>
              > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Messages in this topic (8)
              > > ______________________________________________________________________
              > > __
              > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
              > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
              > >
              > > Hey John:
              > >
              > > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
              > > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
              > >
              > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >
              > > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
              > > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
              > > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
              > >
              > > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
              > > and see what happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on 
              > > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
              > >
              > > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
              > >
              > >
              > > Joe
              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Hello R2D2
              > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
              > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
              > >> excellent.
              > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
              > >> supplier...then its
              > >> tried and true.
              > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
              > >> meld into
              > >> the mordant(alum).
              > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
              > >> try it.
              > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
              > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
              > >> John
              > >>
              > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
              > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
              > >>> of the
              > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
              > >>> would
              > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
              > >>>
              > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
              > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
              > >>> tried
              > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
              > >>>
              > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
              > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
              > >>> 1/4
              > >>> cup to one quart
              > >>>
              > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
              > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
              > >>>
              > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Messages in this topic (8)
              > > ______________________________________________________________________
              > > __
              > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
              > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
              > >
              > > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
              > > I have
              > > tried
              > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
              > >
              > > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
              > > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
              > > Mary on this list is great with wood.
              > > Mary are you out there?
              > > Hope this helps
              > > John
              > >
              > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Hey John:
              > >>
              > >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
              > >> Sorry
              > >> but I don't understand this line..
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >>
              > >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
              > >> work
              > >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food 
              > >> grade,
              > >> which I don't know if this will work.
              > >>
              > >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
              > >> and see
              > >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
              > >> You this
              > >> this is to strong or to week.
              > >>
              > >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Joe
              > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
              > >> Goode
              > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>> Hello R2D2
              > >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
              > >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
              > >> excellent.
              > >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
              > >>> supplier...then
              > >> its
              > >>> tried and true.
              > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
              > >>> ink meld
              > >> into
              > >>> the mordant(alum).
              > >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
              > >>> try it.
              > >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
              > >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
              > >>> John
              > >>>
              > >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
              > >>>> Borax &
              > >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
              > >>>> of the
              > >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
              > >>>> would
              > >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
              > >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
              > >>>> tried
              > >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
              > >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
              > >>>> mix 1/4
              > >>>> cup to one quart
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
              > >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Messages in this topic (8)
              > > ______________________________________________________________________
              > > __
              > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
              > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
              > >
              > > Hello again John,
              > >
              > > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
              > > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She 
              > > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that 
              > > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it.  I 
              > > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered 
              > > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top 
              > > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the 
              > > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and 
              > > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
              > >
              > > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
              > >
              > > Joe
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
              > >> I have
              > >> tried
              > >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
              > >>
              > >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
              > >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
              > >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
              > >> Mary are you out there?
              > >> Hope this helps
              > >> John
              > >>
              > >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> Hey John:
              > >>>
              > >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd 
              > >>> doing. Sorry
              > >>> but I don't understand this line..
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >>>
              > >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
              > >>> work
              > >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
              > >>> food grade,
              > >>> which I don't know if this will work.
              > >>>
              > >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
              > >>> store and see
              > >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
              > >>> You this
              > >>> this is to strong or to week.
              > >>>
              > >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> Joe
              > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, 
              > >>> John Goode
              > >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Hello R2D2
              > >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
              > >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
              > >>> excellent.
              > >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
              > >>>> supplier...then
              > >>> its
              > >>>> tried and true.
              > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
              > >>>> ink meld
              > >>> into
              > >>>> the mordant(alum).
              > >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
              > >>>> try it.
              > >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
              > >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
              > >>>> John
              > >>>>
              > >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
              > >>>>> Borax &
              > >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
              > >>>>> top of the
              > >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
              > >>>>> would
              > >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
              > >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I 
              > >>>>> have tried
              > >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
              > >>>>> trouble.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
              > >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
              > >>>>> mix 1/4
              > >>>>> cup to one quart
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
              > >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Messages in this topic (8)
              > > ______________________________________________________________________
              > > __
              > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
              > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
              > >
              > > Joe
              > > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
              > > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a 
              > > shellac over
              > > it.
              > > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
              > > John
              > >
              > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Hello again John,
              > >>
              > >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
              > >> talking
              > >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a 
              > >> great job
              > >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for 
              > >> me to join
              > >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a 
              > >> good sand
              > >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will 
              > >> help. The
              > >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making 
              > >> them stick
              > >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not 
              > >> all and
              > >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
              > >>
              > >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Joe
              > >>
              > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
              > >> Goode
              > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the 
              > >>> primer. I have
              > >>> tried
              > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
              > >>>
              > >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
              > >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
              > >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
              > >>> Mary are you out there?
              > >>> Hope this helps
              > >>> John
              > >>>
              > >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Hey John:
              > >>>>
              > >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
              > >> Sorry
              > >>>> but I don't understand this line..
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose 
              > >>>> which work
              > >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
              > >> grade,
              > >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
              > >>>> store and
              > >> see
              > >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
              > >> this
              > >>>> this is to strong or to week.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Joe
              > >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
              > >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
              > >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
              > >>
              > >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> Hello R2D2
              > >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
              > >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
              > >>>> excellent.
              > >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
              > >> supplier...then
              > >>>> its
              > >>>>> tried and true.
              > >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling 
              > >>>>> correct?
              > >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
              > >> meld
              > >>>> into
              > >>>>> the mordant(alum).
              > >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
              > >>>>> try
              > >> it.
              > >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
              > >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
              > >>>>> John
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
              > >>>>>> Borax
              > >> &
              > >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
              > >>>>>> top of
              > >> the
              > >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
              > >> would
              > >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
              > >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
              > >> tried
              > >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
              > >>>>>> trouble.
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to 
              > >>>>>> get
              > >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
              > >> 1/4
              > >>>>>> cup to one quart
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
              > >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Messages in this topic (8)
              > > ______________________________________________________________________
              > > __
              > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
              > >     Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
              > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
              > >
              > > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel, 
              > > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the 
              > > ornament.  Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
              > >
              > > Anyone have any luck with this?
              > >
              > > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push 
              > > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top, 
              > > then it would be marbled as you brought it up?  Does anyone 
              > > remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into marbling in those 
              > > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
              > > Sue
              > >
              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Hello R2D2
              > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
              > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
              > >> excellent.
              > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
              > >> supplier...then its
              > >> tried and true.
              > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
              > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
              > >> meld into
              > >> the mordant(alum).
              > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
              > >> try it.
              > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
              > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
              > >> John
              > >>
              > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
              > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
              > >>> of the
              > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
              > >>> would
              > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
              > >>>
              > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
              > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
              > >>> tried
              > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
              > >>>
              > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
              > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
              > >>> 1/4
              > >>> cup to one quart
              > >>>
              > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
              > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
              > >>>
              > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Messages in this topic (8)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > --
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > --
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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