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Introdution and question

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  • pod227
    Hi, I m Silvia, from Italy, and I m a marbling absolute newbie :) I ve done fabric dyeing before, and now I d like to marble fabric to use in my quilts, so the
    Message 1 of 6 , May 19, 2010
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      Hi, I'm Silvia, from Italy, and I'm a marbling absolute newbie :)

      I've done fabric dyeing before, and now I'd like to marble fabric to use in my quilts, so the last week I ordered some methylcellulose and alum to the chemist (May be this sounds strange to you but if I want chemicals I've to go to my chemist... she's very nice and don't do questions :p)

      today the MC arrived so I've made my first size.
      It came out like syrup, I think it's ok. I've put a little amout of it in a glass to do some color try and I'm amazed about the first little result on paper *_*

      But now I've a couple of questions:

      1) I've read that oxgall helps the colour float on the size... I've not the oxgall but I've a "watercolor medium" that's used to make watercolors more adesive on paper and blend togheter better. In your opinion can I use this medium instead the oxgall?

      2) Also if colors float well, sometimes there are drops that sinks. Have I to leave them there or there is a way to get rid of them?
      I've also read about a technique that bring the sinked drops again on size surface, to do some more marbling with them, but I haven't found more istructions about this. Can you explain me this technique?

      Thank you very much

      Silvia
    • marines bengoa
      Hi Sylvia, I marble on fabric and I use Marbo Gum from Pro chemical. Its fantastic. Two tablespoon per 1 gallon of water, blend, pour on tray and  let it set
      Message 2 of 6 , May 19, 2010
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        Hi Sylvia,

        I marble on fabric and I use Marbo Gum from Pro chemical. Its fantastic. Two tablespoon per 1 gallon of water, blend, pour on tray and  let it set for 24 hours. I don't know about the technique you mention, so if you find out , please let me know. Are you dropping your colors too hard? Are your colors thin enough?

        I wish you success!

        Marines




        ________________________________
        From: pod227 <pod227@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 3:59:47 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] Introdution and question

         
        Hi, I'm Silvia, from Italy, and I'm a marbling absolute newbie :)

        I've done fabric dyeing before, and now I'd like to marble fabric to use in my quilts, so the last week I ordered some methylcellulose and alum to the chemist (May be this sounds strange to you but if I want chemicals I've to go to my chemist... she's very nice and don't do questions :p)

        today the MC arrived so I've made my first size.
        It came out like syrup, I think it's ok. I've put a little amout of it in a glass to do some color try and I'm amazed about the first little result on paper *_*

        But now I've a couple of questions:

        1) I've read that oxgall helps the colour float on the size... I've not the oxgall but I've a "watercolor medium" that's used to make watercolors more adesive on paper and blend togheter better. In your opinion can I use this medium instead the oxgall?

        2) Also if colors float well, sometimes there are drops that sinks. Have I to leave them there or there is a way to get rid of them?
        I've also read about a technique that bring the sinked drops again on size surface, to do some more marbling with them, but I haven't found more istructions about this. Can you explain me this technique?

        Thank you very much

        Silvia







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Pod227
        Hi Marines :) Thank for your reply! I ll search for the Pro Chemical product you say, but I ve never seen that brand here, and if I ve to order it via internet
        Message 3 of 6 , May 20, 2010
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          Hi Marines :) Thank for your reply!
          I'll search for the Pro Chemical product you say, but I've never seen that brand here, and if I've to order it via internet may be it will be too much expensive :(
          I'll see :)

          Yesterday I've done my first attempts, and I've understood that ... paint it's a strange, alien, form of life. It's alive!
          Just one example... I've diluited my purple acrilic paint. It's thin, and if I drop it in my size as first color it spread fast and well, very nicely! If I drop it as second color it float but doesn't spread. In any measure.
          I've tested acrylic brands I had yet at home and I've found that pebeo and liquitex works better. The only problem is that some colors tend to be pale. The worst is the red that turn into a pale red/pink both on paper (not alumed) and fabric (alumed).
          Should I use more alum? Are there some colours that are more difficoult to obtain than others? Is red one of these?

          Thank you!

          Silvia


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: marines bengoa
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:25 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Introdution and question



          Hi Sylvia,

          I marble on fabric and I use Marbo Gum from Pro chemical. Its fantastic. Two tablespoon per 1 gallon of water, blend, pour on tray and let it set for 24 hours. I don't know about the technique you mention, so if you find out , please let me know. Are you dropping your colors too hard? Are your colors thin enough?

          I wish you success!

          Marines

          ________________________________
          From: pod227 <pod227@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 3:59:47 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] Introdution and question


          Hi, I'm Silvia, from Italy, and I'm a marbling absolute newbie :)

          I've done fabric dyeing before, and now I'd like to marble fabric to use in my quilts, so the last week I ordered some methylcellulose and alum to the chemist (May be this sounds strange to you but if I want chemicals I've to go to my chemist... she's very nice and don't do questions :p)

          today the MC arrived so I've made my first size.
          It came out like syrup, I think it's ok. I've put a little amout of it in a glass to do some color try and I'm amazed about the first little result on paper *_*

          But now I've a couple of questions:

          1) I've read that oxgall helps the colour float on the size... I've not the oxgall but I've a "watercolor medium" that's used to make watercolors more adesive on paper and blend togheter better. In your opinion can I use this medium instead the oxgall?

          2) Also if colors float well, sometimes there are drops that sinks. Have I to leave them there or there is a way to get rid of them?
          I've also read about a technique that bring the sinked drops again on size surface, to do some more marbling with them, but I haven't found more istructions about this. Can you explain me this technique?

          Thank you very much

          Silvia

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • irisnevins
          It is not as much the color as in red is bad or purple is bad, but rather how it is formulated and how you work with it. That said there are just a lot of
          Message 4 of 6 , May 21, 2010
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            It is not as much the color as in red is bad or purple is bad, but rather how it is formulated and how you work with it. That said there are just a lot of pigments not friendly to the process anyway, in that they don't interact well with others, or smear if watercolor etc.

            To confuse matters, the paint companies are very inconsistent in their formulation. You can find a brand or color that works, then buy it again and it doesn't. Usually this is due to varying amounts of dispersant thrown in. Sometimes the measures are not exact. Frankly it doesn't matter to them, they cater to painters and not marblers. It is true of both acrylic and watercolor paints.

            You really should stick with what works for the people who either work as a marbler or marble often. Use the same size, materials, paints, paper etc. Why bother making all the mistakes we have all made, and solved, for decades. If you search the archives there are many discussions that will save you much time and money. If a paint is too thick or has too little dispersant it sinks, period, due to mainly being heavier than the size. You can add a little diluted Phot-Flo to adjust spreading.

            Many commercial acrylics go pale because they are mainly acrylic paste or base, with some color. It works for painters, not for marblers. You need to find a paint that is high in pigment, though I doubt that the bottle info will give a clue. It will be more expensive, pigment costs more than acrylic base, but cost is not always the key either. For any acrylic work I do, though I prefer watercolors for historical accuracy, is the cheap paint sold as Folk Craft in the Walmarts or big craft stores. It's about $1.00 a bottle and I have to dilute it quite a lot, it is too intense. It floats well, though you need to figure out the best order to lay the paints down in, and in a rare case adjust with Photo-Flo to a few colors. People also use way too much color as beginners, you need very little. It should go on pale and then you layer it and it condenses by having other paint thrown on top of it.

            With Ceram Coat, I get a basic red yellow blue black and white and mix. I might add a nice brown. Another cheap brand I have liked in the past is Ceram-Coat. No snob appeal with these paints but they work great. You may have to experiment with which of the basic colors work, sometimes they too are not immune to the formula irregularity with too much or too little dispersant from one batch to the next. I use an eye dropper full of Photo-Flo in a half cup of water and use as if it were ox-gall for adjusting acrylics. This mix too, by the way, is a sub for ox-gall if you run out...for watercolor. You may want to dilute it a little further for watercolor though. It expands the color slower than gall, but is cheap and available at photo stores. Good to have a bottle on hand. A pure liquid soap will work the same way. I have even used dish soap in a pinch. Not as good as the Photo-Flo though.

            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Pod227<mailto:pod227@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:41 AM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Introdution and question


            Hi Marines :) Thank for your reply!
            I'll search for the Pro Chemical product you say, but I've never seen that brand here, and if I've to order it via internet may be it will be too much expensive :(
            I'll see :)

            Yesterday I've done my first attempts, and I've understood that ... paint it's a strange, alien, form of life. It's alive!
            Just one example... I've diluited my purple acrilic paint. It's thin, and if I drop it in my size as first color it spread fast and well, very nicely! If I drop it as second color it float but doesn't spread. In any measure.
            I've tested acrylic brands I had yet at home and I've found that pebeo and liquitex works better. The only problem is that some colors tend to be pale. The worst is the red that turn into a pale red/pink both on paper (not alumed) and fabric (alumed).
            Should I use more alum? Are there some colours that are more difficoult to obtain than others? Is red one of these?

            Thank you!

            Silvia


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: marines bengoa
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:25 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Introdution and question



            Hi Sylvia,

            I marble on fabric and I use Marbo Gum from Pro chemical. Its fantastic. Two tablespoon per 1 gallon of water, blend, pour on tray and let it set for 24 hours. I don't know about the technique you mention, so if you find out , please let me know. Are you dropping your colors too hard? Are your colors thin enough?

            I wish you success!

            Marines

            ________________________________
            From: pod227 <pod227@...<mailto:pod227@...>>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 3:59:47 PM
            Subject: [Marbling] Introdution and question


            Hi, I'm Silvia, from Italy, and I'm a marbling absolute newbie :)

            I've done fabric dyeing before, and now I'd like to marble fabric to use in my quilts, so the last week I ordered some methylcellulose and alum to the chemist (May be this sounds strange to you but if I want chemicals I've to go to my chemist... she's very nice and don't do questions :p)

            today the MC arrived so I've made my first size.
            It came out like syrup, I think it's ok. I've put a little amout of it in a glass to do some color try and I'm amazed about the first little result on paper *_*

            But now I've a couple of questions:

            1) I've read that oxgall helps the colour float on the size... I've not the oxgall but I've a "watercolor medium" that's used to make watercolors more adesive on paper and blend togheter better. In your opinion can I use this medium instead the oxgall?

            2) Also if colors float well, sometimes there are drops that sinks. Have I to leave them there or there is a way to get rid of them?
            I've also read about a technique that bring the sinked drops again on size surface, to do some more marbling with them, but I haven't found more istructions about this. Can you explain me this technique?

            Thank you very much

            Silvia

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • artsycole
            yes, red, black and metallics give you the most problems. It s hard to find a red paint that will look red on the paper or fabric. It will look red on the
            Message 5 of 6 , May 21, 2010
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              yes, red, black and metallics give you the most problems. It's hard to find a red paint that will look red on the paper or fabric. It will look red on the gel, but not necessarily on the product. Marbogum will need to be ordered over the internet from
              http://www.prochemicalanddye.com/store/product.php?productid=16345&cat=0&page=1

              if that link breaks, go to the main site and put marbo gum in the search box, otherwise there are several other things that can probably be more easily obtained in your country.

              Each paint pigment has a different character and you will have to adjust them as you go to the amount of water and ox gall or whatever you are using. Some people only use water, no ox gall or anything, so test the paint first without it. Also keep your tools clean and try to work in a dust free place as much as possible.
              Good Luck,Sue

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Pod227" <pod227@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Marines :) Thank for your reply!
              > I'll search for the Pro Chemical product you say, but I've never seen that brand here, and if I've to order it via internet may be it will be too much expensive :(
              > I'll see :)
              >
              > Yesterday I've done my first attempts, and I've understood that ... paint it's a strange, alien, form of life. It's alive!
              > Just one example... I've diluited my purple acrilic paint. It's thin, and if I drop it in my size as first color it spread fast and well, very nicely! If I drop it as second color it float but doesn't spread. In any measure.
              > I've tested acrylic brands I had yet at home and I've found that pebeo and liquitex works better. The only problem is that some colors tend to be pale. The worst is the red that turn into a pale red/pink both on paper (not alumed) and fabric (alumed).
              > Should I use more alum? Are there some colours that are more difficoult to obtain than others? Is red one of these?
              >
              > Thank you!
              >
              > Silvia
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: marines bengoa
              > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:25 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Introdution and question
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Sylvia,
              >
              > I marble on fabric and I use Marbo Gum from Pro chemical. Its fantastic. Two tablespoon per 1 gallon of water, blend, pour on tray and let it set for 24 hours. I don't know about the technique you mention, so if you find out , please let me know. Are you dropping your colors too hard? Are your colors thin enough?
              >
              > I wish you success!
              >
              > Marines
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: pod227 <pod227@...>
              > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 3:59:47 PM
              > Subject: [Marbling] Introdution and question
              >
              >
              > Hi, I'm Silvia, from Italy, and I'm a marbling absolute newbie :)
              >
              > I've done fabric dyeing before, and now I'd like to marble fabric to use in my quilts, so the last week I ordered some methylcellulose and alum to the chemist (May be this sounds strange to you but if I want chemicals I've to go to my chemist... she's very nice and don't do questions :p)
              >
              > today the MC arrived so I've made my first size.
              > It came out like syrup, I think it's ok. I've put a little amout of it in a glass to do some color try and I'm amazed about the first little result on paper *_*
              >
              > But now I've a couple of questions:
              >
              > 1) I've read that oxgall helps the colour float on the size... I've not the oxgall but I've a "watercolor medium" that's used to make watercolors more adesive on paper and blend togheter better. In your opinion can I use this medium instead the oxgall?
              >
              > 2) Also if colors float well, sometimes there are drops that sinks. Have I to leave them there or there is a way to get rid of them?
              > I've also read about a technique that bring the sinked drops again on size surface, to do some more marbling with them, but I haven't found more istructions about this. Can you explain me this technique?
              >
              > Thank you very much
              >
              > Silvia
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Pod227
              Thanks Sue and Iris for your advices! Some time ago my grandma gave to me a box full of paints, brushes and other supplies (she painted with acrilycs and
              Message 6 of 6 , May 23, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks Sue and Iris for your advices!
                Some time ago my grandma gave to me a box full of paints, brushes and other supplies (she painted with acrilycs and watercolors but now she uses oil colours). So I had everything at home but the metylcellulose, and when I've found that the best brand seems to be Pebeo I've bought only primary colours and white and black (I had at home only browns from a previous work)
                I agree about don't reinvent the wheel and that's why I've done some researches, but you know, doubts are behind every corner. :)

                At a second look in the "paint box" I've found ox-gall and pigments in little cans. I don't know the brand or type because my grandma took them from big jars at paint scool.
                At my second try I've had more satisfying results, with brighter colours and more definite designs. I've hadded ox-gall to my hard-to-float paints and I've had a good floating. Sometimes too much spreading of the colour... I've to work on the diluition :)
                I'm also understanding better how layers and colour condensation works.

                This week I'm going to try pigment powder. I have to admit that they scare me a little, I've looked for past subject in the list, and I hope I'll survive to them :).
                And overall I'll try with white fabric, not ecru!

                If you want to see my first results I've blogged about them with some photos, here: http://www.orkaloca.com/post/Marbling-fabrics-phase-5-results.aspx
                It's in italian but you can switch language in the right menu.

                every comment and advice is welcome :)

                Orkaloca di Silvia Dell'Aere
                http://www.orkaloca.com
                email: info@...


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: artsycole
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:40 AM
                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introdution and question




                yes, red, black and metallics give you the most problems. It's hard to find a red paint that will look red on the paper or fabric. It will look red on the gel, but not necessarily on the product. Marbogum will need to be ordered over the internet from
                http://www.prochemicalanddye.com/store/product.php?productid=16345&cat=0&page=1

                if that link breaks, go to the main site and put marbo gum in the search box, otherwise there are several other things that can probably be more easily obtained in your country.

                Each paint pigment has a different character and you will have to adjust them as you go to the amount of water and ox gall or whatever you are using. Some people only use water, no ox gall or anything, so test the paint first without it. Also keep your tools clean and try to work in a dust free place as much as possible.
                Good Luck,Sue

                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Pod227" <pod227@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Marines :) Thank for your reply!
                > I'll search for the Pro Chemical product you say, but I've never seen that brand here, and if I've to order it via internet may be it will be too much expensive :(
                > I'll see :)
                >
                > Yesterday I've done my first attempts, and I've understood that ... paint it's a strange, alien, form of life. It's alive!
                > Just one example... I've diluited my purple acrilic paint. It's thin, and if I drop it in my size as first color it spread fast and well, very nicely! If I drop it as second color it float but doesn't spread. In any measure.
                > I've tested acrylic brands I had yet at home and I've found that pebeo and liquitex works better. The only problem is that some colors tend to be pale. The worst is the red that turn into a pale red/pink both on paper (not alumed) and fabric (alumed).
                > Should I use more alum? Are there some colours that are more difficoult to obtain than others? Is red one of these?
                >
                > Thank you!
                >
                > Silvia
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: marines bengoa
                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:25 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Introdution and question
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Sylvia,
                >
                > I marble on fabric and I use Marbo Gum from Pro chemical. Its fantastic. Two tablespoon per 1 gallon of water, blend, pour on tray and let it set for 24 hours. I don't know about the technique you mention, so if you find out , please let me know. Are you dropping your colors too hard? Are your colors thin enough?
                >
                > I wish you success!
                >
                > Marines
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: pod227 <pod227@...>
                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 3:59:47 PM
                > Subject: [Marbling] Introdution and question
                >
                >
                > Hi, I'm Silvia, from Italy, and I'm a marbling absolute newbie :)
                >
                > I've done fabric dyeing before, and now I'd like to marble fabric to use in my quilts, so the last week I ordered some methylcellulose and alum to the chemist (May be this sounds strange to you but if I want chemicals I've to go to my chemist... she's very nice and don't do questions :p)
                >
                > today the MC arrived so I've made my first size.
                > It came out like syrup, I think it's ok. I've put a little amout of it in a glass to do some color try and I'm amazed about the first little result on paper *_*
                >
                > But now I've a couple of questions:
                >
                > 1) I've read that oxgall helps the colour float on the size... I've not the oxgall but I've a "watercolor medium" that's used to make watercolors more adesive on paper and blend togheter better. In your opinion can I use this medium instead the oxgall?
                >
                > 2) Also if colors float well, sometimes there are drops that sinks. Have I to leave them there or there is a way to get rid of them?
                > I've also read about a technique that bring the sinked drops again on size surface, to do some more marbling with them, but I haven't found more istructions about this. Can you explain me this technique?
                >
                > Thank you very much
                >
                > Silvia
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





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