Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Need Help

Expand Messages
  • simonl332002
    Wow, you guys are all just great--- a plethora of information! I am going to take most of the day and go through all the blogs and web sites, they are so
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 9, 2009
      Wow, you guys are all just great--- a plethora of information! I am going to take most of the day and go through all the blogs and web sites, they are so beautiful and just full of information too. I don't know why I haven't tried golden paints, maybe the price? I too would like to do fabric someday, I am a quilter from way back. I thought I would start with paper because my Grandaughter uses it in her scrapbooking and I thought it was so pretty. Again, thanks so much for all the help, and now, to get busy putting it all together.

      Linda, I used to live in Tucson, 35 years ago, a lot has changed there.

      Mary



      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Linda <marblers2008@...> wrote:
      >
      > Mary - we're in Tucson, used to water and heat!
      >
      > Linda Moran
      > --
      > An Ancient Art Made Modern!
      > Marble-T Design
      > http://www.marbledfab.com
      > Blog: http://marbledmusings.blogspot.com
      >
    • Sue Cole
      I would think Phoenix would be large enough you could contact one of the Universities and ask for bookbinding or marbling classes. Sometimes they offer them
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 10, 2009
        I would think Phoenix would be large enough you could contact one
        of the Universities and ask for bookbinding or marbling classes.
        Sometimes they offer them together.

        I've bought pretty much every book available on marbling there is
        and downloaded some of the internet.

        Also, there are two excellent dvd's on marbling, one by Peggy
        Skycraft which you can buy thorugh dharma trading at
        www.dharmatrading.com and one by Mimi Schleicher at her site.:
        http://www.marbling.com/ both of these helped me a lot.

        Also, there are many marbling videos on www.youtube.com just put
        marbling or ebru in the search box. One of the best is by two
        australian women who use oil colors, but you can learn by watching
        them is:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILOfT1bs

        I have had very god luck with two cheaper brands of acrylics for both
        paper and silk scarves. I am in Fairbanks, AK so have to get a lot of
        things over the internet, but these two are Apple Barrel Brand in the
        crafts section at WalMart for $2.00 for an 8 oz bottle and Artworks
        Artist Quality Acrylics - also says ProArt on the bottle about halfway
        down for $7 a bottle from Ben Franklin.

        The paints I have had no luck with at all were the metallic ones - in
        any brand so far. The one I had the biggest frustration with was the
        carbon black from Golden - it "bleeds" of the paper almost every
        time.

        I started out with Golden fluid acrylics but they are way more
        expensive, but have wonderful colors you can't get anywhere else.
        Most of the time I just dilute the color with water until they are about
        the cfonsistency of 2% milk or a bit thinner. The blues tend to
        spread themost by theirselves. Each color is different so there is no
        set formula for mixing them, and one day they might work differently
        from another, so I always test them in a corner of the tank to see if
        they will "play"

        The cheapest thing to use for tanks for paper is the "photo frame"
        clear boxes for photos - I get them at Michaels here. You will go
        through a lot of frustrations and discoveries doing marbling, but
        that's how it goes. Just keep going.

        I use photo flo for all these and I get it from:
        http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195-
        REG/Kodak_1464510_Photo_Flo_200_Solution.html

        One bottle will last a long time - you dilute it quite a bit to use it.

        Also, as has been discussed quite a bit here lately, the main
        frustration now is the paper. Some papers work and some don't
        and right now I've had good luck with the cheaper sketch paper from
        Dick Blick or the white sulphite from
        http://www.colophonbookarts.com/ she is very helpful if you call her.

        As for classes, some are better than others. I just waited for 3
        months to take one because it was here and it was such a
        disappoint, I almost cried. She didn't bring any examples and had
        us working with wet sumi paper, which was like working with toilet
        paper because it doesn't have any size. She claimed she had been
        trained in it, but I had more experience than she did and just tried to
        keep my mouth shut and try things the way she did, but it was a
        disaster. The size was too thick and wouldn't wash off the paper, if
        you were even able to pick it up without tearing it, etc., etc.

        But hands on is still better than trying to figure it out yourself if
        possible. Good luck and hope some of this is some help to you.

        Sue Cole
        Fairbanks, AK
      • irisnevins
        True... the Blick Sulphite works like a charm. I get it at www.dickblick.com it has saved both my life and sanity. I wish they had
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 10, 2009
          True... the Blick Sulphite works like a charm. I get it at www.dickblick.com<http://www.dickblick.com/> it has saved both my life and sanity. I wish they had a 70 lb. weight though. I found a 70 from NASCO, and guess what... though called the same thing, it doesn't marble really well, it is the good old "acid-free" buffered junk again. Must be from a different mill. they claim acid free, I should have known. it was cheap though, and sometimes things could be acid free without the use of CC I guessed, so tried it. Oh well, lots of art paper for the grandkikds for the next decade! I may give it to the nursery school!

          I always liked that cheap acrylic. I use Ceram-Coat, but all those cheap acrylics are nice. Just be aware, not all colors in all brands work right. Also one batch to the next may be different. They do not tailor make paints to the marbling process, I think perhaps only myself and Colophon do, as far as paints for sale in the US, and we do watercolors, not acrylics. We use our own paint all the time so can trouble shoot well too, or tweak the mixes a bit where needed. Honestly, for paper, I find watercolor way more predictable and easier to use. Fabric is another story, you need it to be washable. Try the cheap stuff, it's like a dollar a bottle. It's on the thick side, but most is due to acrylic base, so I never diluted much. In fact the addition of more base as opposed to more pigment, can tame the nature of the pigments and make them more workable, oddly enough. It's something I discovered when I used to make acrylics. They are expensive though to make and a real pain, so I discontinued them, but did find the Ceram Coat and Folk Craft or something like that name, work really well. The best route is to find a good red, yellow, blue, black, white, that work and mix from them. You have fewer variables and less troubleshooting this way. Sometimes the pretty colors are not marbling friendly! In fact most pigment is not, and this is what any maker of true marbling paints learns rapidly and at great expense!

          Keep trying... I started 31 years ago in my kitchen, with next to no info out there. It took MONTHS to get a thing to float. And we used the dried whole seaweed, boiled, strained, it was rough!! then one day it worked and I never stopped!

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:51 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Need Help


          I would think Phoenix would be large enough you could contact one
          of the Universities and ask for bookbinding or marbling classes.
          Sometimes they offer them together.

          I've bought pretty much every book available on marbling there is
          and downloaded some of the internet.

          Also, there are two excellent dvd's on marbling, one by Peggy
          Skycraft which you can buy thorugh dharma trading at
          www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and one by Mimi Schleicher at her site.:
          http://www.marbling.com/<http://www.marbling.com/> both of these helped me a lot.

          Also, there are many marbling videos on www.youtube.com<http://www.youtube.com/> just put
          marbling or ebru in the search box. One of the best is by two
          australian women who use oil colors, but you can learn by watching
          them is:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILOfT1bs<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILOfT1bs>

          I have had very god luck with two cheaper brands of acrylics for both
          paper and silk scarves. I am in Fairbanks, AK so have to get a lot of
          things over the internet, but these two are Apple Barrel Brand in the
          crafts section at WalMart for $2.00 for an 8 oz bottle and Artworks
          Artist Quality Acrylics - also says ProArt on the bottle about halfway
          down for $7 a bottle from Ben Franklin.

          The paints I have had no luck with at all were the metallic ones - in
          any brand so far. The one I had the biggest frustration with was the
          carbon black from Golden - it "bleeds" of the paper almost every
          time.

          I started out with Golden fluid acrylics but they are way more
          expensive, but have wonderful colors you can't get anywhere else.
          Most of the time I just dilute the color with water until they are about
          the cfonsistency of 2% milk or a bit thinner. The blues tend to
          spread themost by theirselves. Each color is different so there is no
          set formula for mixing them, and one day they might work differently
          from another, so I always test them in a corner of the tank to see if
          they will "play"

          The cheapest thing to use for tanks for paper is the "photo frame"
          clear boxes for photos - I get them at Michaels here. You will go
          through a lot of frustrations and discoveries doing marbling, but
          that's how it goes. Just keep going.

          I use photo flo for all these and I get it from:
          http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195<http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195>-
          REG/Kodak_1464510_Photo_Flo_200_Solution.html

          One bottle will last a long time - you dilute it quite a bit to use it.

          Also, as has been discussed quite a bit here lately, the main
          frustration now is the paper. Some papers work and some don't
          and right now I've had good luck with the cheaper sketch paper from
          Dick Blick or the white sulphite from
          http://www.colophonbookarts.com/<http://www.colophonbookarts.com/> she is very helpful if you call her.

          As for classes, some are better than others. I just waited for 3
          months to take one because it was here and it was such a
          disappoint, I almost cried. She didn't bring any examples and had
          us working with wet sumi paper, which was like working with toilet
          paper because it doesn't have any size. She claimed she had been
          trained in it, but I had more experience than she did and just tried to
          keep my mouth shut and try things the way she did, but it was a
          disaster. The size was too thick and wouldn't wash off the paper, if
          you were even able to pick it up without tearing it, etc., etc.

          But hands on is still better than trying to figure it out yourself if
          possible. Good luck and hope some of this is some help to you.

          Sue Cole
          Fairbanks, AK



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • artsycole
          Diane Maurer even says she uses the chep acrylics and that they work for her. The main difference I have noticed is that the cheap ones will separate in the
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 10, 2009
            Diane Maurer even says she uses the chep acrylics and that they work for her. The main difference I have noticed is that the cheap ones will separate in the bottle after standing for awhile, while the Golden and the ProArt never separate. I DO use GAC 100 and 900 in the paint a lot of times when i am doing the silk and cotton.

            The only person I was able to take a REAL lesson with uses Academy student watercolors and supplies from Colophon. She uses Hurakaze paper from new York Central Art Supply - it isn't listed on the internet - I had to call them to get it, but it sreasonable and marbles well and you get good, bright colors with the watercolors and ox gall, which she used with them.
            Sue



            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
            >
            > True... the Blick Sulphite works like a charm. I get it at www.dickblick.com<http://www.dickblick.com/> it has saved both my life and sanity. I wish they had a 70 lb. weight though. I found a 70 from NASCO, and guess what... though called the same thing, it doesn't marble really well, it is the good old "acid-free" buffered junk again. Must be from a different mill. they claim acid free, I should have known. it was cheap though, and sometimes things could be acid free without the use of CC I guessed, so tried it. Oh well, lots of art paper for the grandkikds for the next decade! I may give it to the nursery school!
            >
            > I always liked that cheap acrylic. I use Ceram-Coat, but all those cheap acrylics are nice. Just be aware, not all colors in all brands work right. Also one batch to the next may be different. They do not tailor make paints to the marbling process, I think perhaps only myself and Colophon do, as far as paints for sale in the US, and we do watercolors, not acrylics. We use our own paint all the time so can trouble shoot well too, or tweak the mixes a bit where needed. Honestly, for paper, I find watercolor way more predictable and easier to use. Fabric is another story, you need it to be washable. Try the cheap stuff, it's like a dollar a bottle. It's on the thick side, but most is due to acrylic base, so I never diluted much. In fact the addition of more base as opposed to more pigment, can tame the nature of the pigments and make them more workable, oddly enough. It's something I discovered when I used to make acrylics. They are expensive though to make and a real pain, so I discontinued them, but did find the Ceram Coat and Folk Craft or something like that name, work really well. The best route is to find a good red, yellow, blue, black, white, that work and mix from them. You have fewer variables and less troubleshooting this way. Sometimes the pretty colors are not marbling friendly! In fact most pigment is not, and this is what any maker of true marbling paints learns rapidly and at great expense!
            >
            > Keep trying... I started 31 years ago in my kitchen, with next to no info out there. It took MONTHS to get a thing to float. And we used the dried whole seaweed, boiled, strained, it was rough!! then one day it worked and I never stopped!
            >
            > Iris Nevins
            > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            >
          • simonl332002
            I guess the thing to do, would be to try a couple of bottles of all, and see what works best. I have almost a couple of bottles of them already. What has
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 11, 2009
              I guess the thing to do, would be to try a couple of bottles of all, and see what works best. I have almost a couple of bottles of them already. What has worked the best so far is the Golden, of course ---one of the most expensive ones. I have ordered Mastering Marbling, with Peggy Skycraft.

              Mary




              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "artsycole" <akartisan@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Diane Maurer even says she uses the chep acrylics and that they work for her. The main difference I have noticed is that the cheap ones will separate in the bottle after standing for awhile, while the Golden and the ProArt never separate. I DO use GAC 100 and 900 in the paint a lot of times when i am doing the silk and cotton.
              >
              > The only person I was able to take a REAL lesson with uses Academy student watercolors and supplies from Colophon. She uses Hurakaze paper from new York Central Art Supply - it isn't listed on the internet - I had to call them to get it, but it sreasonable and marbles well and you get good, bright colors with the watercolors and ox gall, which she used with them.
              > Sue
              >
              >
              >
              >>
            • Roz Macken
              Bill, here s the link to the video to which I think you refer. See the 2nd link. Roz Macken, PA ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 31, 2012
                Bill, here's the link to the video to which I think you refer. See the 2nd
                link. Roz Macken, PA

                On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > I would think Phoenix would be large enough you could contact one
                > of the Universities and ask for bookbinding or marbling classes.
                > Sometimes they offer them together.
                >
                > I've bought pretty much every book available on marbling there is
                > and downloaded some of the internet.
                >
                > Also, there are two excellent dvd's on marbling, one by Peggy
                > Skycraft which you can buy thorugh dharma trading at
                > www.dharmatrading.**com and one by Mimi Schleicher at her site.:
                > http://www.marbling**.com/ <http://www.marbling.com/> both of these
                > helped me a lot.
                >
                > Also, there are many marbling videos on www.youtube.**com just put
                > marbling or ebru in the search box. One of the best is by two
                > australian women who use oil colors, but you can learn by watching
                > them is:
                > http://www.youtube.**com/watch?**v=54OILOfT1bs<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILOfT1bs>
                >
                > I have had very god luck with two cheaper brands of acrylics for both
                > paper and silk scarves. I am in Fairbanks, AK so have to get a lot of
                > things over the internet, but these two are Apple Barrel Brand in the
                > crafts section at WalMart for $2.00 for an 8 oz bottle and Artworks
                > Artist Quality Acrylics - also says ProArt on the bottle about halfway
                > down for $7 a bottle from Ben Franklin.
                >
                > The paints I have had no luck with at all were the metallic ones - in
                > any brand so far. The one I had the biggest frustration with was the
                > carbon black from Golden - it "bleeds" of the paper almost every
                > time.
                >
                > I started out with Golden fluid acrylics but they are way more
                > expensive, but have wonderful colors you can't get anywhere else.
                > Most of the time I just dilute the color with water until they are about
                > the cfonsistency of 2% milk or a bit thinner. The blues tend to
                > spread themost by theirselves. Each color is different so there is no
                > set formula for mixing them, and one day they might work differently
                > from another, so I always test them in a corner of the tank to see if
                > they will "play"
                >
                > The cheapest thing to use for tanks for paper is the "photo frame"
                > clear boxes for photos - I get them at Michaels here. You will go
                > through a lot of frustrations and discoveries doing marbling, but
                > that's how it goes. Just keep going.
                >
                > I use photo flo for all these and I get it from:
                > http://www.bhphotov**ideo.com/**c/product/**28195-<http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195->
                > REG/Kodak_1464510_**Photo_Flo_**200_Solution.**html
                >
                > One bottle will last a long time - you dilute it quite a bit to use it.
                >
                > Also, as has been discussed quite a bit here lately, the main
                > frustration now is the paper. Some papers work and some don't
                > and right now I've had good luck with the cheaper sketch paper from
                > Dick Blick or the white sulphite from
                > http://www.colophon**bookarts.**com/ <http://www.colophonbookarts.com/>she is very helpful if you call her.
                >
                > As for classes, some are better than others. I just waited for 3
                > months to take one because it was here and it was such a
                > disappoint, I almost cried. She didn't bring any examples and had
                > us working with wet sumi paper, which was like working with toilet
                > paper because it doesn't have any size. She claimed she had been
                > trained in it, but I had more experience than she did and just tried to
                > keep my mouth shut and try things the way she did, but it was a
                > disaster. The size was too thick and wouldn't wash off the paper, if
                > you were even able to pick it up without tearing it, etc., etc.
                >
                > But hands on is still better than trying to figure it out yourself if
                > possible. Good luck and hope some of this is some help to you.
                >
                > Sue Cole
                > Fairbanks, AK
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • www.anywhere-weddings.com
                I LOVE this video! I m so excited to be taking my first ever marbling class next week in Dayton, OH at Marco s Paper! I ll let you all know how it goes! Linda
                Message 7 of 27 , Jul 31, 2012
                  I LOVE this video!

                  I'm so excited to be taking my first ever marbling class next week in Dayton, OH at Marco's Paper! I'll let you all know how it goes!

                  Linda Stevenson
                • Nancy Akerly
                  If Pat Thomas is your teacher, you will have a terrific time. Seems everyone who learns from her is pleased. Have a great class! Sent from my iPad Liberty
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jul 31, 2012
                    If Pat Thomas is your teacher, you will have a terrific time. Seems everyone who learns from her is pleased. Have a great class!

                    Sent from my iPad
                    Liberty Grove Paper Arts
                    http://www.libertygrovepaperarts.com

                    On Jul 31, 2012, at 1:00 PM, "www.anywhere-weddings.com" <ktpup@...> wrote:

                    > I LOVE this video!
                    >
                    > I'm so excited to be taking my first ever marbling class next week in Dayton, OH at Marco's Paper! I'll let you all know how it goes!
                    >
                    > Linda Stevenson
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bill Colvard
                    Thanks Roz, That IS it! I can t tell you how I have searched in vain for that video. My hat is off to you. I have liked it on youtube and bookmarked the
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 4, 2012
                      Thanks Roz,

                      That IS it! I can't tell you how I have searched in vain for that
                      video. My hat is off to you. I have "liked" it on youtube and bookmarked
                      the link so maybe I won't lose it again. I'm going now to rewatch it and
                      try to see what kind of oil inks they use. They don't say but you can
                      see the tubes in the video.

                      Thanks again!
                      Bill Colvard
                    • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                      Bill, as terminology is a subject of foremost interest for me (we need to make sure that we mean the same thing when we use the same word or confusion will be
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 5, 2012
                        Bill,

                        as terminology is a subject of foremost interest for me (we need to make sure that we mean the same thing when we use the same word or confusion will be even bigger as it is now): there is no such thing as oil inks. Either it's oil, or it's inks. Inks are aquaeous. So it's oil paints, or either inks. Precision is very helpful.

                        German differentiates even further: Tinte (without a binder, ink) and Tusche (with a binder, Indian ink).

                        Susanne Krause
                      • Bill Colvard
                        as terminology is a subject of foremost interest for me (we need to make sure that we mean the same thing when we use the same word or confusion will be even
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 5, 2012
                          as terminology is a subject of foremost interest for me (we need to make
                          sure that we mean the same thing when we use the same word or confusion
                          will be even bigger as it is now): there is no such thing as oil inks.
                          Either it's oil, or it's inks. Inks are aquaeous. So it's oil paints, or
                          either inks. Precision is very helpful.

                          Susanne,

                          I admit I know very little about oils and nothing about ink but the
                          ladies in the video, (Georgie Sharp and Melva Waterman) definitely say
                          that they use "oil-based inks because they're brighter." I have watched
                          closely but I can't see the brand.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILOfT1bs&feature=g

                          I again thank the people on this list who helped reconnect me to this
                          video and these great marblers.

                          I found at least one source for oil based inks

                          http://www.dickblick.com/products/speedball-oil-base-block-printing-inks/?clickTracking=true

                          So I am confused now. Why can inks not be oil based? And what are these
                          things being sold as oil-based inks? And most importantly, what are
                          these great ladies using? Because I want to try it.

                          Bill Colvard
                        • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                          Bill, when you want to try marbling with oil based paints, just do it. What works for others doesn t necessarily work for you anyway (and vice versa), everyone
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 7, 2012
                            Bill,

                            when you want to try marbling with oil based paints, just do it. What works for others doesn't necessarily work for you anyway (and vice versa), everyone needs to make their own experience. There are so many parameters to marbling, paints are only one of them and the manufacturer of paints just another. There is no universal-one-fits-for-all paint.

                            That oil based paints are usually brighter does not depend on a certain brand.

                            Susanne Krause
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.