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Re: [Marbling] Re: Ebru and the suffix "-zen"

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  • hayrettin YANGOZ
           Öncelikle herkese selamlar; Jake araştırma yapmana çok sevindim. ebrucu terimi seninde belirttiğin gibi son 50 yıldır kullanılan yeni
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 8 1:52 PM
             Öncelikle herkese selamlar;

      Jake araştırma yapmana çok sevindim. ebrucu terimi seninde belirttiğin gibi son 50 yıldır kullanılan yeni Türkçe içinde kullanılan bir terimdir. aslı cetvelkeş ten mulhem ebrikeş yada bestekar ( müzik eserleri besteleyen kişi) dan mülhem ebrikar olası gerekir. Ebru kelimesinin aslı farsça olup kaş manasındadır. bizim sanatımızın ismi ise ebru değil ebridir. buda farsça bulut, bulutumsu manası taşır. fakat daha doğru olan terim çağatay turkçesi ile ebre ( roba, elbise yüzü, yada astarı veya kürk kabı (kürkleri korumak için yapılan renkli hareli kumaştan torba) ) doğru bir terminoloji oluşturmak için tarihsel araştırmaların yanında dilbilimcilerden de yardım almak gerekir. rus arkeologlar hazar denizinin güney doğusunda 1992-2001 yılları arasında  yaptıkları kazılarda, yaklaşık olarak MÖ 2200 - MÖ 2500 yıllarına tarihlenen ebrulanmış kumazş parçaları bulmuşlardır. netice olarak ebru
      kağıttan önce kumaş üzerine de uygulanmış olabilir. buda terminolojiye, başka bir açıdan yaklaşmamızı icab ettirebilir.
      netice olarak şu an için cetvelkeş ten mülhem, ebrukeş yada bestekardan mülhem ebrukar daha uygun gibi görünmektedir. bu konuda raştırma yapan arkadaşlar bilgilerini paylaşırlarsa daha kısa sürede yol katedebileceğimizi düşünüyorum.


                                                                                              saygılarımla
                                                                                              Hayrettin YANGOZ



      --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Jake Benson <jemiljan@...> wrote:
      From: Jake Benson <jemiljan@...>
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Ebru and the suffix "-zen"
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 4:31 AM

      I agree with Hayrettin Bey, who to summarize his post in Turkish, stated
      that the suffix "-zen" was used for musicians, not visual artists.
      The
      suffix is the shortened form of the Persian word زننده
      "zanandeh", an active participle meaning "striking, playing, or
      player".
      The word is derived from the root زدن zadan, meaning "to beat,
      strike, or hit". The suffix "-zan" is primarily used in Persian
      from
      someone playing musical instruments, and is never used for a visual
      artist. So, the fact that this suffix is so employed today, especially
      by those who emphasize a more mystical view of marbling history, is
      rather odd, as historically that particular suffix would never have
      actually been employed for that purpose.

      In contrast, the verb for marbling found in historical Persian texts is
      کشیدن kasheedan, meaning "to draw", but also "to
      pull" or "to
      drag" (oddly enough, it's also the verb used for "smoking"
      in Persian;
      it's akin to the way we say taking a "drag" from a cigarette in
      English). The active participle form is کشنده keshandeh, the
      shortened form of which is the suffix "-kash". While I have never
      seen
      this suffix used with reference to marbling, it is routinely used for
      the artists who drew marginalia in manuscripts, known as جدول
      کش jadval-kash (plural جدول کشان
      jadval-kashân, pronounced "cedval-keş" and
      "cedval-keşân"
      in Turkish voice). So theoretically speaking, abrî-kash/
      abrî-kashân ("ebrî-keş", "ebrî-keşân" in
      Turkish voice) would be a more appropriate term to use than
      "abri-zan"
      or "ebruzen". Another suffix is "-saz", from the verb
      سختن
      sakhtan, meaning "to make" or "to create". A bookbinder is
      sometimes
      called a جلد سز jeld-saz (plural جلد سزان
      jeld-sazân ) , though the term صحاف sahhâf is generally
      the preferred term for a bookbinder in Iran today.

      Finally, I have never observed the terms "ebrucu" or
      "ebrici" in any
      historical text, nor the contemporary term "ebru" along with it. The
      only term that is used is abri/ebri ابری, never ebru, nor is
      there any special term found referring to the maker of it. So I think
      that both must be more recent colloquial usages from the last 200 years,
      associated with only the Özbekler Tekke tradition in Istanbul, but
      nowhere else. So while ebrucu may have been the term favored by
      Necmeddin Okyay in the 20th century as mentioned by Hayrettin Bey, in no
      way implies that it was an exclusive term that may have been commonly
      used throughout western, central, and south Asia where marbled papers
      were made. The makers may have also been called "abri-kash" or even
      "abri-saz". the other possibility is that they had no special name
      as
      marbling was just one activity that a marginalia artist like a
      jadval-kash, or a bookbinder, or even a stationer (varrâq) may have
      engaged in.

      Jake Benson

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, hayrettin YANGOZ <hayrettinyangoz@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Öncelikle herkese selamlar,
      > "zen " takısı farsça bir kelime olup, manası çalan
      demektir. buradaki çalan lelimesi, herhangi bir müzik
      enstrumanını çalan yada üfleyen manasına
      kullanılır. neyzen, davulzen, boruzen gibi.
      > ebru sanatı için eskiden beri, ebrucu yada ebrici deyimi
      kullanıldığı, rahmetli hocamız Necmeddin OKYAY
      tarafından belirtilmiştir. ebru sanatı ile iştigal
      eden sanatkara ebrucu denmesi en doğru telaffuzdur. Ebru bir
      sanattır, ama müzikal bir sanat değildir. bir yanlış
      yapılmışsa bunu düzeltmekte gerekir.
      > saygılarımla
      > hayrettin YANGOZ
      >
      > --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Feridun Ozgoren feridun.ozgoren@... wrote:
      > From: Feridun Ozgoren feridun.ozgoren@...
      > Subject: RE: [Marbling] Ebru and Zen
      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 10:52 PM
      >
      > "......There is a tendency locally to tie Sufism with Ebru...."
      > Do we know any written source to justify this tendency?
      > I don't know any and I would appreciate very much if anybody provides
      one.
      > If Semazen, Neyzen, Griftzen, etc. is accepted and used in Turkish,
      why not
      > ebruzen, what seems to be the problem?
      >
      > Feridun Özgören
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf
      > Of Oguzhan
      > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 3:21 PM
      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Marbling] Ebru and Zen
      >
      > It would be nice to spice things up,
      > doing Zen whilst marbling.
      > (might as well Feng Shui the studio )
      >
      > (probably it is being done and I do not know of it)
      >
      > There is a tendency locally to tie Sufism with Ebru,
      >
      > or other related mystical paraphernalia.
      >
      > Therapheutical aspects are already being abused.
      >
      > After Ebru reached its local popularity , the terms related to its
      maker
      > have also made progress.
      >
      > Ebrucu with the suffix 'cu' means marbler,ebru maker.
      >
      > As 'yogurtcu' means 'yoghurt maker'.
      >
      > But some people started using 'Ebruzen' to mean the same.
      >
      > (snobs are global common commodity)
      >
      > The suffix 'zen' is an import to Turkish language.
      >
      > 'Semazen' means one who dance sema (whirling dervishes)
      >
      > 'Neyzen' means one who play the ney (reed instrument).
      >
      > But our esteemed elders
      > like Prof.Ugur Derman who wrote the (almost)first book on Ebru ,says
      that
      > the 'cu' suffix is the valid one.
      >
      > Ebru and Zen can be ,
      >
      > but not Ebruzen.
      >
      > For your information.
      >
      > cordially,
      > Oz
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >



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