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Re: question about alum-ing

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  • Sue Cole
    Content-type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary= Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658 --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658 a couple of notes on this. First of all, make sure you
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 27, 2009
      Content-type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658"

      --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658
      a couple of notes on this. First of all, make sure you are wearing latex or nitril gloves
      to protect you hands against the drying effects of the alum while you are doing this
      process.

      I have gone to my printer and gotten some test sheets to try. If you have some
      printers there, you might try that. The 65 pound vellum finish paper he had worked
      really well.

      these are some of my notes to myself on this:
      Dharma Trading says to use 3 tbsp per quart of water. � cup = 8 tbsp.
      Different manufacturers have different directions for the alum.
      1 tablespoon per cup of hot water or for large batches for fabric, � cup (4
      tablespoons) per gallon of water. Can be as much as � cup per maker of the
      alum.

      I put the alum on the paper with a 4� soft sponge paint roller, like Sue
      Zajac showed me. I put the alum water in a pie plate and the paper in a
      cookie sheet or on a piece of plexiglass, then lay it aside to dry. Then I
      put it all in a plastic 2 gallon ziploc storage bag with all the alumned
      sides up, like in the Peggy Skycraft dvd. This used the least amount of
      alum and was quick to do. I have used the papers for as long as a month
      afterwards from the bag and they worked fine.

      I have also had good luck with 70# Strathmore kids drawing paper sold
      in the box stores here - I believe this is the same paper sold by Colophon
      and dick Blick and comes in 12 x 18" or 9 x 12"

      These are some of the papers I have used so far:

      Paper: The whole first batch of paper I did, I only marked the back side,
      not what kind of paper it was, then wasted a lot of time trying to figure
      out what it was, so now I am labeling all of them as to what they are and
      the weight if I know it.

      Codes:
      65v = 65# vellum finish printing paper 20s = 70# sulphite (sold
      for 20cents/sheet)
      spr = Spectra rough side sps = Spectra Smooth
      side
      cmt = Canson Mi Tientes 70sd = 70# Strathmore
      Drawing paper
      28cc = 28# color copy K = Kraft paper on rolls (white or black)
      (has faint lines on one side)
      SK = Strathmore Kids Drawing Paper P = photo copy paper
      N = Nasco colored paper F= Fadeless colored
      paper

      Note: Nasco paper is 50# and is colored on both sides and is cheaper.
      Nasco paper comes from http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J)

      Fadeless is white on one side and colored on the other side. Fadeless is
      available from Dick Blick

      The 70# sulphite came from Colophon Book Arts

      New York Central Art Supply 1-800-950-6111 carries Harukaze paper -
      This paper works really well, but does not stand for rough hadling. I
      couldn't find it on their internet site, so had to call them on the phone to
      order it. It is relatively inexpensive (don't remember the price at the
      moment)

      Another good one is Strathmore Charcoal Paper, but for some reason it
      is getting harder to find locally in the art stores here.

      Hope this is of some help to you.



      --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658
      <?xml version="1.0" ?><html>
      <head>
      <title></title>
      </head>
      <body>
      <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">a couple of notes on this.  First of all, make sure you are wearing latex or nitril gloves
      to protect you hands against the drying effects of the alum while you are doing this
      process.</span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">I have gone to my printer and gotten some test sheets to try.  If you have some
      printers there, you might try that.  The 65 pound vellum finish paper he had worked
      really well.</span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">these are some of my notes to myself on this:</span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Dharma Trading says to use 3 tbsp per quart of water. ¼ cup = 8 tbsp.
      Different manufacturers have different directions for the alum.</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt">1 tablespoon per cup of hot water or for large batches for fabric, ¼ cup (4
      tablespoons) per gallon of water.  Can be as much as ½ cup per maker of the
      alum.  </span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>I put the alum on the paper with a 4” soft sponge paint roller, like Sue
      Zajac showed me.  I put the alum water in a pie plate and the paper in a
      cookie sheet or on a piece of plexiglass, then lay it aside to dry.  Then I
      put it all in a plastic 2 gallon ziploc storage bag with all the alumned
      sides up, like in the Peggy Skycraft dvd.  This used the least amount of
      alum and was quick to do.  I have used the papers for as long as a month
      afterwards from the bag and they worked fine.</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>I have also had good luck with 70# Strathmore kids drawing paper sold
      in the box stores here - I believe this is the same paper sold by Colophon
      and dick Blick and comes in 12 x 18" or 9 x 12"</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>These are some of the papers I have used so far:</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b><u>Paper:  </u></b><b>The whole first batch of paper I did, I only marked the back
      side,
      not what kind of paper it was, then wasted a lot of time trying to figure
      out what it was, so now I am labeling all of them as to what they are and
      the weight if I know it.</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Codes:</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>65v = 65# vellum finish printing paper                  20s 
      = 70# sulphite (sold
      for 20cents/sheet)</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>spr =  Spectra rough side                                         sps 
      = Spectra Smooth
      side</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>cmt = Canson Mi Tientes                                        70sd
      = 70# Strathmore
      Drawing paper</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>28cc = 28# color copy           K
      = Kraft paper on rolls (white or black)
      (has faint lines on one side)</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>SK   =  Strathmore Kids Drawing Paper               P
      = photo copy paper</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>N = Nasco colored paper                                          F=
      Fadeless colored
      paper</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Note: Nasco paper is 50# and is colored on both sides and is cheaper.
      Nasco paper comes from </b></span></font><a href="http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
      <b><u>http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J</u></b></font></a><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
      <b>)</b></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Fadeless is white on one side and colored on the other side.  Fadeless is
      available from Dick Blick</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>The 70# sulphite came from Colophon Book Arts</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/></div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>New York Central Art Supply  1-800-950-6111 carries Harukaze paper  -
      This paper works really well, but does not stand for rough hadling.  I
      couldn't find it on their internet site, so had to call them on the phone to
      order it.  It is relatively inexpensive (don't remember the price at the
      moment)</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Another good one is Strathmore Charcoal Paper, but for some reason it
      is getting harder to find locally in the art stores here.</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/>
      </div>
      <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Hope this is of some help to you.</b></span></font></div>
      <div align="left"><br/></div>
      <div align="left"></div>
      </body>
      </html>

      --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658--
    • irisnevins
      Hi Thanks.... if I could find a nice 70lb, possibly 65 offset vellum in 25 X 38 (cut to 19 X 25) that worked I d be real happy. My distributor for the
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 27, 2009
        Hi Thanks.... if I could find a nice 70lb, possibly 65 offset vellum in 25 X 38 (cut to 19 X 25) that worked I'd be real happy. My distributor for the commercial type papers says they threw out ALL their acidic papers and went 100% acid free. That incluede all their offset vellums. I tried numerous samples before crying hysterically...nothing worked. And the thought of all that good paper being trashed.

        Alum... some papers you can use very little, most I use 1 TBS per cup water. I use the same for a pint for fabric, I use acrylics for that though.

        I used to use Strathmore Charcoal, but need a paper I can buy in bulk, a few thousand at a time preferably. I never found the charcoal paper that way, and vaguely recall calling them ages ago to see if I could get it and they said no.

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:59 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] Re: question about alum-ing


        Content-type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658"

        --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658
        a couple of notes on this. First of all, make sure you are wearing latex or nitril gloves
        to protect you hands against the drying effects of the alum while you are doing this
        process.

        I have gone to my printer and gotten some test sheets to try. If you have some
        printers there, you might try that. The 65 pound vellum finish paper he had worked
        really well.

        these are some of my notes to myself on this:
        Dharma Trading says to use 3 tbsp per quart of water. ¼ cup = 8 tbsp.
        Different manufacturers have different directions for the alum.
        1 tablespoon per cup of hot water or for large batches for fabric, ¼ cup (4
        tablespoons) per gallon of water. Can be as much as ½ cup per maker of the
        alum.

        I put the alum on the paper with a 4" soft sponge paint roller, like Sue
        Zajac showed me. I put the alum water in a pie plate and the paper in a
        cookie sheet or on a piece of plexiglass, then lay it aside to dry. Then I
        put it all in a plastic 2 gallon ziploc storage bag with all the alumned
        sides up, like in the Peggy Skycraft dvd. This used the least amount of
        alum and was quick to do. I have used the papers for as long as a month
        afterwards from the bag and they worked fine.

        I have also had good luck with 70# Strathmore kids drawing paper sold
        in the box stores here - I believe this is the same paper sold by Colophon
        and dick Blick and comes in 12 x 18" or 9 x 12"

        These are some of the papers I have used so far:

        Paper: The whole first batch of paper I did, I only marked the back side,
        not what kind of paper it was, then wasted a lot of time trying to figure
        out what it was, so now I am labeling all of them as to what they are and
        the weight if I know it.

        Codes:
        65v = 65# vellum finish printing paper 20s = 70# sulphite (sold
        for 20cents/sheet)
        spr = Spectra rough side sps = Spectra Smooth
        side
        cmt = Canson Mi Tientes 70sd = 70# Strathmore
        Drawing paper
        28cc = 28# color copy K = Kraft paper on rolls (white or black)
        (has faint lines on one side)
        SK = Strathmore Kids Drawing Paper P = photo copy paper
        N = Nasco colored paper F= Fadeless colored
        paper

        Note: Nasco paper is 50# and is colored on both sides and is cheaper.
        Nasco paper comes from http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J<http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J>)

        Fadeless is white on one side and colored on the other side. Fadeless is
        available from Dick Blick

        The 70# sulphite came from Colophon Book Arts

        New York Central Art Supply 1-800-950-6111 carries Harukaze paper -
        This paper works really well, but does not stand for rough hadling. I
        couldn't find it on their internet site, so had to call them on the phone to
        order it. It is relatively inexpensive (don't remember the price at the
        moment)

        Another good one is Strathmore Charcoal Paper, but for some reason it
        is getting harder to find locally in the art stores here.

        Hope this is of some help to you.



        --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658
        <?xml version="1.0" ?><html>
        <head>
        <title></title>
        </head>
        <body>
        <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">a couple of notes on this.  First of all, make sure you are wearing latex or nitril gloves
        to protect you hands against the drying effects of the alum while you are doing this
        process.</span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">I have gone to my printer and gotten some test sheets to try.  If you have some
        printers there, you might try that.  The 65 pound vellum finish paper he had worked
        really well.</span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">these are some of my notes to myself on this:</span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Dharma Trading says to use 3 tbsp per quart of water. ¼ cup = 8 tbsp.
        Different manufacturers have different directions for the alum.</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt">1 tablespoon per cup of hot water or for large batches for fabric, ¼ cup (4
        tablespoons) per gallon of water.  Can be as much as ½ cup per maker of the
        alum.  </span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>I put the alum on the paper with a 4” soft sponge paint roller, like Sue
        Zajac showed me.  I put the alum water in a pie plate and the paper in a
        cookie sheet or on a piece of plexiglass, then lay it aside to dry.  Then I
        put it all in a plastic 2 gallon ziploc storage bag with all the alumned
        sides up, like in the Peggy Skycraft dvd.  This used the least amount of
        alum and was quick to do.  I have used the papers for as long as a month
        afterwards from the bag and they worked fine.</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>I have also had good luck with 70# Strathmore kids drawing paper sold
        in the box stores here - I believe this is the same paper sold by Colophon
        and dick Blick and comes in 12 x 18" or 9 x 12"</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>These are some of the papers I have used so far:</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b><u>Paper:  </u></b><b>The whole first batch of paper I did, I only marked the back
        side,
        not what kind of paper it was, then wasted a lot of time trying to figure
        out what it was, so now I am labeling all of them as to what they are and
        the weight if I know it.</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Codes:</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>65v = 65# vellum finish printing paper                  20s 
        = 70# sulphite (sold
        for 20cents/sheet)</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>spr =  Spectra rough side                                         sps 
        = Spectra Smooth
        side</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>cmt = Canson Mi Tientes                                        70sd
        = 70# Strathmore
        Drawing paper</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>28cc = 28# color copy           K
        = Kraft paper on rolls (white or black)
        (has faint lines on one side)</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>SK   =  Strathmore Kids Drawing Paper               P
        = photo copy paper</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>N = Nasco colored paper                                          F=
        Fadeless colored
        paper</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Note: Nasco paper is 50# and is colored on both sides and is cheaper.
        Nasco paper comes from </b></span></font><a href="http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J"><font<http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J"><font> face="Times New Roman" size="3">
        <b><u>http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J</u></b></font></a><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
        <b>)</b></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Fadeless is white on one side and colored on the other side.  Fadeless is
        available from Dick Blick</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>The 70# sulphite came from Colophon Book Arts</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/></div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>New York Central Art Supply  1-800-950-6111 carries Harukaze paper  -
        This paper works really well, but does not stand for rough hadling.  I
        couldn't find it on their internet site, so had to call them on the phone to
        order it.  It is relatively inexpensive (don't remember the price at the
        moment)</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Another good one is Strathmore Charcoal Paper, but for some reason it
        is getting harder to find locally in the art stores here.</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/>
        </div>
        <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Hope this is of some help to you.</b></span></font></div>
        <div align="left"><br/></div>
        <div align="left"></div>
        </body>
        </html>

        --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658--


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Drees, Dedree
        Thanks so much. You are all wonderful. I am still using squirreled away papers and I almost gave away a bunch thinking they were bad-acid papers because they
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 27, 2009
          Thanks so much. You are all wonderful. I am still using squirreled away papers and I almost gave away a bunch thinking they were bad-acid papers because they were from the seventies. i shall have to get a new supply soon however.

          Dedree


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com on behalf of irisnevins
          Sent: Fri 2/27/2009 4:14 PM
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: question about alum-ing

          Hi Thanks.... if I could find a nice 70lb, possibly 65 offset vellum in 25 X 38 (cut to 19 X 25) that worked I'd be real happy. My distributor for the commercial type papers says they threw out ALL their acidic papers and went 100% acid free. That incluede all their offset vellums. I tried numerous samples before crying hysterically...nothing worked. And the thought of all that good paper being trashed.

          Alum... some papers you can use very little, most I use 1 TBS per cup water. I use the same for a pint for fabric, I use acrylics for that though.

          I used to use Strathmore Charcoal, but need a paper I can buy in bulk, a few thousand at a time preferably. I never found the charcoal paper that way, and vaguely recall calling them ages ago to see if I could get it and they said no.

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 3:59 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] Re: question about alum-ing


          Content-type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658"

          --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658
          a couple of notes on this. First of all, make sure you are wearing latex or nitril gloves
          to protect you hands against the drying effects of the alum while you are doing this
          process.

          I have gone to my printer and gotten some test sheets to try. If you have some
          printers there, you might try that. The 65 pound vellum finish paper he had worked
          really well.

          these are some of my notes to myself on this:
          Dharma Trading says to use 3 tbsp per quart of water. ¼ cup = 8 tbsp.
          Different manufacturers have different directions for the alum.
          1 tablespoon per cup of hot water or for large batches for fabric, ¼ cup (4
          tablespoons) per gallon of water. Can be as much as ½ cup per maker of the
          alum.

          I put the alum on the paper with a 4" soft sponge paint roller, like Sue
          Zajac showed me. I put the alum water in a pie plate and the paper in a
          cookie sheet or on a piece of plexiglass, then lay it aside to dry. Then I
          put it all in a plastic 2 gallon ziploc storage bag with all the alumned
          sides up, like in the Peggy Skycraft dvd. This used the least amount of
          alum and was quick to do. I have used the papers for as long as a month
          afterwards from the bag and they worked fine.

          I have also had good luck with 70# Strathmore kids drawing paper sold
          in the box stores here - I believe this is the same paper sold by Colophon
          and dick Blick and comes in 12 x 18" or 9 x 12"

          These are some of the papers I have used so far:

          Paper: The whole first batch of paper I did, I only marked the back side,
          not what kind of paper it was, then wasted a lot of time trying to figure
          out what it was, so now I am labeling all of them as to what they are and
          the weight if I know it.

          Codes:
          65v = 65# vellum finish printing paper 20s = 70# sulphite (sold
          for 20cents/sheet)
          spr = Spectra rough side sps = Spectra Smooth
          side
          cmt = Canson Mi Tientes 70sd = 70# Strathmore
          Drawing paper
          28cc = 28# color copy K = Kraft paper on rolls (white or black)
          (has faint lines on one side)
          SK = Strathmore Kids Drawing Paper P = photo copy paper
          N = Nasco colored paper F= Fadeless colored
          paper

          Note: Nasco paper is 50# and is colored on both sides and is cheaper.
          Nasco paper comes from http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J<http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J>)

          Fadeless is white on one side and colored on the other side. Fadeless is
          available from Dick Blick

          The 70# sulphite came from Colophon Book Arts

          New York Central Art Supply 1-800-950-6111 carries Harukaze paper -
          This paper works really well, but does not stand for rough hadling. I
          couldn't find it on their internet site, so had to call them on the phone to
          order it. It is relatively inexpensive (don't remember the price at the
          moment)

          Another good one is Strathmore Charcoal Paper, but for some reason it
          is getting harder to find locally in the art stores here.

          Hope this is of some help to you.



          --Alt-Boundary-7259.86602658
          <?xml version="1.0" ?><html>
          <head>
          <title></title>
          </head>
          <body>
          <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">a couple of notes on this.  First of all, make sure you are wearing latex or nitril gloves
          to protect you hands against the drying effects of the alum while you are doing this
          process.</span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">I have gone to my printer and gotten some test sheets to try.  If you have some
          printers there, you might try that.  The 65 pound vellum finish paper he had worked
          really well.</span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">these are some of my notes to myself on this:</span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Dharma Trading says to use 3 tbsp per quart of water. ¼ cup = 8 tbsp.
          Different manufacturers have different directions for the alum.</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt">1 tablespoon per cup of hot water or for large batches for fabric, ¼ cup (4
          tablespoons) per gallon of water.  Can be as much as ½ cup per maker of the
          alum.  </span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>I put the alum on the paper with a 4” soft sponge paint roller, like Sue
          Zajac showed me.  I put the alum water in a pie plate and the paper in a
          cookie sheet or on a piece of plexiglass, then lay it aside to dry.  Then I
          put it all in a plastic 2 gallon ziploc storage bag with all the alumned
          sides up, like in the Peggy Skycraft dvd.  This used the least amount of
          alum and was quick to do.  I have used the papers for as long as a month
          afterwards from the bag and they worked fine.</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>I have also had good luck with 70# Strathmore kids drawing paper sold
          in the box stores here - I believe this is the same paper sold by Colophon
          and dick Blick and comes in 12 x 18" or 9 x 12"</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>These are some of the papers I have used so far:</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b><u>Paper:  </u></b><b>The whole first batch of paper I did, I only marked the back
          side,
          not what kind of paper it was, then wasted a lot of time trying to figure
          out what it was, so now I am labeling all of them as to what they are and
          the weight if I know it.</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Codes:</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>65v = 65# vellum finish printing paper                  20s 
          = 70# sulphite (sold
          for 20cents/sheet)</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>spr =  Spectra rough side                                         sps 
          = Spectra Smooth
          side</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>cmt = Canson Mi Tientes                                        70sd
          = 70# Strathmore
          Drawing paper</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>28cc = 28# color copy           K
          = Kraft paper on rolls (white or black)
          (has faint lines on one side)</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>SK   =  Strathmore Kids Drawing Paper               P
          = photo copy paper</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>N = Nasco colored paper                                          F=
          Fadeless colored
          paper</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Note: Nasco paper is 50# and is colored on both sides and is cheaper.
          Nasco paper comes from </b></span></font><a href="http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J"><font<http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J"><font> face="Times New Roman" size="3">
          <b><u>http://www.enasco.com/product/9710405(J</u></b></font></a><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
          <b>)</b></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Fadeless is white on one side and colored on the other side.  Fadeless is
          available from Dick Blick</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>The 70# sulphite came from Colophon Book Arts</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/></div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>New York Central Art Supply  1-800-950-6111 carries Harukaze paper  -
          This paper works really well, but does not stand for rough hadling.  I
          couldn't find it on their internet site, so had to call them on the phone to
          order it.  It is relatively inexpensive (don't remember the price at the
          moment)</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Another good one is Strathmore Charcoal Paper, but for some reason it
          is getting harder to find locally in the art stores here.</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/>
          </div>
          <div align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12pt"><b>Hope this is of some help to you.</b></span></font></div>
          <div align="left"><br/></div>
          <div align="left"></div>
          </body>
          </html>

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        • Sue Cole
          Sorry about all the wierdness in my message. I believe it sa because I copied and pasted those parts from a Microsoft Word document, so it came out here as
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 28, 2009
            Sorry about all the wierdness in my message. I believe it'sa because I copied and
            pasted those parts from a Microsoft Word document, so it came out here as HTML
            coding.

            At any rate, I have had really good luck with some of the cheaper papers, like the
            Nasco colored paper and the "Kraft" paper that is sold in rolls iin Michaels in the
            wrapping section. Nasco is the colored paper they use in schools for bulletin boards,
            and the sulphite paper would be the Strathmore kids drawing paper available from
            places like Dick Blicks and the Canson MI Tientes has been working really well for
            me. It's heavier, so "lays" a little differently - I get mine from www.cheapjoes.com I
            buy it in full sheets and cut them down because it's cheaper that way.

            I experiment a lot, so have also had good luck with the heavier white construction
            paper that you find in the art section of MIchaels, not the kind in the kids section.

            The Hurakaze paper from New York Art Supply is very nice also. When I said it was
            tender, I meant that I had carried my samples around and showed them to too many
            people when I was first doing this and some of the edges tore from taking them in
            and out of the package, but that would happen with anything.

            Iris, have you tried the Texo Print that Galen Berry uses? He just got in a large stock
            by going directly to the factory and bringing back a large load of it. It has some latex
            in it, so flattens out easier.
            Sue
          • momo
            Hi Iris, DKM, Nancy Morains, et al; I marble to use the papers in bookbinding. In addition to the problems with CC buffering, papers that are too thin will
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 28, 2009
              Hi Iris, DKM, Nancy Morains, et al;

              I marble to use the papers in bookbinding. In addition to the problems
              with CC buffering, papers that are too thin will crumble once glue
              (PVA, animal glue, etc.), or anything used to attach paper to boards.
              Papers that are too heavy are hard to fold and attach to the boards.

              I have had great success with Rives from Blick. Canson is fine but
              folding it require patience and strength. The cost is a problem
              though, but if you buy a Blick membership at the local Blick store you
              get a discount, and twice a year they have a 50% off sale that helps
              with cost; keep in mind that in my area they are across CCAC which
              helps them have sales more often.

              I am lucky that my mother in law worked in a paper distribution outfit
              and gave me a huge roll of printer paper from years and years ago,
              which is a joy to work with. Unfortunately, I do not have much left.

              Here is a list of papers, if you can find them that have worked for
              me, for marbling then binding: Rives with the infinity watermark (it
              is cream not pure white), Ingres sulfite when Blick has it, Fabriano
              white and ivory, Strathmore (they no longer have the 130gms), 3M
              wrapping paper you find also at Blick in a roll. Pearl is also a
              great source for papers if there is one in your area.

              I purchased some "Masa" from Hollander recently, I will post how they
              turn out. I am also going to get some Rives and Ingres German from
              Bookmakers International in Maryland, link to the Rives (the
              watermarked one) and Ingres page,
              http://www.bookmakerscatalog.com/catalog/Papers/machinemade/textm.htm#Ingres,_German
              , if clicking does not work, copy and paste in your browser. I am
              ordering a few sheets of the Ingres to try, and will post my results.

              I make my own paper in the spring, I am still looking for an agent
              that will stop the sheets from crumbling when I alum them; I make
              artist book with them or covers in binding. I use Kozo, Abaca, and old
              white jeans when I can find it (thrift stores), I also use plant
              fibers from my own garden. I often get pulp kozo and abaca already
              beaten from Magnolia Papers (http://www.magnoliapaper.com) here in
              Oakland, they can beat to my specs in 5-gallon buckets (I pick it up),
              they ship but be aware of the shipping price if you consider them.
              [Still get your marbling supplies from Iris or Nancy Morains or Gallen
              Berry, I am not sure if Ms Maurer still sells supplies.] Making paper
              is a beautiful art, but you will need patience to get the sheets even
              and the right thickness. The large molds are expensive, unless you can
              find someone to make them for you. A good reference is Helen Hiebert
              "Papermaking with Plants", she has a pattern to make your molds and
              recipes for papermaking, great book and clear explanations on how to
              do things.

              One last thing for beginners, get the video Mastering Marbling with
              Peggy Skycraft (the best visual book I ever read), The Ultimate
              Marbling Handbook by Dianne K Maurer (must have for serious marblers),
              and the little manual "The Art of Marbling" by Galen Berry at
              http://marbleart.us/MarblingSupplies.htm scroll to the bottom of the
              page. There are other great marbling books but *these 3* must be in
              your library.

              For alum mordant: 1+1/4 cup of alum in 1 gallon of very hot distilled
              water works fine for me. Don't forget to put a cross or mark on one
              side of the paper before you alum. Also conditions in your studio will
              vary, experimenting and taking notes will help. If you need help, you
              can always come here to ask.

              sorry to be so long.
              momora

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:

              > Furthermore, when you marble and alum you put some acid back on the
              paper, don't panic, it's not going to make it crumble, it will likely
              well outlive you, and last nearly the same time, if not the same as so
              called archival paper. Also, in a way, alum is a preservative. Think
              about many old books where the pages crumbled, the cloth or leather
              crumbled but the marbled paper iside or on the cover is intact, and
              remains so for hundreds of years now.
              >
              > My last and upcoming articles for the Guild Of Bookworkers addresses
              this problem. An archival paper that uses a little CC buffering, to
              just raise it over PH7, usually will marble. My latest trusted paper,
              Natur Text by Hahnemuelle, it just stopped working, colors slid off. I
              had the distributor talk to them...they upped the CC to nearly PH9.
              Useless for marbling. Maybe it will work in a few years of sitting
              around, as I said it weakens.
              >
              > The only paper I trust now is the white sulphite drawing paper from
              Dick Blick. The 60lb. paper is 18 X 14, it's a bit easier to lay than
              the 80lb. I have another 70lb on order to test from another company. I
              prefer 70lb. but we'll see if it works. the Blick papers are cheap and
              hold the color beautifully and are thank Heavens not archival. A true
              bookbinder knows how to deacidifiy if they wish. If people flip out,
              I'll do it and charge extra. It's easy. Check them out online, order a
              small pack and see if it works for you, I would bet it will and your
              problems will be over. Mine sure are, this stuff works. Even a weak
              alum should work on them. I alum, dry, stack for a few days and
              marble. I HATE to alum as I go!

              > So off my soapbox now for the moment. If I have to get a Hollander
              beater and start a paper mill in my barn, I will. Most papers have
              been utterly ruined for marbling. Go get some Dick Blick sulphite
              drawing paper to test. If you prefer send me a #10 SASE, two stamps,
              I'll pack it, and I will snip some for you to try. My address is P.O.
              Box 429, Johnsonburg NJ 07846
              >
              > Iris
            • irisnevins
              thanks for the info....unfortunately many art papers are too expensive. I do not have a Blick nor anything near me, and honestly need to order in cartons of up
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 28, 2009
                thanks for the info....unfortunately many art papers are too expensive. I do not have a Blick nor anything near me, and honestly need to order in cartons of up to 2,000 at a time. For now, perhaps suphite is it. I didn't know there was an Ingres Sulphite, will look into it.

                Thanks
                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: momo<mailto:momora@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:14 PM
                Subject: [Marbling] Re: question about alum-ing


                Hi Iris, DKM, Nancy Morains, et al;

                I marble to use the papers in bookbinding. In addition to the problems
                with CC buffering, papers that are too thin will crumble once glue
                (PVA, animal glue, etc.), or anything used to attach paper to boards.
                Papers that are too heavy are hard to fold and attach to the boards.

                I have had great success with Rives from Blick. Canson is fine but
                folding it require patience and strength. The cost is a problem
                though, but if you buy a Blick membership at the local Blick store you
                get a discount, and twice a year they have a 50% off sale that helps
                with cost; keep in mind that in my area they are across CCAC which
                helps them have sales more often.

                I am lucky that my mother in law worked in a paper distribution outfit
                and gave me a huge roll of printer paper from years and years ago,
                which is a joy to work with. Unfortunately, I do not have much left.

                Here is a list of papers, if you can find them that have worked for
                me, for marbling then binding: Rives with the infinity watermark (it
                is cream not pure white), Ingres sulfite when Blick has it, Fabriano
                white and ivory, Strathmore (they no longer have the 130gms), 3M
                wrapping paper you find also at Blick in a roll. Pearl is also a
                great source for papers if there is one in your area.

                I purchased some "Masa" from Hollander recently, I will post how they
                turn out. I am also going to get some Rives and Ingres German from
                Bookmakers International in Maryland, link to the Rives (the
                watermarked one) and Ingres page,
                http://www.bookmakerscatalog.com/catalog/Papers/machinemade/textm.htm#Ingres,_German<http://www.bookmakerscatalog.com/catalog/Papers/machinemade/textm.htm#Ingres,_German>
                , if clicking does not work, copy and paste in your browser. I am
                ordering a few sheets of the Ingres to try, and will post my results.

                I make my own paper in the spring, I am still looking for an agent
                that will stop the sheets from crumbling when I alum them; I make
                artist book with them or covers in binding. I use Kozo, Abaca, and old
                white jeans when I can find it (thrift stores), I also use plant
                fibers from my own garden. I often get pulp kozo and abaca already
                beaten from Magnolia Papers (http://www.magnoliapaper.com<http://www.magnoliapaper.com/>) here in
                Oakland, they can beat to my specs in 5-gallon buckets (I pick it up),
                they ship but be aware of the shipping price if you consider them.
                [Still get your marbling supplies from Iris or Nancy Morains or Gallen
                Berry, I am not sure if Ms Maurer still sells supplies.] Making paper
                is a beautiful art, but you will need patience to get the sheets even
                and the right thickness. The large molds are expensive, unless you can
                find someone to make them for you. A good reference is Helen Hiebert
                "Papermaking with Plants", she has a pattern to make your molds and
                recipes for papermaking, great book and clear explanations on how to
                do things.

                One last thing for beginners, get the video Mastering Marbling with
                Peggy Skycraft (the best visual book I ever read), The Ultimate
                Marbling Handbook by Dianne K Maurer (must have for serious marblers),
                and the little manual "The Art of Marbling" by Galen Berry at
                http://marbleart.us/MarblingSupplies.htm<http://marbleart.us/MarblingSupplies.htm> scroll to the bottom of the
                page. There are other great marbling books but *these 3* must be in
                your library.

                For alum mordant: 1+1/4 cup of alum in 1 gallon of very hot distilled
                water works fine for me. Don't forget to put a cross or mark on one
                side of the paper before you alum. Also conditions in your studio will
                vary, experimenting and taking notes will help. If you need help, you
                can always come here to ask.

                sorry to be so long.
                momora

                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:

                > Furthermore, when you marble and alum you put some acid back on the
                paper, don't panic, it's not going to make it crumble, it will likely
                well outlive you, and last nearly the same time, if not the same as so
                called archival paper. Also, in a way, alum is a preservative. Think
                about many old books where the pages crumbled, the cloth or leather
                crumbled but the marbled paper iside or on the cover is intact, and
                remains so for hundreds of years now.
                >
                > My last and upcoming articles for the Guild Of Bookworkers addresses
                this problem. An archival paper that uses a little CC buffering, to
                just raise it over PH7, usually will marble. My latest trusted paper,
                Natur Text by Hahnemuelle, it just stopped working, colors slid off. I
                had the distributor talk to them...they upped the CC to nearly PH9.
                Useless for marbling. Maybe it will work in a few years of sitting
                around, as I said it weakens.
                >
                > The only paper I trust now is the white sulphite drawing paper from
                Dick Blick. The 60lb. paper is 18 X 14, it's a bit easier to lay than
                the 80lb. I have another 70lb on order to test from another company. I
                prefer 70lb. but we'll see if it works. the Blick papers are cheap and
                hold the color beautifully and are thank Heavens not archival. A true
                bookbinder knows how to deacidifiy if they wish. If people flip out,
                I'll do it and charge extra. It's easy. Check them out online, order a
                small pack and see if it works for you, I would bet it will and your
                problems will be over. Mine sure are, this stuff works. Even a weak
                alum should work on them. I alum, dry, stack for a few days and
                marble. I HATE to alum as I go!

                > So off my soapbox now for the moment. If I have to get a Hollander
                beater and start a paper mill in my barn, I will. Most papers have
                been utterly ruined for marbling. Go get some Dick Blick sulphite
                drawing paper to test. If you prefer send me a #10 SASE, two stamps,
                I'll pack it, and I will snip some for you to try. My address is P.O.
                Box 429, Johnsonburg NJ 07846
                >
                > Iris






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              • irisnevins
                Hi...yes the Kraft works well, but I have only found 50lb paper in rolls. Too light. For now will be content to marble on the Blick paper and keep marbling at
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 28, 2009
                  Hi...yes the Kraft works well, but I have only found 50lb paper in rolls. Too light. For now will be content to marble on the Blick paper and keep marbling at least! I have not tried Texo Print but will look into it. Wonder how it works with watercolor... Galen uses acrylic, should be similar, but I have found acrylic a bit more forgiving on the papers they stick to. I won't switch over, due to wanting a fairly accurate pre-1860s look. I do use for fabric now and then though.

                  Iris Nevins
                  www.marblingpaper.com<about:blank>
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:00 PM
                  Subject: [Marbling] Re: question about alum-ing


                  Sorry about all the wierdness in my message. I believe it'sa because I copied and
                  pasted those parts from a Microsoft Word document, so it came out here as HTML
                  coding.

                  At any rate, I have had really good luck with some of the cheaper papers, like the
                  Nasco colored paper and the "Kraft" paper that is sold in rolls iin Michaels in the
                  wrapping section. Nasco is the colored paper they use in schools for bulletin boards,
                  and the sulphite paper would be the Strathmore kids drawing paper available from
                  places like Dick Blicks and the Canson MI Tientes has been working really well for
                  me. It's heavier, so "lays" a little differently - I get mine from www.cheapjoes.com<http://www.cheapjoes.com/> I
                  buy it in full sheets and cut them down because it's cheaper that way.

                  I experiment a lot, so have also had good luck with the heavier white construction
                  paper that you find in the art section of MIchaels, not the kind in the kids section.

                  The Hurakaze paper from New York Art Supply is very nice also. When I said it was
                  tender, I meant that I had carried my samples around and showed them to too many
                  people when I was first doing this and some of the edges tore from taking them in
                  and out of the package, but that would happen with anything.

                  Iris, have you tried the Texo Print that Galen Berry uses? He just got in a large stock
                  by going directly to the factory and bringing back a large load of it. It has some latex
                  in it, so flattens out easier.
                  Sue


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