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Re: [Marbling] Re: Marbling on fabric

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  • Jan Walker
    ... Any tips on working with raw silk noil? I have seen some that looked really lovely but it wasn t any of the ones I did! The silk noil is very resistant
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 14, 2001
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      >
      >Happy to answer any questions - we worked on other fabrics besides cotton
      >this weekend - linen gives some additional nice texture, velveteen is fun
      >but very time consuming for preparation. we really enjoy experimenting with
      >fabrics. The lingerie fabric is interesting.....
      >
      >Linda in Tucson

      Any tips on working with raw silk noil? I have seen some that looked
      really lovely but it wasn't any of the ones I did! The silk noil is very
      resistant to wetting with anything. Should it be marbled while still
      pretty damp with the alum solution perhaps?

      Thanks,
      Jan
    • Laura Sims
      Dear Jan, Silk noil can be tricky. As a rule of thumb the less expensive the noil the more fabric sizing it has in it. The sizing will coat the fibers so that
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 15, 2001
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        Dear Jan,

        Silk noil can be tricky. As a rule of thumb the less expensive the noil the
        more fabric sizing it has in it. The sizing will coat the fibers so that
        they can not be penetrated easily. Better fabrics have little sizing and
        therefore a truer "hand", what you feel is what you get.

        In order to strip the sizing try this: 5 yards or less- Wash the fabric in
        HOT water/medium level with 1 Tbl. synthrapol (pure detergent from Dharma
        Trading or Pro Chemical and Dye) plus 1 Tbl. soda ash or sodium carbonate
        (washing soda). You can probably use a commercially available detergent with
        Arm and Hammer washing soda. Note: If you are washing more fabric double
        the recipe and raise the water level to high.
        Some fabrics will need washing more than once.
        Use PFD, prepared for dyeing, fabrics whenever possible. Though it is still
        recommended to wash them once with detergent they marble beautifully.

        Best, Laura
        Indigo Stone


        >From: Jan Walker <jwalker@...>
        >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        >To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Marbling on fabric
        >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:30:26 -0500
        >
        > >
        > >Happy to answer any questions - we worked on other fabrics besides cotton
        > >this weekend - linen gives some additional nice texture, velveteen is fun
        > >but very time consuming for preparation. we really enjoy experimenting
        >with
        > >fabrics. The lingerie fabric is interesting.....
        > >
        > >Linda in Tucson
        >
        >Any tips on working with raw silk noil? I have seen some that looked
        >really lovely but it wasn't any of the ones I did! The silk noil is very
        >resistant to wetting with anything. Should it be marbled while still
        >pretty damp with the alum solution perhaps?
        >
        >Thanks,
        >Jan
        >
        >
        >

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      • Jan Walker
        ... Yup, I did scour it first. Then soaked in alum solution and let it dry. When I did my test pieces, the color was mostly on the nubbles, not reaching
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 15, 2001
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          >
          >Silk noil can be tricky...
          >In order to strip the sizing try this: 5 yards or less- Wash the fabric in
          >HOT water/medium level with 1 Tbl. synthrapol (pure detergent from Dharma
          >Trading or Pro Chemical and Dye) plus 1 Tbl. soda ash or sodium carbonate
          >(washing soda).

          Yup, I did scour it first. Then soaked in alum solution and let it dry.
          When I did my test pieces, the color was mostly on the nubbles, not
          reaching uniformly down to the surface. So I wondered -- do it damp? leave
          it on longer? other things to try?

          Jan
        • Laura Sims
          You may want to wash it more than once or get another source for silk noil or use something like shantung silk. It has some texture and works better. Higher
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 15, 2001
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            You may want to wash it more than once or get another source for silk noil
            or use something like shantung silk. It has some texture and works better.
            Higher grade silk noil will cost more. I was buying from Thai Silks and
            decided it wasn't worth it. I didn't like the fabric enough to pay the
            extra. I use crepe de chine, charmeuse, shantung and occasionally thai silk
            (must be well ironed to marble evenly). Linens, silk/linen blends and
            rayons work well.

            Best, Laura



            >From: Jan Walker <jwalker@...>
            >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            >To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [Marbling] Marbling on silk noil
            >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:16:07 -0500
            >
            > >
            > >Silk noil can be tricky...
            > >In order to strip the sizing try this: 5 yards or less- Wash the fabric
            >in
            > >HOT water/medium level with 1 Tbl. synthrapol (pure detergent from Dharma
            > >Trading or Pro Chemical and Dye) plus 1 Tbl. soda ash or sodium carbonate
            > >(washing soda).
            >
            >Yup, I did scour it first. Then soaked in alum solution and let it dry.
            >When I did my test pieces, the color was mostly on the nubbles, not
            >reaching uniformly down to the surface. So I wondered -- do it damp? leave
            >it on longer? other things to try?
            >
            >Jan
            >
            >

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          • mbengoaduprey
            Hi, How many members do marbling exclusively on fabric? I would like to do a survey, just to share information about all these materials (sometimes one can go
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 28, 2009
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              Hi,

              How many members do marbling exclusively on fabric? I would like to do
              a survey, just to share information about all these materials (sometimes
              one can go crazy making a choice!!!).

              1. Which paints do you prefer? (Jacquard, Dr. PH Martin, etc.)

              2. Why?

              3. Do you use the same paints for cotton as for silk?

              4. What about surfactant ? Which one do you prefer?





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Casino Wolf
              I do paper marbling for bookbinding. But here are my answers: 1. Which paints do you prefer? (Jacquard, Dr. PH Martin, etc.) Dollar store acrylic paints. 2.
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 28, 2009
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                I do paper marbling for bookbinding. But here are my answers:

                1. Which paints do you prefer? (Jacquard, Dr. PH Martin, etc.)
                Dollar store acrylic paints.

                2. Why?
                Cheap.

                3. Do you use the same paints for cotton as for silk?
                Not applicable.

                4. What about surfactant ? Which one do you prefer?
                Palmolive dish soap (1 part soap, 19 parts water), the green variety.




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              • simonl332002
                ... mary ... Hi,
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 28, 2009
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                  >Hi, I have played around with paper and fabric and I think I prefer the fabric. I guess, mostly because I can do so much more with it, I am really new at this.

                  mary
                  >
                  >





                  Hi,
                  >
                  > How many members do marbling exclusively on fabric? I would like to do
                  > a survey, just to share information about all these materials (sometimes
                  > one can go crazy making a choice!!!).
                  >
                  > 1. Which paints do you prefer? (Jacquard, Dr. PH Martin, etc.)
                  >
                  > 2. Why?
                  >
                  > 3. Do you use the same paints for cotton as for silk?
                  >
                  > 4. What about surfactant ? Which one do you prefer?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Linda
                  I marble exclusively on fabric, using Utrecht paints. Used to use Ceramcoat, but had significant problems lately with pigments. Much happier with Utrecht - got
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 29, 2009
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                    I marble exclusively on fabric, using Utrecht paints. Used to use Ceramcoat,
                    but had significant problems lately with pigments. Much happier with Utrecht
                    - got the brightness back. Miss the range of colors from Ceramcoat, but at
                    least I can marble now - way more important! The change came as a result of
                    a class with Galen Berry - we had been having significant problems with
                    color, and so decided to get some professional help. Had success immediately
                    and we're off and running again. Galen mixes all his paints with ox gall, so
                    we buy them already prepared - extremely happy.

                    Regardless of the fabric (cotton, linen, silk, polyblends, faux-suede) use
                    the same paints - lots of different results and textures depending on the
                    fabrics.

                    As for surfactant, soda ash or sometimes nothing at all. When I dye fabric I
                    use a textile cleanser from Dharma - have had trouble with synthrapol over
                    the last few years, so don't use it any more.

                    Hope this is helpful!

                    Linda in Tucson
                    --
                    An Ancient Art Made Modern!
                    Marble-T Design
                    http://www.marbledfab.com
                    Blog: http://marbledmusings.blogspot.com
                  • karensilvers
                    I usually lurk here, but I thought I should answer this one. I marble only on fabric. I use procion-dyed and undyed (sometimes the dye-dogs and sometimes
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 29, 2009
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                      I usually lurk here, but I thought I should answer this one. I marble only on fabric. I use procion-dyed and undyed (sometimes the "dye-dogs and sometimes intentionally dyed for marbling) PFD (prepared for dyeing) fabrics.

                      -- I use different types of paint together because I like what happens when they "don't get along" -- the effects from that are interesting to me. I like Prochem's line because they don't require any "fiddling" but I get the best results with Golden liquid paints. Sometimes I use Jaquard Lumieres for shine, but they're not my favorites --they seem to have less pigment than the others and sometimes they glop. I have also tried Stewart Gill paints, which are fabulous, except that they are very very expensive -- not in my budget these days.

                      For surfactant, I have used the one that came in my tiny kit from Prochem that I purchased to try before I was totally sucked in by this marbling thing. I will be trying the GAC 900 from Golden this winter -- I restrict my marbling to the winter months when it's too cold to go outside and dye, so I'm gearing up for "the season."

                      I have used only cotton so far, but I would like to try some different fabrics -- rayon or silk.

                      I have also played around with inks and paints on shaving cream -- I found that it was ok (and fun) for my kids to do, but lacked the ability to do the amazing stuff that one can do with a tray full of Methylcel.

                      I'm getting ready to start a blog -- I will post here again when I have some results to show.

                      Karen in WI




                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > How many members do marbling exclusively on fabric? I would like to do
                      > a survey, just to share information about all these materials (sometimes
                      > one can go crazy making a choice!!!).
                      >
                      > 1. Which paints do you prefer? (Jacquard, Dr. PH Martin, etc.)
                      >
                      > 2. Why?
                      >
                      > 3. Do you use the same paints for cotton as for silk?
                      >
                      > 4. What about surfactant ? Which one do you prefer?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Laura Sims
                      Survey:   I marble on hand-dyed silk to make a living.  When I teach the students marble on just about anything but muslin and silk noil,  since the print
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 2, 2009
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                        Survey:   I marble on hand-dyed silk to make a living.  When I teach the students marble on just about anything but muslin and silk noil,  since the print results are too inconsistent as class materials.  I also tell students not to buy fabrics that are treated for perma-press or stain resistance.  Also, some cheap fabrics are filled with sizings that repel the alum. 

                        As a production marbler I have used Golden products for many years now.  The high pigment concentration, light fastness and the option of consistent line quality sold me. 
                        Golden's surfactant is Flow Release.  I mix it in different concentrations depending on the need. 

                        Some of the responses make me want to do some product R and D again with different paints and additives. 

                        Linda,  would you mind telling me what problems you had with synthrapol.  Also, did I understand correctly that you use soda ash for a surfactant?

                        Best,
                        Laura

                        --- On Sat, 8/29/09, Linda <marblers2008@...> wrote:

                        From: Linda <marblers2008@...>
                        Subject: [Marbling] Re:Marbling on fabric
                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 10:32 AM






                         





                        I marble exclusively on fabric, using Utrecht paints. Used to use Ceramcoat,

                        but had significant problems lately with pigments. Much happier with Utrecht

                        - got the brightness back. Miss the range of colors from Ceramcoat, but at

                        least I can marble now - way more important! The change came as a result of

                        a class with Galen Berry - we had been having significant problems with

                        color, and so decided to get some professional help. Had success immediately

                        and we're off and running again. Galen mixes all his paints with ox gall, so

                        we buy them already prepared - extremely happy.



                        Regardless of the fabric (cotton, linen, silk, polyblends, faux-suede) use

                        the same paints - lots of different results and textures depending on the

                        fabrics.



                        As for surfactant, soda ash or sometimes nothing at all. When I dye fabric I

                        use a textile cleanser from Dharma - have had trouble with synthrapol over

                        the last few years, so don't use it any more.



                        Hope this is helpful!



                        Linda in Tucson

                        --

                        An Ancient Art Made Modern!

                        Marble-T Design

                        http://www.marbledf ab.com

                        Blog: http://marbledmusin gs.blogspot. com































                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • marysmarbling
                        ... I m responding to the survey about fabric marbling. I marble on a variety of fabrics (cotton, silk, organza, polyester lace, polyesters, chiffon, satin
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 8, 2009
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                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "mbengoaduprey" <mbengoaduprey@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi,


                          I'm responding to the survey about fabric marbling. I marble on a variety of fabrics (cotton, silk, organza, polyester lace, polyesters, chiffon, satin etc.) I'm willing to experiment on lots of things. Some work well, some not at all.

                          I also marble on paper and wood.

                          > How many members do marbling exclusively on fabric? I would like to do
                          > a survey, just to share information about all these materials (sometimes
                          > one can go crazy making a choice!!!).
                          >
                          > 1. Which paints do you prefer? (Jacquard, Dr. PH Martin, etc.)
                          > Golden Fluid acrylics.

                          I've used Iris Nevins watercolor paints and Galen Berry's paint for paper.

                          > 2. Why?
                          Golden's pigments, ease of use

                          > 3. Do you use the same paints for cotton as for silk?
                          > Yes - I dye the natural fabrics. It seems to add a richness to the fabric.

                          > 4. What about surfactant ? Which one do you prefer?
                          > I use Photo-Flo or Golden's Flow Release
                          >
                          >Mary Holland
                          >
                        • Sue Cole
                          I ve marbled on silk, 100% cotton and muslin. I have also used pre- dyed permanent press fabric with no problems. Maybe I was just lucky. I prewash all of
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 9, 2009
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                            I've marbled on silk, 100% cotton and muslin. I have also used pre-
                            dyed permanent press fabric with no problems. Maybe I was just
                            lucky. I prewash all of them with Synthrapol and soak them in alum,
                            then iron them before. After marbling them, I rinse them by hand in
                            two different large buckets of cold water, then hang them for 24
                            hourse, put them through a rinse cycle in my washing machine with
                            cold water and a small amount of unscented fabric softener, then in
                            the dryer for a half hour , then iron them. I haven't had any trouble
                            with any fading after this process.

                            I use several different brands of paints, including Golden and use
                            Photo-flo or Golden acrylic flow release as a surfactant. I have had
                            good luck also with a cheaper brand that I have found here, but it
                            only comes in a few colors, so then youu mix them for other colors -
                            Artworks Artist Quality Acrylics by Pro Art. Their black works
                            especially well and they never separate in the bottles, like the
                            cheaper ones do. It's a bargain here at $8 for a $16 oz bottle. It's
                            probably cheaper in the states. Everytrhing is more here because of
                            the shipping charges.

                            Golden has the best range of colors, however the Golden color I
                            had the most trouble with was Carbon Black - it kept "bleeding" off
                            the paper even as it was being rinsed.

                            I talked to Galen Berry for quite awhile one time and he said he
                            considered Utrecht paints to be the best he's used.

                            HTH
                            Sue in
                            Alaska
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