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Re: rain water for marbling

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  • Jake Benson
    ... Hi Rita, I have used rainwater for mixing size, as at that time where I lived, the water was very hard; however, I don t recommend using it for paints.
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 27, 2008
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      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Rita" <rginger@...> wrote:

      > Can I use rain water ( after filtered it through a very
      > fine cloth) for mixing the paints and the carragennan?

      Hi Rita, I have used rainwater for mixing size, as at that time where
      I lived, the water was very hard; however, I don't recommend using it
      for paints. Distilled water is better for this purpose.

      > For how long can I keep mixed carragennan size
      > in a bottle before it would "go off"?

      Unless you use a preservative, it will not keep very long.
      Refrigerated, it will keep long, and I have been told that prepared
      size can be frozen for a longer period of time, though I have not done
      this myself.

      > and for how long can I keep alumed paper?

      It depends on the paper. I used to keep alumed paper for a long time,
      but now the papers with calcium carbonate buffer and filler must be
      used immediately.

      > p.s. Is there anyone in this group from Cape Town ( South Africa ) ?

      A woman named Glenda who lives in South Africa wrote to this group a
      couple of months ago.

      Speaking of South Africa, about 10 years ago, I saw a marvelous
      marbled ostrich egg from South Africa, but was never able to get a
      photograph of it. It was very vivid and I believe that it was done
      with an enamel or oil color process on water. Have you ever seen this
      kind of souvenir sold in any markets? I would love to find another
      example and learn more about who is doing this sort of work.

      What I saw was very similar to a kind of oil marbling that I saw in
      Egypt, which was used for decorating ceramic candlesticks and other
      items such as tabla drums for weddings. I was told these were
      produced in Qanatir el-Khayriyya, where a great number of ceramics are
      produced (Haytham, if you are listening, you might be interested to
      explore this further). I think that both of these Egyptian and South
      African modes are not very old, as they rely on modern paint formulas.

      Jake Benson
    • irisnevins
      The alum question is interesting. I can still keep alumed paper indefinitely, years even, but it has to have been line dried, exposed to air in a room 55%
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 27, 2008
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        The alum question is interesting. I can still keep alumed paper indefinitely, years even, but it has to have been line dried, exposed to air in a room 55% humidity or less. 50% is better. I have had the humidity rise in the room where the papers were stored, and they become weak, but if I just get the humidity down again, and I don't need to line dry again, a pile is fine for a day or two...then they work again. Very mysterious!

        Also the hard/soft water business, it is my experience you can adapt to just about any water for making carrageenan size. I was never taught I should not use hard water, and my water has always been extremely hard well water, and it works fine. I just need a little more size powder to get the same viscosity.

        So just experiment, don't drive yourself too crazy, try to adapt to your environment. It works a bit differently everywhere, so it really is hard to say it absolutely works one way or another.

        The paper problem with the calcium carbonate has been a marbler's nightmare. It has made most papers useless for marbling. I like the Hahnemuelle Natur Text best these days. It's a shame, the paper industry found they can shovel up to 50% of the CC into the mix because it is cheaper than wood pulp. It boils my blood that they act like they are doing a wonderful thing making everything so buffered when in reality they are saving tons money and up their profits. This info I have directly from someone who works in the CC industry and suppliers paper manufacturers. I'd love a good slightly acidic paper though, thank you. The old papers were so near neutral anyway, and you put a little acid back on with the marbling process as well. The industry has people so scared making them think there is either acidic or acid free, with the acid paper (which was always near neutral for good printing or art papers) crumbling in your hands in a year, or the buffered lasting 500 years. I have old "acidic" papers from 30 years back sitting in a sunny shop window for that long, with nothing crumbling to dust. These papers were Ph6, but the industry would have one think they are almost dangerous!

        OK... will get off the soapbox now.... it is difficult to find a good paper these days, where things used to be so simple.

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jake Benson<mailto:jemiljan@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:30 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] Re: rain water for marbling


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "Rita" <rginger@...> wrote:

        > Can I use rain water ( after filtered it through a very
        > fine cloth) for mixing the paints and the carragennan?

        Hi Rita, I have used rainwater for mixing size, as at that time where
        I lived, the water was very hard; however, I don't recommend using it
        for paints. Distilled water is better for this purpose.

        > For how long can I keep mixed carragennan size
        > in a bottle before it would "go off"?

        Unless you use a preservative, it will not keep very long.
        Refrigerated, it will keep long, and I have been told that prepared
        size can be frozen for a longer period of time, though I have not done
        this myself.

        > and for how long can I keep alumed paper?

        It depends on the paper. I used to keep alumed paper for a long time,
        but now the papers with calcium carbonate buffer and filler must be
        used immediately.

        > p.s. Is there anyone in this group from Cape Town ( South Africa ) ?

        A woman named Glenda who lives in South Africa wrote to this group a
        couple of months ago.

        Speaking of South Africa, about 10 years ago, I saw a marvelous
        marbled ostrich egg from South Africa, but was never able to get a
        photograph of it. It was very vivid and I believe that it was done
        with an enamel or oil color process on water. Have you ever seen this
        kind of souvenir sold in any markets? I would love to find another
        example and learn more about who is doing this sort of work.

        What I saw was very similar to a kind of oil marbling that I saw in
        Egypt, which was used for decorating ceramic candlesticks and other
        items such as tabla drums for weddings. I was told these were
        produced in Qanatir el-Khayriyya, where a great number of ceramics are
        produced (Haytham, if you are listening, you might be interested to
        explore this further). I think that both of these Egyptian and South
        African modes are not very old, as they rely on modern paint formulas.

        Jake Benson


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sue Cole
        how long the carageen will last depends on the temperature and the humidity. When it goes bad, it will smell and break down and become thin. I have read of
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 27, 2008
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          how long the carageen will last depends on the temperature and the humidity. When
          it goes bad, it will smell and break down and become thin. I have read of putting a
          teaspoon of bleach in it to prolong the life.
          Sue
        • irisnevins
          When I had an outside the home studio in town for a number of years, and not there all the time, I would make up the size Wednesdays and refrigerate as
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 28, 2008
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            When I had an outside the home studio in town for a number of years, and not there all the time, I would make up the size Wednesdays and refrigerate as concentrates (not adding the 2nd quart of water) and Monday morning would mix in the extra water, hot, and it was fine in about 20 minutes.

            When I moved to a bigger place and could work at home, I just started making up as much as I need in a day, no more. I found bleach made the lines a little fuzzy, as did borax. Also, I find few things more uninspiring than starting the next day on dirty size. I love when it is fresh and clean and perfect, at least to start out the day.

            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:04 AM
            Subject: [Marbling] Re:rain water for marbling


            how long the carageen will last depends on the temperature and the humidity. When
            it goes bad, it will smell and break down and become thin. I have read of putting a
            teaspoon of bleach in it to prolong the life.
            Sue

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rita
            Dear Nihande, Jake, Iris, and Sue, Thank you so much for all the useful and very interesting answers. These replies are very valuable and I hope other people
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 3, 2008
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              Dear Nihande, Jake, Iris, and Sue,

              Thank you so much for all the useful and very
              interesting answers.
              These replies are very valuable and I hope
              other people will find them useful too.

              Last week, I ran out of rain water, so
              I have tried the tap water to mix the carrageenan
              with and it worked.

              I've also tried the rainwater for mixing the
              paints ( acrylic ), but none of them worked, so I bought
              some distilled water and it did work.
              >
              to Jake : I have never seen here
              marbled ostrich egg myself, but I will keep my
              eyes open when I go to the craft markets again.

              Thanks again,
              All the best and Regards,
              Rita
            • nihandemiralay
              ... thank you.you re very kind.
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 3, 2008
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                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Rita" <rginger@...> wrote:
                >
                > Rita,
                thank you.you're very kind.
                > Dear Nihande, Jake, Iris, and Sue,
                >
                > Thank you so much for all the useful and very
                > interesting answers.
                > These replies are very valuable and I hope
                > other people will find them useful too.
                >
                > Last week, I ran out of rain water, so
                > I have tried the tap water to mix the carrageenan
                > with and it worked.
                >
                > I've also tried the rainwater for mixing the
                > paints ( acrylic ), but none of them worked, so I bought
                > some distilled water and it did work.
                > >
                > to Jake : I have never seen here
                > marbled ostrich egg myself, but I will keep my
                > eyes open when I go to the craft markets again.
                >
                > Thanks again,
                > All the best and Regards,
                > Rita
                >
              • David Maisterra
                Hi Rita: You can use rainwater for marbling, but I not recomend use rainwater that come from a zinc-plate made roof, or derivated from a plumber not recovered
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 4, 2008
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                  Hi Rita:
                  You can use rainwater for marbling, but I not recomend use rainwater that come from a zinc-plate made roof, or derivated from a plumber not recovered or painted from inside. Because the anionic ions of the metal "go off" very quickly the solution.

                  David Maisterra

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Rita
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:08 AM
                  Subject: [Marbling] rain water for marbling



                  Hello,

                  I'm a beginner at marbling, at new to this group
                  too.

                  Can I use rain water ( after filtered it through a very
                  fine cloth) for mixing the paints and the carragennan?

                  For how long can I keep mixed carragennan size
                  in a bottle before it would "go off"?
                  and for how long can I keeo alumed paper?

                  Thank you very much in advance for any reply.

                  Regards,
                  Rita

                  p.s. Is there anyone in this group from Cape Town
                  ( South Africa ) ?





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rita
                  Thanks David, I keep your advice in my mind before I use rain water. Regards, Rita ... that come from a zinc-plate made roof, or derivated from a plumber not
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 4, 2008
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                    Thanks David, I keep your advice in my mind
                    before I use rain water.
                    Regards, Rita



                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "David Maisterra" <contacto@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Rita:
                    > You can use rainwater for marbling, but I not recomend use rainwater
                    that come from a zinc-plate made roof, or derivated from a plumber not
                    recovered or painted from inside. Because the anionic ions of the
                    metal "go off" very quickly the solution.
                    >
                    > David Maisterra
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Rita
                    > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:08 AM
                    > Subject: [Marbling] rain water for marbling
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello,
                    >
                    > I'm a beginner at marbling, at new to this group
                    > too.
                    >
                    > Can I use rain water ( after filtered it through a very
                    > fine cloth) for mixing the paints and the carragennan?
                    >
                    > For how long can I keep mixed carragennan size
                    > in a bottle before it would "go off"?
                    > and for how long can I keeo alumed paper?
                    >
                    > Thank you very much in advance for any reply.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Rita
                    >
                    > p.s. Is there anyone in this group from Cape Town
                    > ( South Africa ) ?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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