Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Marbling] Pricing & Ethical Guideline

Expand Messages
  • John Goode
    Thanks Jake! I wont be needing a copy then. Perhaps Marbling was just a fad. With no guidelines, I will expecting a rash of thievings on the works for hire
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 14, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks Jake!
      I wont be needing a copy then.
      Perhaps Marbling was just a fad.
      With no guidelines, I will expecting a rash of thievings on the works for
      hire front or of orignals.
      ARTISTS BEWARE!
      Copyrighting is easy with documentation and organization.
      JG

      On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Jake Benson <jemiljan@...> wrote:

      > Hi everyone,
      >
      > I finally got my hands on a copy of the most recent edition of the
      > Handbook for Pricing and Ethical Guidelines from the Graphic Artists
      > guild. It's the 12th ed. published in 2007. There are no longer any
      > specific guidelines, nor any other mention of marbling that I can
      > find. I'm not sure what the reason would be for this, but I thought I
      > should you know that if you are looking for such standards, you'll
      > have to reply on the previous edition, the text of which I previously
      > posted. If anyone on this list is a professional graphic designer, I
      > would love to know of any other current references for reproducing
      > marbled or other decorative patterns that can be substituted.
      >
      > Jake Benson
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • irisnevins
      Hi Jake...I had written the original blurb for it way back.... can t remember when, very long ago. Don t remember if I got credited or not, but they asked me
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 15, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Jake...I had written the original blurb for it way back.... can't remember when, very long ago. Don't remember if I got credited or not, but they asked me to write it, which I did. I never bought the book, oddly enough. And they never offered one!

        I don't expect a rash of thievings though, but we all should still very much watch out for each other as we always have. I do not think it especially gives any message that marbling is now copyright free or anything, but it is annoying to not be considered a "graphic art" anymore by them.

        Copyright is given as a common law copyright just by the creation of a piece of art. You do need to be able to somehow prove you did it though. You can, as we got set up years ago, send a group of styles in for registration under one number. Color doesn't matter, color is not copyrightable, so a Bouquet sent in with orange and green suffices for all the Bouquet papers you make in any color theme. You can even send the styles in as greyscale and it covers any possible color you may use.

        I spoke about the problem at length to a copyright attorney decades ago, that it is impossible to copyright every sheet individually and send each in when you might make thousands per year, and he implemented a plan to do it by sample book or groups of styles, a nice man named Bruce Levy, to where we can send in for example a sample book of our work with one fee, and receive a registration number that covers everything we will ever do. This doesn't mean that one person owns bouquet or peacock etc. we can all do it, but each of our papers are our expression of that design, thus copyrightable. The patterns are public domain, no one gets to own a pattern, not allowing others to create their own artwork using it.

        Keep in mind too, the copyright office is extremely pro- artist. they have made it easier and easier over the years. You do not need to register any longer in order to collect legal fees, you do not even need to use the copyright symbol, you do not even need to sign the darned thing, and most of us who churn out book papers, our customers don't want us signing them, they want to chop them up and use them, every available inch. Still it is wise to at least stamp your work on the back and use the copyright symbol, if for no other reason than to make people contact you prior to using them in print somewhere. It doesn't stop everyone of course, but these things have a way of finding their way home, and I have made quite a few stinks over unauthorized use and gotten paid every time. I have also reported many marbles I see used on book covers, ads etc. to the people I know who did them, and this is what we need to do, be alert.

        Marbling comes and goes, fad like, like moon phases though lasting longer. I have worked in the field for over 30 years and believe me, there are some way low spots, when I wonder if I will ever get another order... other years, or even a decade, can be amazing, so busy I have had to hire help. So I don't know why they would have cut marbling from the book, but the big worry is they carry a lot of weight and people think them a big deal, and if they consider marbling so insignificant or a has-been, it's not good for us in general, it takes attention away from us who work at it, people listen to what others think is "in". Then again, we do have our own world and underworld, network of people who know we are here to stay, and it's pretty big and the internet has been the best thing ever for marbling and keeping it alive.

        Has anyone contacted them to ask why, Jake? I am too swamped with too much stuff now to deal with it, I am not even a member, and have no reason to join, maybe someone here who might be a member could ask and let us know? Feel free to use anything in this post if it might help.

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>


        Thanks Jake!
        I wont be needing a copy then.
        Perhaps Marbling was just a fad.
        With no guidelines, I will expecting a rash of thievings on the works for
        hire front or of orignals.
        ARTISTS BEWARE!
        Copyrighting is easy with documentation and organization.
        JG

        On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Jake Benson <jemiljan@...<mailto:jemiljan@...>> wrote:

        > Hi everyone,
        >
        > I finally got my hands on a copy of the most recent edition of the
        > Handbook for Pricing and Ethical Guidelines from the Graphic Artists
        > guild. It's the 12th ed. published in 2007. There are no longer any
        > specific guidelines, nor any other mention of marbling that I can
        > find. I'm not sure what the reason would be for this, but I thought I
        > should you know that if you are looking for such standards, you'll
        > have to reply on the previous edition, the text of which I previously
        > posted. If anyone on this list is a professional graphic designer, I
        > would love to know of any other current references for reproducing
        > marbled or other decorative patterns that can be substituted.
        >
        > Jake Benson
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jake Benson
        Thanks Iris, I have not contacted the GAG to inquire about the change, as I am also not a member. The text from the previous edition- which I recently posted
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 15, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks Iris,

          I have not contacted the GAG to inquire about the change, as I am also
          not a member. The text from the previous edition- which I recently
          posted to the group- was a complete revision of what had been
          published in the early 90's (I recall Mimi Shleicher's presentation at
          the 1992 IMG prompted me to look into it). Had you been consulted
          when those changes were made?

          In any case, I would assume that the standards for specific
          applications mentioned in the book can be used instead, whether it be
          a book illustration, dust jacket, or even a postage stamp.

          Jake
        • irisnevins
          hi... No they never contacted me, they just had me write the original blurb, they asked for I don t even know if they edited or changed anything, I sent it in
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 15, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            hi... No they never contacted me, they just had me write the original blurb, they asked for I don't even know if they edited or changed anything, I sent it in and never heard anything back, period.

            Iris NEvins
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jake Benson<mailto:jemiljan@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:40 PM
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: Pricing & Ethical Guideline


            Thanks Iris,

            I have not contacted the GAG to inquire about the change, as I am also
            not a member. The text from the previous edition- which I recently
            posted to the group- was a complete revision of what had been
            published in the early 90's (I recall Mimi Shleicher's presentation at
            the 1992 IMG prompted me to look into it). Had you been consulted
            when those changes were made?

            In any case, I would assume that the standards for specific
            applications mentioned in the book can be used instead, whether it be
            a book illustration, dust jacket, or even a postage stamp.

            Jake






            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.