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Re: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours

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  • irisnevins
    That is really tricky without knowing what the manufacturer puts in besides pure pigments. Also what is in the extender etc. Your best bet is to just
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 12 5:29 AM
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      That is really tricky without knowing what the manufacturer puts in besides pure pigments. Also what is in the extender etc. Your best bet is to just experiment until you find a way to make it work. If you need dispersant, Photo Flow is very good for acrylic. What size you are using will also make a difference.

      iris nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: kirkiridis<mailto:amafu@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:38 AM
      Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours


      Hi,
      I am new to the group and need some help- not with the colours but with
      an actual formulation of marbling paints.

      I live in South Africa and marbling paints for textiles - in fact ANY
      marbling paints - are unobtainable here. I need quantity so its
      pointless me importing itty bitty quantities when I have gallons of
      textile pigments and extender sitting in my storeroom.( I am a textile
      screenprinter in my other life) I just need a reliable formulation that
      will work with all the pigments.

      Any ideas?
      Glenda in South AFrica.




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    • Jake Benson
      Glenda, I agree with Iris. Acrylic media and formulas to make paint are not hard to come by, but you will have to experiment with the various formulas to find
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 13 8:18 AM
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        Glenda,

        I agree with Iris. Acrylic media and formulas to make paint are not
        hard to come by, but you will have to experiment with the various
        formulas to find what works for you, the particular size that you
        would be using, and the specific fabric you would be marbling I only
        recommend that you chose a medium that is fine, more fluid than thick
        gel medium. Kremer Pigmente makes such an acrylic "dispersion" called
        K-19 that I have used with good results. It comes in both matte and
        glossy formulations. They should be able to ship to South Africa, but
        you may find a Lascaux or Pebeo product off the shelf that you can use
        for the same purpose.

        Annie Sloan has written a few books on making paint for a variety of
        applications. Many general artist manuals also contain this info.

        Jake Benson


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "kirkiridis" <amafu@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        > I am new to the group and need some help- not with the colours but with
        > an actual formulation of marbling paints.
        >
        > I live in South Africa and marbling paints for textiles - in fact ANY
        > marbling paints - are unobtainable here. I need quantity so its
        > pointless me importing itty bitty quantities when I have gallons of
        > textile pigments and extender sitting in my storeroom.( I am a textile
        > screenprinter in my other life) I just need a reliable formulation that
        > will work with all the pigments.
        >
        > Any ideas?
        > Glenda in South AFrica.
        >
      • Sue Cole
        sometimes you just need to find the right size or gel to use with the paints also. If they are water soluble, then the carageen or gum tragacanth should work,
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 13 11:19 AM
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          sometimes you just need to find the right size or gel to use with the
          paints also. If they are water soluble, then the carageen or gum
          tragacanth should work, depending on what you can get over there.
          If they are oil based, you might be able to float them on water. You
          could also get something like GAC 900 from Golden paints to mix
          with all of them. Like Iris said, experiment with a small batch first.

          See if you can find out what the "base" of the dyes or the extender is
          and go from there.
          Sue
        • kirkiridis
          Thanks to everyone for their advice regarding formula for marbling inks. Regrettably, very few companies in the States or Europe will deal with anyone on the
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 15 7:19 AM
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            Thanks to everyone for their advice regarding formula for marbling inks.

            Regrettably, very few companies in the States or Europe will deal with
            anyone on the African continent as the bulk of companies consider us a
            bunch of scamsters looking to take them for every cent.Those of us who
            are not scamsters have to just live with it.

            I am also looking -eventually - for large quantities - not the odd
            kilo here or there.I can get CMC,carageenan & pigments by the truck
            load if I wanted them.The problem is finding a reliable formula to
            carry the pigments.For me, that will entail hiring a lab to work their
            way through 30 odd different extenders currently available here to find
            the right one.I dont know whether its worth the effort and expense.

            Regards,
            Glenda in South Africa
          • enidadams
            Glenda, sorry but there is no one easy formula or answer that always works for all people. Most marblers learn to adapt and make adjustments based on the type
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 21 8:03 AM
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              Glenda, sorry but there is no one easy formula or answer that always
              works for all people. Most marblers learn to adapt and make
              adjustments based on the type of size and colors, temperature and
              humidity. It may seem like a good idea to think ahead to needing large
              quantities, but why not try marbling with what you already have in
              large quantities or ready access to. The good news is, you will find
              many colors with different formulas can be made to "work" in different
              ways. You will find a very small amount of color can go a long way, so
              you may not need the large quantities that you think to get started.
              If you start with what you have and go from there, you will probably
              have a feel for which direction to go from there.

              The binders in textile pigments are more appropriate to fabrics than
              paper marbling colors, in that they have a softer hand and more
              flexibility. Their main difference from other acrylic colors, as you
              probably well know, is the heat setting requirement. You can get
              around this with an air cure catalyst and time, but on a surface other
              than fabric or paper I would recommend a sealer. For fabric colors on
              paper, I heat set them also. The baking sun of South Africa might do
              the job!

              Many of the colors you have on hand can probably be made to work, and
              you can intermix them to balance the ones that spread too much with the
              ones that spread too little. The main rule of thumb is that you are
              looking for a high pigment load with finely ground particles and
              relatively low viscosity. Since the colors need to be thinned to the
              consistency of cream, it's best not to start with a heavy bodied paint
              for screen printing that may have the same pigment load as an airbrush
              color or handpainting consistency, unless of course, the latter have so
              much dispersant they spread too much. If you have a ready source of
              aqueous dispersed pure pigments, combining these with ready-to-use
              paints can counteract the loss of intensity that occurs when thinning
              them. Second to that, professional grade tube acrylics can help boost
              pigment load. Don't expect lab people to test colors to the point that
              they perform to your standards, if you are an exacting marbler.

              Tube acrylics are very concentrated and have enough binder to hold when
              thinned without additional carrier. Professional grades have a higher
              pigment load than student grades, and are the better investment if
              shipping is a factor. If you looking for a binder to use with pure
              pigments on paper, try gum arabic.

              Good luck! Enid

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "kirkiridis" <amafu@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks to everyone for their advice regarding formula for marbling
              inks.
              I am also looking -eventually - for large quantities - not the odd
              kilo here or there. I can get CMC,carageenan & pigments by the truck
              load if I wanted them.The problem is finding a reliable formula to
              carry the pigments.For me, that will entail hiring a lab to work their
              way through 30 odd different extenders currently available here to find
              the right one.I dont know whether its worth the effort and expense.
              >
              > Regards,
              > Glenda in South Africa
              >
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