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Help with acrylic colours

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  • mycraftyideas
    Hi all, I am new to this group and to the art of marbling. I started a few months ago and am using sodium alginate as the marbling base as I am unable to buy
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 25, 2008
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      Hi all,

      I am new to this group and to the art of marbling. I started a few months ago and am using
      sodium alginate as the marbling base as I am unable to buy methyl cellulose locally. I am
      currently using acrylic colours with the marbling and they look rather pale/faded, though I
      can clearly see the designs. Is this to do with the paint itself, or could I do something to
      increase the intensity of the colours used? Even black looks like a lighter shade than it should
      be. What brand of acrylic colours do you all use?

      Thanks.

      Cheers,
      Hui Lian
    • John Goode
      Hello & Welcome CARRAGEENAN is the medium you should try for size. What kind of alum are you using? I tried sodium alginate on my first run, what a
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 25, 2008
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        Hello & Welcome
        CARRAGEENAN is the medium you should try for size.
        What kind of alum are you using?
        I tried sodium alginate on my first run, what a disapointment that was..
        Try carrageenan then get back to me here.
        What are you marbling? Paper? fiber?
        What brand of acrylic paints are you trying?
        Hang in there.
        John Goode

        On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:37 PM, mycraftyideas
        <mycraftyideas@...> wrote:
        > Hi all,
        >
        > I am new to this group and to the art of marbling. I started a few months
        > ago and am using
        > sodium alginate as the marbling base as I am unable to buy methyl cellulose
        > locally. I am
        > currently using acrylic colours with the marbling and they look rather
        > pale/faded, though I
        > can clearly see the designs. Is this to do with the paint itself, or could I
        > do something to
        > increase the intensity of the colours used? Even black looks like a lighter
        > shade than it should
        > be. What brand of acrylic colours do you all use?
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Hui Lian
        >
        >
      • Sue Cole
        where are you and can you order things through the internet? Sue
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 26, 2008
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          where are you and can you order things through the internet?
          Sue
        • irisnevins
          Hi Sue... I have a website at www.marblingpaper.com and there is a catalog page link. ... From: Sue
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 26, 2008
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            Hi Sue...

            I have a website at www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/> and there is a catalog page link.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:53 PM
            Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours


            where are you and can you order things through the internet?
            Sue


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • irisnevins
            Sorry,,, Sue and all... sometimes it looks like a private email request! Iris Nevins ... From: irisnevins To:
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 26, 2008
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              Sorry,,, Sue and all... sometimes it looks like a private email request!
              Iris Nevins
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: irisnevins<mailto:irisnevins@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours


              Hi Sue...

              I have a website at www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>> and there is a catalog page link.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...<mailto:akartisan@...>>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
              Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:53 PM
              Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours


              where are you and can you order things through the internet?
              Sue


              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              ------------------------------------

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gretchen vansant
              Hello! Here fellow etsian....  www.dharnatrading.com this  is where I find everything.....your shop looks great! ... From: Sue Cole
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 26, 2008
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                Hello! Here fellow etsian....  www.dharnatrading.com
                this  is where I find everything.....your shop looks great!

                --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:

                From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...>
                Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 10:53 AM






                where are you and can you order things through the internet?
                Sue















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • gretchen vansant
                Sorry,,,,mis spelled  www.dharmatrading.com ... From: gretchen vansant Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours To:
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 26, 2008
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                  Sorry,,,,mis spelled  www.dharmatrading.com

                  --- On Thu, 6/26/08, gretchen vansant <fine_artist2002@...> wrote:

                  From: gretchen vansant <fine_artist2002@...>
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 2:29 PM






                  Hello! Here fellow etsian....  www.dharnatrading. com
                  this  is where I find everything.. ...your shop looks great!

                  --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Sue Cole <akartisan@gci. net> wrote:

                  From: Sue Cole <akartisan@gci. net>
                  Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroup s.com
                  Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 10:53 AM

                  where are you and can you order things through the internet?
                  Sue

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sue Cole
                  apparently everyone misunderstood my message because I didn t copy and paste the other persons message that was having trouble. I was trying to find out where
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 27, 2008
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                    apparently everyone misunderstood my message because I didn't
                    copy and paste the other persons' message that was having trouble.
                    I was trying to find out where THEY were - my bad! But maybe
                    some of the sites you sent in will help them.

                    I have another question at the bottom of this.

                    I was trying to help this person:
                    Posted by: "mycraftyideas"
                    mycraftyideas@...
                    mycraftyideas
                    Wed Jun25,2008 6:37pm (PDT)
                    Hi all,

                    I am new to this group and to the art of marbling. I started a few
                    months ago and am using
                    sodium alginate as the marbling base as I am unable to buy methyl
                    cellulose locally. I am
                    currently using acrylic colours with the marbling and they look rather
                    pale/faded, though I
                    can clearly see the designs. Is this to do with the paint itself, or could
                    I do something to
                    increase the intensity of the colours used? Even black looks like a
                    lighter shade than it should
                    be. What brand of acrylic colours do you all use?

                    Thanks.

                    Cheers,
                    Hui Lian>>

                    I myself, have been having trouble with black. I have been using
                    Golden Fluid Carbon Black and while rinsing, it "bleeds" down the
                    paper, ruining the design. One time, in particular, I had made a free
                    form design which looked great until I rinsed it. The black had
                    apparently gotten pushed together into a spot in the middle, and
                    when I rinsed it, it ran down over the rest of the design. Was there
                    just too much paint, or does anyone have any other ideas?

                    I posted a photo of it under Akartisan's things, also one of my first
                    attempt at doing the spanish wave technique. I have a tremor, so a
                    lot of times that happens whether I want it to or not. The black
                    cooperated in this one. Maybe because it was a larger are in the
                    free form. It has done it on both MC and carageenan, so it must be
                    the black, and yes the paper was alumned first, then dried.
                    Thanks for any help,
                    Sue
                  • momo
                    Hi Sue, I have been experiencing the same problem with the Bone Black Golden Series 1. I did not have any problem with the previous tube of Bone Black. I am
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 30, 2008
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                      Hi Sue,

                      I have been experiencing the same problem with the Bone Black Golden
                      Series 1. I did not have any problem with the previous tube of Bone Black.

                      I am about to mix a new batch tomorrow, I will let you know. It did
                      ruin a few of my sheets yesterday and Friday.

                      I am going to make it heavier and see what happens. I will keep you
                      posted. The Crimson Red did the same thing, but I made it heavier and
                      it worked.

                      momora

                      >>>>>
                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:

                      > I myself, have been having trouble with black. I have been using
                      > Golden Fluid Carbon Black and while rinsing, it "bleeds" down the
                      > paper, ruining the design. One time, in particular, I had made a
                      free form design which looked great until I rinsed it. The black had
                      apparently gotten pushed together into a spot in the middle, and
                      when I rinsed it, it ran down over the rest of the design. Was there
                      just too much paint, or does anyone have any other ideas?
                      >
                      > Thanks for any help,
                      > Sue
                      >
                    • irisnevins
                      As a general rule when paints run, esp. from squeezed down veins, you need the thin the paint down, if it is to be used as a vein color. I always recommended
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 30, 2008
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                        As a general rule when paints run, esp. from squeezed down veins, you need the thin the paint down, if it is to be used as a vein color.

                        I always recommended doing a test "bullseye" to see how each color reacts. When you have a good spread balance, and it will never be 100% even and perfect, but good color and no sinking is the goal...you then use the colors always in the same order. a tight vein color will need to have more dispersant or more water added to make it not run, whether acrylics or watercolor.

                        That said, the large paint companies do not cater to marblers, they change the formulas more to suit painters who number way more than marblers. It is advisable to get paints made for marbling, but even then sometimes they are not well tested by experienced marblers. Your best bet is to buy from suppliers who are also serious marblers, and they too can advise you. I make and sell paint, but just watercolor, maybe someone like Galen Berry can advise you better on acrylic.

                        iris nevins
                        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: momo<mailto:momora@...>
                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 3:08 AM
                        Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours


                        Hi Sue,

                        I have been experiencing the same problem with the Bone Black Golden
                        Series 1. I did not have any problem with the previous tube of Bone Black.

                        I am about to mix a new batch tomorrow, I will let you know. It did
                        ruin a few of my sheets yesterday and Friday.

                        I am going to make it heavier and see what happens. I will keep you
                        posted. The Crimson Red did the same thing, but I made it heavier and
                        it worked.

                        momora

                        >>>>>
                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:

                        > I myself, have been having trouble with black. I have been using
                        > Golden Fluid Carbon Black and while rinsing, it "bleeds" down the
                        > paper, ruining the design. One time, in particular, I had made a
                        free form design which looked great until I rinsed it. The black had
                        apparently gotten pushed together into a spot in the middle, and
                        when I rinsed it, it ran down over the rest of the design. Was there
                        just too much paint, or does anyone have any other ideas?
                        >
                        > Thanks for any help,
                        > Sue
                        >



                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Stoffeez
                        Yes, Galen Berry is a fantastic source for acrylic paints for marbling....Check out his web page and email him, he will help you alot. In a message dated
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 30, 2008
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                          Yes, Galen Berry is a fantastic source for acrylic paints for marbling....Check out his web page and email him, he will help you alot.





                          In a message dated 06/30/08 05:25:27 Pacific Daylight Time, irisnevins@... writes:
                          As a general rule when paints run, esp. from squeezed down veins, you need the thin the paint down, if it is to be used as a vein color.

                          I always recommended doing a test "bullseye" to see how each color reacts. When you have a good spread balance, and it will never be 100% even and perfect, but good color and no sinking is the goal...you then use the colors always in the same order. a tight vein color will need to have more dispersant or more water added to make it not run, whether acrylics or watercolor.

                          That said, the large paint companies do not cater to marblers, they change the formulas more to suit painters who number way more than marblers. It is advisable to get paints made for marbling, but even then sometimes they are not well tested by experienced marblers. Your best bet is to buy from suppliers who are also serious marblers, and they too can advise you. I make and sell paint, but just watercolor, maybe someone like Galen Berry can advise you better on acrylic.

                          iris nevins
                          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: momo<mailto:momora@...>
                          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 3:08 AM
                          Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours

                          Hi Sue,

                          I have been experiencing the same problem with the Bone Black Golden
                          Series 1. I did not have any problem with the previous tube of Bone Black.

                          I am about to mix a new batch tomorrow, I will let you know. It did
                          ruin a few of my sheets yesterday and Friday.

                          I am going to make it heavier and see what happens. I will keep you
                          posted. The Crimson Red did the same thing, but I made it heavier and
                          it worked.

                          momora

                          >>>>>
                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:

                          > I myself, have been having trouble with black. I have been using
                          > Golden Fluid Carbon Black and while rinsing, it "bleeds" down the
                          > paper, ruining the design. One time, in particular, I had made a
                          free form design which looked great until I rinsed it. The black had
                          apparently gotten pushed together into a spot in the middle, and
                          when I rinsed it, it ran down over the rest of the design. Was there
                          just too much paint, or does anyone have any other ideas?
                          >
                          > Thanks for any help,
                          > Sue
                          >

                          ------------------------------------

                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • D or Jer Guffey
                          Regarding marbling with acrylics...the order in which you put down the colors can change their reactions. Sometimes a color which spreads, if put down first,
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 30, 2008
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                            Regarding marbling with acrylics...the order in which you put down the colors can change their reactions. Sometimes a color which spreads, if put down first, will sink if applied later after other colors have been put on the size. If you are having problems with colors, change the order of applying. Ideally all colors should float ever so nicely in nice round circles (or bull's-eyes if applying one color on top on another). Some colors are "chasers" in that they make the other colors move away, but if the "chaser" is applied first, then the other colors "behave" themselves. Unfortunately, there are no instructions but only experimentation and what works one day might not work the next. Marbling is not an exact science, although master marblers have much more control and consistency than the casual marbler.

                            d. guffey


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                          • Sue Cole
                            someone else suggested using Payne s Grey instead of black. I m going to try that next. One of the red s ran also. Must be something to do with the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 30, 2008
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                              someone else suggested using Payne's Grey instead of black. I'm
                              going to try that next. One of the red's ran also. Must be something
                              to do with the properties of the pigment, or possibly the type of
                              paper I was using, which was 65#.
                              Sue
                            • irisnevins
                              Keep in mind most US made papers are not working well for marbling these days, color washes off due to too much calcium carbonate in the pulp. They get to save
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 30, 2008
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                                Keep in mind most US made papers are not working well for marbling these days, color washes off due to too much calcium carbonate in the pulp. They get to save money by shoveling up to 50% CC in the mix, and call it acid free and charge more, but it's become nearly useless for most marbling.
                                Pigments and their properties should not cause run off by themselves. Many may be no good for marbling for one reason or another, mainly that they spread too much or are not compatible with other pigments. Try thinning down the runny colors to see if they work
                                better.

                                iris nevins
                                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
                                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:57 PM
                                Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours


                                someone else suggested using Payne's Grey instead of black. I'm
                                going to try that next. One of the red's ran also. Must be something
                                to do with the properties of the pigment, or possibly the type of
                                paper I was using, which was 65#.
                                Sue


                                ------------------------------------

                                Yahoo! Groups Links





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Sue Cole
                                thanks for the suggestions. I just ordered and received some airbrush colors from dharma Trading to see if they will work better because they have a finer
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                                  thanks for the suggestions. I just ordered and received some
                                  airbrush colors from dharma Trading to see if they will work better
                                  because they have a finer particle size. I will also try contacting
                                  Galen Berry.
                                  Sue
                                • momo
                                  I did promise I d share my results. The black is definitely running. I really cannot figure out why. In my attempt to get better results, I went extreme and
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 24, 2008
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                                    I did promise I'd share my results. The black is definitely running. I
                                    really cannot figure out why. In my attempt to get better results, I
                                    went extreme and washed all trays, tools in boiling hot distilled
                                    water. Then I cleaned all the paint mixing jars with boiling water to
                                    which I added a cup of white vinegar, rinsed the jars then boiled them
                                    in clean distilled water for 1 hour.

                                    After this treatment, all the paints worked except the black.

                                    At this point, I am going to try making the black a tad bit thicker,
                                    and will report the results by late this weekend. All my other
                                    solutions are the consistency of medium cream. (I say medium as in
                                    heavy cream mixed with 1/2+1/2, which is a consistency I am familiar
                                    with in cooking).

                                    I am going to try to put some of the last results in the photo section
                                    of this group. I was pleased with them.

                                    momora

                                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sue Cole <akartisan@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > someone else suggested using Payne's Grey instead of black. I'm
                                    > going to try that next. One of the red's ran also.
                                  • kirkiridis
                                    Hi, I am new to the group and need some help- not with the colours but with an actual formulation of marbling paints. I live in South Africa and marbling
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 11, 2008
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                                      Hi,
                                      I am new to the group and need some help- not with the colours but with
                                      an actual formulation of marbling paints.

                                      I live in South Africa and marbling paints for textiles - in fact ANY
                                      marbling paints - are unobtainable here. I need quantity so its
                                      pointless me importing itty bitty quantities when I have gallons of
                                      textile pigments and extender sitting in my storeroom.( I am a textile
                                      screenprinter in my other life) I just need a reliable formulation that
                                      will work with all the pigments.

                                      Any ideas?
                                      Glenda in South AFrica.
                                    • irisnevins
                                      That is really tricky without knowing what the manufacturer puts in besides pure pigments. Also what is in the extender etc. Your best bet is to just
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 12, 2008
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                                        That is really tricky without knowing what the manufacturer puts in besides pure pigments. Also what is in the extender etc. Your best bet is to just experiment until you find a way to make it work. If you need dispersant, Photo Flow is very good for acrylic. What size you are using will also make a difference.

                                        iris nevins
                                        www.marblingpaper.com
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: kirkiridis<mailto:amafu@...>
                                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:38 AM
                                        Subject: [Marbling] Re:Help with acrylic colours


                                        Hi,
                                        I am new to the group and need some help- not with the colours but with
                                        an actual formulation of marbling paints.

                                        I live in South Africa and marbling paints for textiles - in fact ANY
                                        marbling paints - are unobtainable here. I need quantity so its
                                        pointless me importing itty bitty quantities when I have gallons of
                                        textile pigments and extender sitting in my storeroom.( I am a textile
                                        screenprinter in my other life) I just need a reliable formulation that
                                        will work with all the pigments.

                                        Any ideas?
                                        Glenda in South AFrica.




                                        ------------------------------------

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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jake Benson
                                        Glenda, I agree with Iris. Acrylic media and formulas to make paint are not hard to come by, but you will have to experiment with the various formulas to find
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Aug 13, 2008
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                                          Glenda,

                                          I agree with Iris. Acrylic media and formulas to make paint are not
                                          hard to come by, but you will have to experiment with the various
                                          formulas to find what works for you, the particular size that you
                                          would be using, and the specific fabric you would be marbling I only
                                          recommend that you chose a medium that is fine, more fluid than thick
                                          gel medium. Kremer Pigmente makes such an acrylic "dispersion" called
                                          K-19 that I have used with good results. It comes in both matte and
                                          glossy formulations. They should be able to ship to South Africa, but
                                          you may find a Lascaux or Pebeo product off the shelf that you can use
                                          for the same purpose.

                                          Annie Sloan has written a few books on making paint for a variety of
                                          applications. Many general artist manuals also contain this info.

                                          Jake Benson


                                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "kirkiridis" <amafu@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi,
                                          > I am new to the group and need some help- not with the colours but with
                                          > an actual formulation of marbling paints.
                                          >
                                          > I live in South Africa and marbling paints for textiles - in fact ANY
                                          > marbling paints - are unobtainable here. I need quantity so its
                                          > pointless me importing itty bitty quantities when I have gallons of
                                          > textile pigments and extender sitting in my storeroom.( I am a textile
                                          > screenprinter in my other life) I just need a reliable formulation that
                                          > will work with all the pigments.
                                          >
                                          > Any ideas?
                                          > Glenda in South AFrica.
                                          >
                                        • Sue Cole
                                          sometimes you just need to find the right size or gel to use with the paints also. If they are water soluble, then the carageen or gum tragacanth should work,
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Aug 13, 2008
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                                            sometimes you just need to find the right size or gel to use with the
                                            paints also. If they are water soluble, then the carageen or gum
                                            tragacanth should work, depending on what you can get over there.
                                            If they are oil based, you might be able to float them on water. You
                                            could also get something like GAC 900 from Golden paints to mix
                                            with all of them. Like Iris said, experiment with a small batch first.

                                            See if you can find out what the "base" of the dyes or the extender is
                                            and go from there.
                                            Sue
                                          • kirkiridis
                                            Thanks to everyone for their advice regarding formula for marbling inks. Regrettably, very few companies in the States or Europe will deal with anyone on the
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Aug 15, 2008
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                                              Thanks to everyone for their advice regarding formula for marbling inks.

                                              Regrettably, very few companies in the States or Europe will deal with
                                              anyone on the African continent as the bulk of companies consider us a
                                              bunch of scamsters looking to take them for every cent.Those of us who
                                              are not scamsters have to just live with it.

                                              I am also looking -eventually - for large quantities - not the odd
                                              kilo here or there.I can get CMC,carageenan & pigments by the truck
                                              load if I wanted them.The problem is finding a reliable formula to
                                              carry the pigments.For me, that will entail hiring a lab to work their
                                              way through 30 odd different extenders currently available here to find
                                              the right one.I dont know whether its worth the effort and expense.

                                              Regards,
                                              Glenda in South Africa
                                            • enidadams
                                              Glenda, sorry but there is no one easy formula or answer that always works for all people. Most marblers learn to adapt and make adjustments based on the type
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Aug 21, 2008
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                                                Glenda, sorry but there is no one easy formula or answer that always
                                                works for all people. Most marblers learn to adapt and make
                                                adjustments based on the type of size and colors, temperature and
                                                humidity. It may seem like a good idea to think ahead to needing large
                                                quantities, but why not try marbling with what you already have in
                                                large quantities or ready access to. The good news is, you will find
                                                many colors with different formulas can be made to "work" in different
                                                ways. You will find a very small amount of color can go a long way, so
                                                you may not need the large quantities that you think to get started.
                                                If you start with what you have and go from there, you will probably
                                                have a feel for which direction to go from there.

                                                The binders in textile pigments are more appropriate to fabrics than
                                                paper marbling colors, in that they have a softer hand and more
                                                flexibility. Their main difference from other acrylic colors, as you
                                                probably well know, is the heat setting requirement. You can get
                                                around this with an air cure catalyst and time, but on a surface other
                                                than fabric or paper I would recommend a sealer. For fabric colors on
                                                paper, I heat set them also. The baking sun of South Africa might do
                                                the job!

                                                Many of the colors you have on hand can probably be made to work, and
                                                you can intermix them to balance the ones that spread too much with the
                                                ones that spread too little. The main rule of thumb is that you are
                                                looking for a high pigment load with finely ground particles and
                                                relatively low viscosity. Since the colors need to be thinned to the
                                                consistency of cream, it's best not to start with a heavy bodied paint
                                                for screen printing that may have the same pigment load as an airbrush
                                                color or handpainting consistency, unless of course, the latter have so
                                                much dispersant they spread too much. If you have a ready source of
                                                aqueous dispersed pure pigments, combining these with ready-to-use
                                                paints can counteract the loss of intensity that occurs when thinning
                                                them. Second to that, professional grade tube acrylics can help boost
                                                pigment load. Don't expect lab people to test colors to the point that
                                                they perform to your standards, if you are an exacting marbler.

                                                Tube acrylics are very concentrated and have enough binder to hold when
                                                thinned without additional carrier. Professional grades have a higher
                                                pigment load than student grades, and are the better investment if
                                                shipping is a factor. If you looking for a binder to use with pure
                                                pigments on paper, try gum arabic.

                                                Good luck! Enid

                                                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "kirkiridis" <amafu@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Thanks to everyone for their advice regarding formula for marbling
                                                inks.
                                                I am also looking -eventually - for large quantities - not the odd
                                                kilo here or there. I can get CMC,carageenan & pigments by the truck
                                                load if I wanted them.The problem is finding a reliable formula to
                                                carry the pigments.For me, that will entail hiring a lab to work their
                                                way through 30 odd different extenders currently available here to find
                                                the right one.I dont know whether its worth the effort and expense.
                                                >
                                                > Regards,
                                                > Glenda in South Africa
                                                >
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