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Re: [Marbling] Silhouette Paper

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  • Antonio Vélez Celemín
    On www.bnf.fr clic on: catalogues et biblioteque numerique. Then go to: Mandragore and there to: Recherche; then mark: Manuscrits, orientaux, clic on index
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 23 3:37 AM
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      On www.bnf.fr clic on: catalogues et biblioteque numerique. Then go to: Mandragore and there to: Recherche; then mark: Manuscrits, orientaux, clic on index and look for Arabe 169, Arabe 6076 and Arabe 6077 you can find there some silhouette papers and a lot of ottoman Ebru borders for miniature painting. Perhaps the resolution will be enough for your needs.

      Antonio
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: haytham kamal
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:05 AM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Silhouette Paper


      Thank you Antonio for this information, I would like to ask if you or anybody have photos of historical ottoman ebru works, because I need it in a thesis

      thank you

      ---------------------------------
      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • haytham kamal
      Dear Antonio, Again, useful information, god bless you Haytham. ... Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 23 5:15 AM
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        Dear Antonio,
        Again, useful information, god bless you

        Haytham.



        ---------------------------------
        Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jake Benson
        3zizi Hadratak Haytham! This long message was written by me to help expand upon the description that Antonio posted, with some added observations about
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 23 1:18 PM
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          '3zizi Hadratak Haytham!

          This long message was written by me to help expand upon the
          description that Antonio posted, with some added observations about
          "silhouette" papers.

          "Silhouette paper" as we call it in English, is one method of
          stenciling known by the terms "kaghez-i 'aksi" or "akkaseh" in
          Persian, which is spelled "akkase" in Modern Turkish. The word is
          derived from the Arabic word 'aks meaning "negative" "contrary"
          "opposite" or "contrast", and in this case can be interpreted to mean
          "reflection". Various Turkish sources (based on the writings of
          Mehmet Ali Kagitçi) have reported that the word means "white bowl",
          but this is erroneous as this latter word is spelled completely
          differently in Arabic script. Interestingly enough today in Iran,
          this term is commonly used to refer to photography, likely due to the
          process of using negative film.

          This term was used in India as well as Iran and Turkey, and is a very
          broadly used for all methods of stenciled designs. There are really 3
          different methods of stenciling found in Islamic decorative papers:

          1) Cut paper is placed on a paper and colors are finely sprinkled over
          top, and then the stencil is removed.

          2) Cut paper, leather, or even possible fabric is soaked in dye, and 2
          sheets of paper are pressed together as a sandwich around the stencil.

          3) Color is wiped or blotted through a cut paper stencil, in a
          "pochoir" method. The stencil which may or may not be reinforced in
          some manner.

          (Then there is the additional method of combining stencils with
          marbling!)

          In addition, it is very common to find the designs produced by all of
          these methods can be seen outlined in ink, color, or gold, or in some
          cases, even overpainted.

          The information that Antonio gave about using cut leather soaked with
          dye to produce such papers came from a description provided by the
          late Turkish bookbinder Emin Barin to Albert Haemmerle. There is no
          actual textual source for the method he described, and it is not known
          whether he actually reproduced such designs himself, as the production
          of such papers had clearly died out by that point in time. I think he
          was simply offering his thought based on his own observations. See
          Haemmerle's Buntpapier, page 37, footnote 5, and on page 38. That
          said, it was this particular form of "impressed" stencil are what can
          be found in European Alba Amicora of the late 16th-17th centuries. I
          am not aware that the other "sprinkled" and "pochoir" methods were
          collected by European travelers in these albums.

          Barin attributed the invention of this impressed paper to Central Asia
          and cited two manuscripts, but did not provide an actual reference or
          accession number. Whether these manuscripts were produced using the
          "impressed" or the "sprinkled" method remains to be determined. Many
          examples of the "sprinkled" method can be found n 15th century
          manuscripts, but I have yet to see any made through the "impressed"
          method from before the 16th century. I think that this "sprinkled"
          method is the oldest method. It appears to have been developed during
          the late Timurid dynasty in workshops in Central Asia, principally
          Herat, especially during the reign of Sultan Husayn al Bayqara. While
          there is no textual source describing the method, this can be observed
          in many manuscripts, especially safina or jung anthologies from the
          15th- 17th c. In Central Asia, Iran, and Turkey. I've yet to see one
          of Indian production.

          According to Yves Porter, the process is mentioned in a Persian text
          from India, entitled "Risala-ye Jeld Sazi". There is a problematic
          term for the material mentioned in a critical edition of the text-
          "kasanbi" or "kasambi". Porter thinks it may an Indian word for a
          kind of safflower-dyed starch cloth. See Porter's book Paintere,
          Paintings, and Books" pp 51-2. he also mentions that the term
          "kaghez-i 'Aksi" together with "Kaghez-i Abri" is mentioned in the
          Persian dictionary Me'at ul Istilah of Anand Ram Mokhles.

          The other methods of stenciling were created by sprinkling very fine
          drops of color over a cut paper stencil, and then in another different
          procedure, there appears to be a kind of tampon used to press color
          directly over the stencil, akin to the French method of "pochoir".
          This latter method seems to have further developed in India in the
          16th century, as a number of borders associated with the atelier of
          'Abdur Rahim Khan-e Khanan. These elaborate multi-colored borders are
          known as "'Aks-i Haft Rang " or "Seven Colored Stencil" designs. For
          more information, please see the appendix devoted to this subject in
          "Mughal Art and Patronage" by John Seyller.

          From my own observations, I think that in the first "impressed"
          method, two papers were pressed around the cut stencils. If you have
          the opportunity to view album amicora, you can see that there are
          reflecting designs. In some, the color "squished" out and the image
          is blurred, whereas in other cases, the impression is incomplete- and
          a range of impression in between.

          In addition, I also wonder if these really were executed using
          leather, as described by Barin. It depends on the kind of leather ,
          of course, but most would become to malleable and even expand or
          become stretchy when whetted, so they would not retain their original
          form after cutting. For this reason, I think that a thicker, sized
          paper may have been used, as it would not expand in the manner that
          leather does. The colors are always dyes, not pigments, and almost
          always seem to be a red dye, possibly kirmiz, madder, brasilwood, or
          lotur; a golden yellow dye possibly made from saffron or safflower;
          and a green dye that is may be made from copper verdigris. Of the top
          of my head, i have not seen blue used, likely from indigo used, but it
          may have been that a combination of indigo and yellow was used to make
          the green color.

          In connection with this discussion, I have often wondered how we have
          come to use the term"silhouette" for this "impressed" kind of
          stenciled paper. Haemmerle does not appear to use this term, but
          "schablonierens", a term meaning "stencils (If Susanne Krause is
          reading this, please feel free to add your own observations and
          correct me if I'm wrong). Just how we came to call this paper
          "silhouette" is a mystery. I had thought that Rosamond Loring used
          the term, but after checking, I found that she did not. So that makes
          me wonder if possibly Olga Hirsch was the first to employ this term.
          In any case, it is actually a very recent practice, and one that I
          think we should reconsider for several reasons. The term
          "silhouette" is a bit misleading, as the European and American
          traditions of cut paper silhouettes is very common and very distinct;
          it has nothing to do with these Eastern papers. Next, we do have an
          actual term used in Persian and Turkish for this paper, and it doesn't
          translate as "silhouette" at all, but "stencil".

          Here are some examples of the "sprinkled" variety:

          http://expositions.bnf.fr/splendeurs/grand/3-55cd.htm

          http://expositions.bnf.fr/splendeurs/grand/5-121ab.htm

          The "impressed" or "silhouette" variety

          http://classes.bnf.fr/dossisup/grands/138.htm
          http://expositions.bnf.fr/livrarab/grands/048b.htm

          The images from the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (both stenciled
          and marbled) have all been published in a few catalogs. Have you been
          able to visit Philip Croom at the AUC Rare Book & Special Collection
          Library? I think they have these books:

          "L'art du livre arabe : du manuscrit au livre d'artiste"
          http://worldcat.org/oclc/51722494&referer=brief_results

          "Splendeurs persanes : manuscrits du XIIe au XVIIe siècle"
          http://worldcat.org/oclc/38507388&referer=brief_results

          "Soliman le Magnifique : [catalogue de l'exposition présentée du] 15
          février au 14 mai 1990, Galeries nationales du Grand Palais."
          http://worldcat.org/oclc/22854149&referer=brief_results

          Also, there are more examples that had been posted in the Swedish
          National Library site, but they have been removed. You can still see
          the images if you visit www.archives.org and enter these URLs into the
          search box:

          http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/eng/marmorerat.htm
          http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/stambok.jpg
          http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/cod_or_52.htm

          There is one image of the "pochoir" method online. They are found in
          the borders of one of the stencil-marbled paintings of a "nag" or
          starving horse, that was auctioned at Sotheby's in 2002.

          http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=PXPQ

          The image is also found in the folder for this group 'Marbled
          Antiquaria at Auction"

          http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/browse/165b

          http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/view/165b?b=1

          Finally, here is something very special, just for you Haytham. There
          is an image from the Bibliothèque Nationale of an Arabic and Coptic
          Christian manuscript that uses a similar, Ottoman style border. It is
          very intriguing for many reasons:

          http://expositions.bnf.fr/livrarab/grands/076.htm

          Whether or not this paper is of actual Masri manufacture is debatable
          though. There is no specific evidence that has come to light to show
          that this method of decorative paper was ever produced in Egypt. The
          paper could have been made elsewhere and imported. Nevertheless,
          There are earlier examples of what may be stenciled leather designs
          used for doublures (internal covers) in Mamluk bookbindings. Some
          have said that these doublures were block-printed, but I have not
          personally observed any sign of impression.

          Perhaps this is a topic that you can research more? The Director of
          the Islamic Museum in Cairo told me that a woman at Cairo University
          produced her thesis on Mamluk bookbinding. Unfortunately, I cannot
          find my notes with this information, and I was not able to obtain a
          copy of the book anyway; perhaps you can find it and see if there is
          anything helpful to you? In any case, please let me know the citation
          if you should find it.

          Insh'allah hadha mas3dat leek!

          m3a salamah,

          Jake Benson
        • Office
          Also see and read about the work of the late Christopher Weinmann in Ink & Gall Volume V Number 2 Fine Print Volume Nine, Number Four Christopher Weinman
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 23 1:29 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Also see and read about the work of the late Christopher Weinmann in

            Ink & Gall Volume V Number 2

            Fine Print Volume Nine, Number Four

            Christopher Weinman A Tribute


            charles
            +.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+
            L. A Book Arts, Inc.
            Custom Bindery / Krause Intaglio
            321 West Torrance Blvd. Suite A
            Carson, CA 90745
            310.217.0400
            +.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+

            On Mar 23, 2008, at 1:18 PM, Jake Benson wrote:

            > '3zizi Hadratak Haytham!
            >
            > This long message was written by me to help expand upon the
            > description that Antonio posted, with some added observations about
            > "silhouette" papers.
            >
            > "Silhouette paper" as we call it in English, is one method of
            > stenciling known by the terms "kaghez-i 'aksi" or "akkaseh" in
            > Persian, which is spelled "akkase" in Modern Turkish. The word is
            > derived from the Arabic word 'aks meaning "negative" "contrary"
            > "opposite" or "contrast", and in this case can be interpreted to mean
            > "reflection". Various Turkish sources (based on the writings of
            > Mehmet Ali Kagitçi) have reported that the word means "white bowl",
            > but this is erroneous as this latter word is spelled completely
            > differently in Arabic script. Interestingly enough today in Iran,
            > this term is commonly used to refer to photography, likely due to the
            > process of using negative film.
            >
            > This term was used in India as well as Iran and Turkey, and is a very
            > broadly used for all methods of stenciled designs. There are really 3
            > different methods of stenciling found in Islamic decorative papers:
            >
            > 1) Cut paper is placed on a paper and colors are finely sprinkled over
            > top, and then the stencil is removed.
            >
            > 2) Cut paper, leather, or even possible fabric is soaked in dye, and 2
            > sheets of paper are pressed together as a sandwich around the stencil.
            >
            > 3) Color is wiped or blotted through a cut paper stencil, in a
            > "pochoir" method. The stencil which may or may not be reinforced in
            > some manner.
            >
            > (Then there is the additional method of combining stencils with
            > marbling!)
            >
            > In addition, it is very common to find the designs produced by all of
            > these methods can be seen outlined in ink, color, or gold, or in some
            > cases, even overpainted.
            >
            > The information that Antonio gave about using cut leather soaked with
            > dye to produce such papers came from a description provided by the
            > late Turkish bookbinder Emin Barin to Albert Haemmerle. There is no
            > actual textual source for the method he described, and it is not known
            > whether he actually reproduced such designs himself, as the production
            > of such papers had clearly died out by that point in time. I think he
            > was simply offering his thought based on his own observations. See
            > Haemmerle's Buntpapier, page 37, footnote 5, and on page 38. That
            > said, it was this particular form of "impressed" stencil are what can
            > be found in European Alba Amicora of the late 16th-17th centuries. I
            > am not aware that the other "sprinkled" and "pochoir" methods were
            > collected by European travelers in these albums.
            >
            > Barin attributed the invention of this impressed paper to Central Asia
            > and cited two manuscripts, but did not provide an actual reference or
            > accession number. Whether these manuscripts were produced using the
            > "impressed" or the "sprinkled" method remains to be determined. Many
            > examples of the "sprinkled" method can be found n 15th century
            > manuscripts, but I have yet to see any made through the "impressed"
            > method from before the 16th century. I think that this "sprinkled"
            > method is the oldest method. It appears to have been developed during
            > the late Timurid dynasty in workshops in Central Asia, principally
            > Herat, especially during the reign of Sultan Husayn al Bayqara. While
            > there is no textual source describing the method, this can be observed
            > in many manuscripts, especially safina or jung anthologies from the
            > 15th- 17th c. In Central Asia, Iran, and Turkey. I've yet to see one
            > of Indian production.
            >
            > According to Yves Porter, the process is mentioned in a Persian text
            > from India, entitled "Risala-ye Jeld Sazi". There is a problematic
            > term for the material mentioned in a critical edition of the text-
            > "kasanbi" or "kasambi". Porter thinks it may an Indian word for a
            > kind of safflower-dyed starch cloth. See Porter's book Paintere,
            > Paintings, and Books" pp 51-2. he also mentions that the term
            > "kaghez-i 'Aksi" together with "Kaghez-i Abri" is mentioned in the
            > Persian dictionary Me'at ul Istilah of Anand Ram Mokhles.
            >
            > The other methods of stenciling were created by sprinkling very fine
            > drops of color over a cut paper stencil, and then in another different
            > procedure, there appears to be a kind of tampon used to press color
            > directly over the stencil, akin to the French method of "pochoir".
            > This latter method seems to have further developed in India in the
            > 16th century, as a number of borders associated with the atelier of
            > 'Abdur Rahim Khan-e Khanan. These elaborate multi-colored borders are
            > known as "'Aks-i Haft Rang " or "Seven Colored Stencil" designs. For
            > more information, please see the appendix devoted to this subject in
            > "Mughal Art and Patronage" by John Seyller.
            >
            > From my own observations, I think that in the first "impressed"
            > method, two papers were pressed around the cut stencils. If you have
            > the opportunity to view album amicora, you can see that there are
            > reflecting designs. In some, the color "squished" out and the image
            > is blurred, whereas in other cases, the impression is incomplete- and
            > a range of impression in between.
            >
            > In addition, I also wonder if these really were executed using
            > leather, as described by Barin. It depends on the kind of leather ,
            > of course, but most would become to malleable and even expand or
            > become stretchy when whetted, so they would not retain their original
            > form after cutting. For this reason, I think that a thicker, sized
            > paper may have been used, as it would not expand in the manner that
            > leather does. The colors are always dyes, not pigments, and almost
            > always seem to be a red dye, possibly kirmiz, madder, brasilwood, or
            > lotur; a golden yellow dye possibly made from saffron or safflower;
            > and a green dye that is may be made from copper verdigris. Of the top
            > of my head, i have not seen blue used, likely from indigo used, but it
            > may have been that a combination of indigo and yellow was used to make
            > the green color.
            >
            > In connection with this discussion, I have often wondered how we have
            > come to use the term"silhouette" for this "impressed" kind of
            > stenciled paper. Haemmerle does not appear to use this term, but
            > "schablonierens", a term meaning "stencils (If Susanne Krause is
            > reading this, please feel free to add your own observations and
            > correct me if I'm wrong). Just how we came to call this paper
            > "silhouette" is a mystery. I had thought that Rosamond Loring used
            > the term, but after checking, I found that she did not. So that makes
            > me wonder if possibly Olga Hirsch was the first to employ this term.
            > In any case, it is actually a very recent practice, and one that I
            > think we should reconsider for several reasons. The term
            > "silhouette" is a bit misleading, as the European and American
            > traditions of cut paper silhouettes is very common and very distinct;
            > it has nothing to do with these Eastern papers. Next, we do have an
            > actual term used in Persian and Turkish for this paper, and it doesn't
            > translate as "silhouette" at all, but "stencil".
            >
            > Here are some examples of the "sprinkled" variety:
            >
            > http://expositions.bnf.fr/splendeurs/grand/3-55cd.htm
            >
            > http://expositions.bnf.fr/splendeurs/grand/5-121ab.htm
            >
            > The "impressed" or "silhouette" variety
            >
            > http://classes.bnf.fr/dossisup/grands/138.htm
            > http://expositions.bnf.fr/livrarab/grands/048b.htm
            >
            > The images from the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (both stenciled
            > and marbled) have all been published in a few catalogs. Have you been
            > able to visit Philip Croom at the AUC Rare Book & Special Collection
            > Library? I think they have these books:
            >
            > "L'art du livre arabe : du manuscrit au livre d'artiste"
            > http://worldcat.org/oclc/51722494&referer=brief_results
            >
            > "Splendeurs persanes : manuscrits du XIIe au XVIIe siècle"
            > http://worldcat.org/oclc/38507388&referer=brief_results
            >
            > "Soliman le Magnifique : [catalogue de l'exposition
            > présentée du] 15
            > février au 14 mai 1990, Galeries nationales du Grand Palais."
            > http://worldcat.org/oclc/22854149&referer=brief_results
            >
            > Also, there are more examples that had been posted in the Swedish
            > National Library site, but they have been removed. You can still see
            > the images if you visit www.archives.org and enter these URLs into the
            > search box:
            >
            > http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/eng/marmorerat.htm
            > http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/stambok.jpg
            > http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/cod_or_52.htm
            >
            > There is one image of the "pochoir" method online. They are found in
            > the borders of one of the stencil-marbled paintings of a "nag" or
            > starving horse, that was auctioned at Sotheby's in 2002.
            >
            > http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=PXPQ
            >
            > The image is also found in the folder for this group 'Marbled
            > Antiquaria at Auction"
            >
            > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/browse/165b
            >
            > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/view/165b?b=1
            >
            > Finally, here is something very special, just for you Haytham. There
            > is an image from the Bibliothèque Nationale of an Arabic and Coptic
            > Christian manuscript that uses a similar, Ottoman style border. It is
            > very intriguing for many reasons:
            >
            > http://expositions.bnf.fr/livrarab/grands/076.htm
            >
            > Whether or not this paper is of actual Masri manufacture is debatable
            > though. There is no specific evidence that has come to light to show
            > that this method of decorative paper was ever produced in Egypt. The
            > paper could have been made elsewhere and imported. Nevertheless,
            > There are earlier examples of what may be stenciled leather designs
            > used for doublures (internal covers) in Mamluk bookbindings. Some
            > have said that these doublures were block-printed, but I have not
            > personally observed any sign of impression.
            >
            > Perhaps this is a topic that you can research more? The Director of
            > the Islamic Museum in Cairo told me that a woman at Cairo University
            > produced her thesis on Mamluk bookbinding. Unfortunately, I cannot
            > find my notes with this information, and I was not able to obtain a
            > copy of the book anyway; perhaps you can find it and see if there is
            > anything helpful to you? In any case, please let me know the citation
            > if you should find it.
            >
            > Insh'allah hadha mas3dat leek!
            >
            > m3a salamah,
            >
            > Jake Benson
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jake Benson
            Thank you Charles, A digital prospectus for this book was prepared and is available for group members to download. It is available in the files section of
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 26 11:07 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Thank you Charles,

              A digital prospectus for this book was prepared and is available for
              group members to download. It is available in the "files" section of
              the group web site, and is entitled "RevisedWeimannProspectus2007-
              lowres.pdf"

              This book is still available from Ingrid Weimann.

              Jake Benson


              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Office <typenut@...> wrote:
              >
              > Also see and read about the work of the late Christopher Weinmann in
              >
              > Ink & Gall Volume V Number 2
              >
              > Fine Print Volume Nine, Number Four
              >
              > Christopher Weinman A Tribute
              >
              >
              > charles
              > +.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+
              > L. A Book Arts, Inc.
              > Custom Bindery / Krause Intaglio
              > 321 West Torrance Blvd. Suite A
              > Carson, CA 90745
              > 310.217.0400
              >
            • yesim goktepe
              hi all I want to invite all of you to our marbling exhibition, If you join us we ll be very glad sincerelly Yeşim Göktepe ... Yahoo! kullaniyor musunuz?
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 27 2:11 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                hi all
                I want to invite all of you to our marbling exhibition,
                If you join us we'll be very glad
                sincerelly Yeşim Göktepe






                ---------------------------------
                Yahoo! kullaniyor musunuz?
                Istenmeyen postadan biktiniz mi? Istenmeyen postadan en iyi korunma Yahoo! Posta'da
                http://tr.mail.yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • yesim goktepe
                I m sorry about my message there was not added exhibition file in my message. yesim goktepe wrote: hi all I
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 27 10:32 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  I'm sorry about my message there was not added exhibition file in my message.

                  yesim goktepe <yesim63@...> wrote: hi all
                  I want to invite all of you to our marbling exhibition,
                  If you join us we'll be very glad
                  sincerelly Yeşim Göktepe




                  ---------------------------------
                  Yahoo! kullaniyor musunuz?
                  Istenmeyen postadan biktiniz mi? Istenmeyen postadan en iyi korunma Yahoo! Posta'da
                  http://tr.mail.yahoo.com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  ---------------------------------
                  Yahoo! kullaniyor musunuz?
                  Istenmeyen postadan biktiniz mi? Istenmeyen postadan en iyi korunma Yahoo! Posta'da
                  http://tr.mail.yahoo.com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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