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Re: [Marbling] help with applying paint to the size

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  • irisnevins
    You are not telling anyone what you are using, what size, what kind of paint, what ox gall, what paper, do you alum? We need more specific info. Also how you
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 5, 2007
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      You are not telling anyone what you are using, what size, what kind of paint, what ox gall, what paper, do you alum? We need more specific info. Also how you make the size, how thick is the paint, who made it.

      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Ibraheem Shakfeh<mailto:rahmatullah38@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:53 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] help with applying paint to the size


      I'm interested in Ebru marbling but I am having trouble applying paint to the size. I am currently using about 5 ccs of paint for a size a little larger than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper.

      I am using a syringe but am looking for a workable substitute for a horsetail brush. Also, I am having trouble getting the paint to be darker but not sinking. Any help I can get will be appreciated.

      -Ibraheem Shakfeh




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    • Ibraheem Shakfeh
      I m using a methocel size, versatex dispersent, normal printer paper, with alum. I water down the paint usually to a portion of 1/5 (paint/water). -Ibraheem
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 5, 2007
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        I'm using a methocel size, versatex dispersent, normal printer paper, with alum. I water down the paint usually to a portion of 1/5 (paint/water).

        -Ibraheem Shakfeh

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 1:56:36 PM
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] help with applying paint to the size














        You are not telling anyone what you are using, what size, what kind of paint, what ox gall, what paper, do you alum? We need more specific info. Also how you make the size, how thick is the paint, who made it.



        Iris Nevins

        www.marblingpaper. com

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: Ibraheem Shakfeh<mailto:rahmatullah38@ yahoo.com>

        To: Marbling@yahoogroup s.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroup s.com>

        Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:53 PM

        Subject: [Marbling] help with applying paint to the size



        I'm interested in Ebru marbling but I am having trouble applying paint to the size. I am currently using about 5 ccs of paint for a size a little larger than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper.



        I am using a syringe but am looking for a workable substitute for a horsetail brush. Also, I am having trouble getting the paint to be darker but not sinking. Any help I can get will be appreciated.



        -Ibraheem Shakfeh



        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

        http://www.yahoo com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo com/r/hs>



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      • irisnevins
        I will assume you are using acrylic? Maybe you need more dispersant. Paints do not need to be thick, thinner is usually much better. the 5ccs give no
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 5, 2007
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          I will assume you are using acrylic? Maybe you need more dispersant. Paints do not need to be thick, thinner is usually much better. the 5ccs give no indication what one or another pigment may or may not do. One may be heavier than another. Just keep adding water and/or dispersant until it floats.

          Someone out there who works with this stuff would advise better. I am old school... carrageenan and watercolors. I use carrageenan with acrylic when I do use it, and sub Photo-flo for oxgall if needed at all.

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ibraheem Shakfeh<mailto:rahmatullah38@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:25 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] help with applying paint to the size


          I'm using a methocel size, versatex dispersent, normal printer paper, with alum. I water down the paint usually to a portion of 1/5 (paint/water).

          -Ibraheem Shakfeh

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 1:56:36 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] help with applying paint to the size














          You are not telling anyone what you are using, what size, what kind of paint, what ox gall, what paper, do you alum? We need more specific info. Also how you make the size, how thick is the paint, who made it.



          Iris Nevins

          www.marblingpaper<http://www.marblingpaper/>. com

          ----- Original Message -----

          From: Ibraheem Shakfeh<mailto:rahmatullah38<mailto:rahmatullah38>@ yahoo.com>

          To: Marbling@yahoogroup<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroup> s.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroup<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroup> s.com>

          Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:53 PM

          Subject: [Marbling] help with applying paint to the size



          I'm interested in Ebru marbling but I am having trouble applying paint to the size. I am currently using about 5 ccs of paint for a size a little larger than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper.



          I am using a syringe but am looking for a workable substitute for a horsetail brush. Also, I am having trouble getting the paint to be darker but not sinking. Any help I can get will be appreciated.



          -Ibraheem Shakfeh



          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

          http://www.yahoo<http://www.yahoo/>. com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo<http://www.yahoo/>. com/r/hs>



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • enidadams
          ... paper, with alum. I water down the paint usually to a portion of 1/5 (paint/water). ... I am currently using about 5 ccs of paint for a size a little
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 7, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- Ibraheem Shakfeh <rahmatullah38@...> wrote:>
            > I'm using a methocel size, versatex dispersent, normal printer
            paper, with alum. I water down the paint usually to a portion of 1/5
            (paint/water).
            >
            I am currently using about 5 ccs of paint for a size a little larger
            than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper.
            >
            I am using a syringe but am looking for a workable substitute for a
            horsetail brush. Also, I am having trouble getting the paint to be
            darker but not sinking. Any help I can get will be appreciated.
            >-Ibraheem Shakfeh

            A couple of things come to mind that might help with your problem:
            1) When you say "normal printer paper" do you mean regular bond as in
            computer printer paper? This will not print as darkly as a heavier
            rag printmaking paper, even with alum. I normally marble lightweight
            silk, but put a piece of printmaking paper at the end of the tray
            when there is excess pattern past the end of my scarf. I am always
            surprised at how much darker and more vivid the patterns are on heavy
            printmaking paper.

            2) Are you printing papers that have just been alumned, or that have
            been stored away from heat and light? Papers that sit out will
            oxidize and weaken the alum--the pattern will appear lighter, and
            more color will rinse off.

            3)Time is a factor in sinking. Are you getting involved with a
            complex image that is taking a long time to complete? Try making an
            ebru design on a small test size tray, about 1/4 sheet size. This
            will constrict the colors and allow you to achieve density in less
            time.

            4) A syringe is more difficult to control than an eyedropper or
            squeeze bottle. Try one of these for applying your colors, to be
            sure you only apply one drop at a time to the surface of the size.
            And be sure to only touch the surface of the size, not going below,
            when you apply the drop of color.

            5) Be sure to skim immediately before you start your pattern. This
            is very, very important, even if the size is fresh and clean.

            I mix my methyl cellulose 3.5 TB per gallon of water. If you mix it
            thicker, you will need more dilute colors or surfactant (dispersant).
            If the size is old, it gets thin and colors will sink. In this case,
            it's best to throw it out and make a fresh bath. Use the least
            amount of dispersing agent you can, for strong colors. Most
            transparent acrylics have enough, while more opaque colors need more.

            I hope one of these tips helps!
            Enid Adams
          • Ibraheem Shakfeh
            Thanks alot. That helps plenty. Except, I still lack a horestail brush. -Ibraheem Shakfeh ... From: enidadams To:
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 7, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks alot. That helps plenty. Except, I still lack a horestail brush.

              -Ibraheem Shakfeh

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: enidadams <enid@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, December 7, 2007 12:00:54 PM
              Subject: [Marbling] Re: help with applying paint to the size














              --- Ibraheem Shakfeh <rahmatullah38@ ...> wrote:>

              > I'm using a methocel size, versatex dispersent, normal printer

              paper, with alum. I water down the paint usually to a portion of 1/5

              (paint/water) .

              >

              I am currently using about 5 ccs of paint for a size a little larger

              than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper.

              >

              I am using a syringe but am looking for a workable substitute for a

              horsetail brush. Also, I am having trouble getting the paint to be

              darker but not sinking. Any help I can get will be appreciated.

              >-Ibraheem Shakfeh



              A couple of things come to mind that might help with your problem:

              1) When you say "normal printer paper" do you mean regular bond as in

              computer printer paper? This will not print as darkly as a heavier

              rag printmaking paper, even with alum. I normally marble lightweight

              silk, but put a piece of printmaking paper at the end of the tray

              when there is excess pattern past the end of my scarf. I am always

              surprised at how much darker and more vivid the patterns are on heavy

              printmaking paper.



              2) Are you printing papers that have just been alumned, or that have

              been stored away from heat and light? Papers that sit out will

              oxidize and weaken the alum--the pattern will appear lighter, and

              more color will rinse off.



              3)Time is a factor in sinking. Are you getting involved with a

              complex image that is taking a long time to complete? Try making an

              ebru design on a small test size tray, about 1/4 sheet size. This

              will constrict the colors and allow you to achieve density in less

              time.



              4) A syringe is more difficult to control than an eyedropper or

              squeeze bottle. Try one of these for applying your colors, to be

              sure you only apply one drop at a time to the surface of the size.

              And be sure to only touch the surface of the size, not going below,

              when you apply the drop of color.



              5) Be sure to skim immediately before you start your pattern. This

              is very, very important, even if the size is fresh and clean.



              I mix my methyl cellulose 3.5 TB per gallon of water. If you mix it

              thicker, you will need more dilute colors or surfactant (dispersant) .

              If the size is old, it gets thin and colors will sink. In this case,

              it's best to throw it out and make a fresh bath. Use the least

              amount of dispersing agent you can, for strong colors. Most

              transparent acrylics have enough, while more opaque colors need more.



              I hope one of these tips helps!

              Enid Adams














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