Re: [Marbling] new recipe? calgon, hexametaphosphate
- Hi Enid... I just want to comment that most or all of the calgon, methyl cel, etc. formulations are for use when using acrylics and marbling on methyl cel.
I have wantonly always used whatever water I found, hard or soft, with zero additives, the only difference being that I need a bit more carrageenan in hard water areas than in soft. So in hard, I use rounded tablespoons of carrageenan, for soft water areas a level one. Period. This works for me and has for nearly 30 years. I was never taught to marble so do it by feel of the size. I also don't ever save my size. It may be wasteful, but size gets dirty after a full day, and I find nothing more depressing than waking up the next morning to anything but fresh clean size. So I make only as much as I will use in a day. As for hard water with acrylics, I prefer using carrageenan for all paints, so use hard water for the acrylics as well when I marble fabric. Same story as above. I do find that water that is artifically softened with the usual salts is ruination to my marbling paints of both kinds, makes them look soft and fuzzy, and sometimes too pale. So I live with awful mineral buildup. Marbling comes first!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:13 PM
Subject: [Marbling] new recipe? calgon, hexametaphosphate
Thank you fellow marblers, for sharing your cumulative knowledge and
experiences! Following Jake's "calgon" search advice, I have pieced
this information together from the archives. Please correct anything
I have misunderstood. I made a word document (and will add
corrections and clarifications), so anyone who wants a copy can
Note: for anyone searching the chemical name for Calgon's proprietary
ingredient is (was?) sodium hexametaphosphate, assuming Pro Chem's
spelling is right, BUT it is spelled in the archives as
hexemetaphosphate. It's sold as "metaphos" from Pro Chemical.
2003 Peggy advises using pure sodium hexemetaphosphate as water
softener due to additives in grocery store calgon, which can vary
from region to region. Use 1/2-1 TB dissolved per 2 gallons to clear
Diane reports in '07 a quick run to the grocery store for calgon
cleared up problems during an earlier conference with Peggy, so is
worth a try if the pure product is not available.
Gretchen's recent July '07 post says her research shows grocery
calgon (or generic store brand equivalent?) no longer contains sodium
hexametaphosphate, but is now sodium carbonate (washing soda). She
later reports that calgon has solved her problems. Perhaps Calgon
brand still contains both?
Gail had good luck with grocery store calgon, from several years ago,
a near perfect product which allowed her to avoid using ammonia to
raise pH for dissolving methyl cel, and get soft water at the same
time. Being an alkali, sodium carbonate would work to raise pH. She
reports the perfume was removed 10+ years ago. Since phosphates have
been removed from most grocery store consumer washing aids, perhaps
the formula has completely changed since Gail was having good success
with it. She reports the hex... doesn't raise pH alone.
Gail also spoke highly of Rupert Gibbon & Spider's brand of methyl
cel, which gives me hope for good marbling ahead, since I just traded
silk scarves for a pound of it. (I have been using Pro Chem's for
years, initially without problems, but when problems started
occurring, wondered if it might be contamination or a new ingredient
in the methyl cel)
Iris reports having good results marbling on caragheenan with hard
Jake reports fish tank chemicals can be used as pH regulators, ie. pH
Down, but doesn't provide chemical names(probably because their
labels don't). When my studio moved from a well water source to
municipal water, I purchased a product called "ammo lock", meant to
neutralize ammonia in fish tanks. Another one, "chlorine
eliminator", is supposed to neutralize chlorine with one drop per
gallon. Since chlorine and ammonia are both highly alkaline, they
may be equivalent of pH down? It's frustrating not to know chemically
what we are using when there are so many variables to sort out.
I typically use ammonia and vinegar (1-2 tsp per gal.)to alter methyl
cel pH. I have both sodium hexametaphosphate and sodium carbonate in
the dye cabinet, so would appreciate it if someone would clarify the
best recipe for mixing my new RG&S methyl cel with the pure vs.
Calgon brand products. (ie. is it advisable to substitute sodium
carbonate for ammonia?)
I look forward to a new era of marbling without those troublesome
white irregularities that have ruined so many perfect patterns!
Best to all, Enid
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- I clarified to Caryl off list but see her post here. In case my run on
sentences confused anyone else:
"they" refers to Ammo-Lock and Chlorine Eliminator in the first part of
the sentence, supposing "they" may be similar to or the same as pH Down.
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, carylhanc@... wrote:>
> In a message dated 11/21/07 12:13:40 PM, enid@... writes:>pH, not lower it. Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
> > Since chlorine and ammonia are both highly alkaline, they
> > may be equivalent of pH down?> >
> Hi, Enid,
> copied sentence from your review - alkaline substances _raise_ the