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Warming Carragheenan size / Incorporating wax

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  • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
    Hi, sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze into a day. Warming carragheenan size: Here is Ole Lundberg s recipe: just put your
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 15, 2007
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      Hi,

      sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze into a day.

      Warming carragheenan size:
      Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and wait. Worked perfectly,
      and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc. afterwards. We just worked
      very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one time less.

      Incorporating wax:
      The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can persuade the wax to
      separate into tiny balls, you're there.
      With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with the boiling water. The
      ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a trace, it just separates from
      a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to molecules of starch. After
      drying, you give
      the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth, thereby 'flattening' the tiny
      balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is protection as well as the base
      for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface stays sticky in the way bees
      way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard surface and want to do it
      with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is a good idea.

      For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated into the paints. What
      I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling water and adding it to the
      mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole Lundberg's, try malty syrup
      instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar (read, I believe, in
      Weichelt).

      For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a mixture I buy from a
      furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved in pure real turpentine
      oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life ot the polisher
      considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good for the respratory organs;
      to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection, otherwise it can make you
      'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm ball made of non-pilling
      cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it can later be polished to
      just the required
      sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in that way, but I know
      peole who do.

      To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the machine made sheen of the
      19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved with a stone hanging
      downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being operated by a pitiable
      person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only come close.

      Susanne Krause
    • irisnevins
      Thanks Suzanne....with my method I actually do get close to the pre-machine shine, say 1850 and earlier. My agates are not made for bookbinding. They are more
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 15, 2007
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        Thanks Suzanne....with my method I actually do get close to the pre-machine shine, say 1850 and earlier. My agates are not made for bookbinding. They are more like a larger worry stone...with a thumb indent to hold easier. the polishing edge is thin but long, and you hold in your hand and press and rub very hard. It hurts after a bit. I have also tried Jake's friends alum/egg white method that brought up a lovely sheen, though not like the machines of Victorian times. I prefer the softer shine I get with the burnisher and paraffin. I do not do it for customers, I have trouble enough with my hands hurting with all I do! It is easy enough for them to do it.

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:51 AM
        Subject: [Marbling] Warming Carragheenan size / Incorporating wax


        Hi,

        sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze into a day.

        Warming carragheenan size:
        Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and wait. Worked perfectly,
        and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc. afterwards. We just worked
        very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one time less.

        Incorporating wax:
        The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can persuade the wax to
        separate into tiny balls, you're there.
        With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with the boiling water. The
        ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a trace, it just separates from
        a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to molecules of starch. After
        drying, you give
        the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth, thereby 'flattening' the tiny
        balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is protection as well as the base
        for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface stays sticky in the way bees
        way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard surface and want to do it
        with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is a good idea.

        For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated into the paints. What
        I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling water and adding it to the
        mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole Lundberg's, try malty syrup
        instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar (read, I believe, in
        Weichelt).

        For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a mixture I buy from a
        furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved in pure real turpentine
        oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life ot the polisher
        considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good for the respratory organs;
        to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection, otherwise it can make you
        'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm ball made of non-pilling
        cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it can later be polished to
        just the required
        sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in that way, but I know
        peole who do.

        To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the machine made sheen of the
        19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved with a stone hanging
        downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being operated by a pitiable
        person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only come close.

        Susanne Krause




        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • pauliquann
        WOW! What a lot of info. So I should immerse my hands and arms into the size (for how long) and this will do the trick of warming? Is this for real? Thanks,
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 16, 2007
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          WOW! What a lot of info. So I should immerse my hands and arms into
          the size (for how long) and this will do the trick of warming?
          Is this for real?
          Thanks,
          PauliQuann

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
          <studio@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze
          into a day.
          >
          > Warming carragheenan size:
          > Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and
          wait. Worked perfectly,
          > and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc.
          afterwards. We just worked
          > very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one
          time less.
          >
          > Incorporating wax:
          > The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can
          persuade the wax to
          > separate into tiny balls, you're there.
          > With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with
          the boiling water. The
          > ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a
          trace, it just separates from
          > a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to
          molecules of starch. After
          > drying, you give
          > the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth,
          thereby 'flattening' the tiny
          > balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is
          protection as well as the base
          > for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface
          stays sticky in the way bees
          > way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard
          surface and want to do it
          > with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is
          a good idea.
          >
          > For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated
          into the paints. What
          > I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling
          water and adding it to the
          > mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole
          Lundberg's, try malty syrup
          > instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar
          (read, I believe, in
          > Weichelt).
          >
          > For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a
          mixture I buy from a
          > furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved
          in pure real turpentine
          > oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life
          ot the polisher
          > considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good
          for the respratory organs;
          > to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection,
          otherwise it can make you
          > 'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm
          ball made of non-pilling
          > cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it
          can later be polished to
          > just the required
          > sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in
          that way, but I know
          > peole who do.
          >
          > To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the
          machine made sheen of the
          > 19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved
          with a stone hanging
          > downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being
          operated by a pitiable
          > person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only
          come close.
          >
          > Susanne Krause
          >
        • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
          For how long? Until the temperature is right. It works. Susanne Krause
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 17, 2007
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            For how long? Until the temperature is right. It works.

            Susanne Krause

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "pauliquann" <pauliquann@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > WOW! What a lot of info. So I should immerse my hands and arms into
            > the size (for how long) and this will do the trick of warming?
            > Is this for real?
            > Thanks,
            > PauliQuann
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
            > <studio@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze
            > into a day.
            > >
            > > Warming carragheenan size:
            > > Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and
            > wait. Worked perfectly,
            > > and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc.
            > afterwards. We just worked
            > > very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one
            > time less.
            > >
            > > Incorporating wax:
            > > The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can
            > persuade the wax to
            > > separate into tiny balls, you're there.
            > > With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with
            > the boiling water. The
            > > ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a
            > trace, it just separates from
            > > a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to
            > molecules of starch. After
            > > drying, you give
            > > the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth,
            > thereby 'flattening' the tiny
            > > balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is
            > protection as well as the base
            > > for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface
            > stays sticky in the way bees
            > > way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard
            > surface and want to do it
            > > with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is
            > a good idea.
            > >
            > > For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated
            > into the paints. What
            > > I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling
            > water and adding it to the
            > > mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole
            > Lundberg's, try malty syrup
            > > instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar
            > (read, I believe, in
            > > Weichelt).
            > >
            > > For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a
            > mixture I buy from a
            > > furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved
            > in pure real turpentine
            > > oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life
            > ot the polisher
            > > considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good
            > for the respratory organs;
            > > to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection,
            > otherwise it can make you
            > > 'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm
            > ball made of non-pilling
            > > cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it
            > can later be polished to
            > > just the required
            > > sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in
            > that way, but I know
            > > peole who do.
            > >
            > > To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the
            > machine made sheen of the
            > > 19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved
            > with a stone hanging
            > > downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being
            > operated by a pitiable
            > > person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only
            > come close.
            > >
            > > Susanne Krause
            > >
            >
          • pauliquann
            Okay then...I ll give it a try. I m a warm blooded person anyway; my hands are always on the warm side. Thanks again Warm Wishes, Paulette ... into ... squeeze
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 19, 2007
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              Okay then...I'll give it a try. I'm a warm blooded person anyway;
              my hands are always on the warm side.
              Thanks again
              Warm Wishes,
              Paulette
              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
              <studio@...> wrote:
              >
              > For how long? Until the temperature is right. It works.
              >
              > Susanne Krause
              >
              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "pauliquann" <pauliquann@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > WOW! What a lot of info. So I should immerse my hands and arms
              into
              > > the size (for how long) and this will do the trick of warming?
              > > Is this for real?
              > > Thanks,
              > > PauliQuann
              > >
              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
              > > <studio@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi,
              > > >
              > > > sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can
              squeeze
              > > into a day.
              > > >
              > > > Warming carragheenan size:
              > > > Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in
              and
              > > wait. Worked perfectly,
              > > > and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc.
              > > afterwards. We just worked
              > > > very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than
              one
              > > time less.
              > > >
              > > > Incorporating wax:
              > > > The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you
              can
              > > persuade the wax to
              > > > separate into tiny balls, you're there.
              > > > With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax
              with
              > > the boiling water. The
              > > > ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a
              > > trace, it just separates from
              > > > a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to
              > > molecules of starch. After
              > > > drying, you give
              > > > the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth,
              > > thereby 'flattening' the tiny
              > > > balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is
              > > protection as well as the base
              > > > for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's
              surface
              > > stays sticky in the way bees
              > > > way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and
              hard
              > > surface and want to do it
              > > > with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba
              is
              > > a good idea.
              > > >
              > > > For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being
              incorporated
              > > into the paints. What
              > > > I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or
              boiling
              > > water and adding it to the
              > > > mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole
              > > Lundberg's, try malty syrup
              > > > instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground
              felspar
              > > (read, I believe, in
              > > > Weichelt).
              > > >
              > > > For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a
              > > mixture I buy from a
              > > > furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba,
              solved
              > > in pure real turpentine
              > > > oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the
              life
              > > ot the polisher
              > > > considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly
              good
              > > for the respratory organs;
              > > > to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable
              protection,
              > > otherwise it can make you
              > > > 'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a
              firm
              > > ball made of non-pilling
              > > > cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not
              knitted), it
              > > can later be polished to
              > > > just the required
              > > > sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets
              polished in
              > > that way, but I know
              > > > peole who do.
              > > >
              > > > To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the
              > > machine made sheen of the
              > > > 19th century mass produced papers or the special surface
              achieved
              > > with a stone hanging
              > > > downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being
              > > operated by a pitiable
              > > > person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can
              only
              > > come close.
              > > >
              > > > Susanne Krause
              > > >
              > >
              >
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