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Re: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

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  • irisnevins
    Hey...it is easy to do the burnisher and paraffin. Just physically rough after a few. I use a polished agate slice in effect. I do have them for sale but you
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 15, 2007
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      Hey...it is easy to do the burnisher and paraffin. Just physically rough after a few. I use a polished agate slice in effect. I do have them for sale but you can likely get a rock/mineral shop to make something to fit your hand with about a 2" long edge, about 1/8" - 1/4" at most thick. Just rub the living daylights out of it.

      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: sixshort<mailto:joan@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 8:59 AM
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers


      Thanks so much, Iris and Susanne - so much detailed information that
      you have spent time putting together. It all sounds terribly
      difficult and time consuming, but I will try some of the ideas just to
      know what I am about if someone insists on such glazed papers. The
      paper I am copying at present is one such, and looks marvelous, but
      fortunately the bookbinder has not asked me to do the glazing as well
      as the marbling. I still can scarcely believe that a question sent
      into cyberspace can have such immediate, generous and highly informed
      replies.

      Far more satisfying and personal than consulting Wikipedia! Regards,
      Joan--

      In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
      >
      > Not at all waterproof!
      > Problem is, there simply are a lot of these super shiny papers, and
      customers tend to ask
      > for them. Dissuading them is not always easy. If they insist, I wave
      menacing estimates
      > before their noses. Usually that helps.
      >
      > Susanne Krause
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Does this dry waterproof?
      > >
      > > They used to of course, "calendar" the papers by machine. They
      used some sort of soap
      > and glue sizing.
      > >
      > > I find unless you need a mirror finish, the paraffin method to be
      easiest. It is a nice
      > classy looking sheen that approximates what you'd see prior to the
      marbling machines
      > and machine glazing. Very tasteful and shiny enough!
      > >
      > > Iris Nevins
      > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>@>
      > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
      > > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:29 AM
      > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
      > >
      > >
      > > Oh dear, I knew there was something wrong with my posting! This
      one I had forgotten,
      > > Iris. Sorry, Joan.
      > > The traditional method is as follows: brush the sheets with
      technical gelatine mixed
      > with a
      > > few drops of ox gall and then stick the sheets to glass plates
      brushed thinly with oil.
      > For
      > > one sheet, use the window pane. For many sheets, the old
      marblers had special
      > > constructions with glass plates standing one behind another in a
      wooden contraption (I
      > > wish I had something like this for diagonally dribbled papers -
      and the space to house
      > it).
      > > Shiny as a mirror, but even fingers with a summery moisture
      show, and the rejects are
      > > many.
      > >
      > > Susanne Krause
      > >
      > > --- In
      Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "irisnevins"
      > <irisnevins@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > For a real mirror finish, but I think it is not waterproof,
      spread on, as evenly as
      > possible,
      > > a methyl cel solution, made up as if to marble, and set a piece
      of plexiglass over it and
      > > press in a press at least 24 hours or until dry. Peel it back,
      and you are coated. Do it
      > slowly
      > > and carefully or some may adhere to the plexiglass and not the
      paper in spots... it is
      > tricky
      > > and smaller pieces, cut to size for the book are better than a
      huge sheet.
      > > >
      > > > What I would personally do, is a very light coating from a bar
      of paraffin, not to coat
      > as
      > > much as to allow the burnisher to glide easily. Then run the
      living daylights out of it
      > and
      > > kill your arm in the process and you get a nice shine on most
      papers. I sell hand held
      > > burnishers with a flat edge, agate, about 1 1/2" - 2" edges.
      > > >
      > > > This is really the bookbinder's job if they wish. If you are
      doing a lot, you may be
      > sorry!
      > > And I would likely charge more for burnishing a sheet than for
      marbling it. You are
      > talking
      > > about serious physical labor. How many do you need to do? I
      always tell the binder
      > how to
      > > do it if they wish. They take that option when they hear the
      price! It is not rocket
      > science,
      > > it just hurts after a while! It is good though esp. for outer
      papers on the covers, the
      > teeny
      > > layer of paraffin seals water color marbling in very well and it
      can take getting wet by
      > > accident. You want the teeniest layer, otherwise it leaves the
      paper looking a little
      > cloudy.
      > > Plain paraffin bars, from the canning aisle in the supermarket.
      Nothing fancy.
      > > >
      > > > Iris Nevins
      > > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://>
      > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>>
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>>@...>
      > > > To:
      Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto>:
      > Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:00 PM
      > > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi Joan,
      > > >
      > > > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a
      friendly but determined
      > > > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your
      determination is decisive for
      > the
      > > > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to
      wax them again with
      > very
      > > little
      > > > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are
      already on the
      > object. It
      > > is
      > > > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before
      working with the sheets,
      > the
      > > > sides have a very different 'pull'.
      > > > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
      > > >
      > > > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch
      is not Australia's pet
      > > material) .
      > > > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all
      papers and with all
      > paints).
      > > Spray
      > > > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in
      Australian summer, and
      > > takes
      > > > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto
      the surface and brush
      > with
      > > a
      > > > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or
      use a soft woolen cloth
      > > (Outside
      > > > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
      > > >
      > > > What a list of second-best ideas.
      > > >
      > > > Susanne Krause
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In
      Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto>:
      > Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>, "sixshort"
      > > <joan@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does
      anyone know how
      > > > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate
      glazing block
      > > > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know
      of a
      > > > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be
      brushed or sprayed
      > > > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if
      the papers
      > > > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier
      finish.
      > > > >
      > > > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is
      manufactured, or
      > > > > where large sheets can be purchased?
      > > > >
      > > > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true
      Peter Sellers
      > > > > style. . . . . . Joan
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >





      Yahoo! Groups Links





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lokman Torun
      Hi Susanne, How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 13, 2007
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        Hi Susanne,
        How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the others are water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating marbled papers with beeswax?
        Thanks?
        Lokman



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

        Hi Joan,

        try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but determined
        buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive for the
        sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with very little
        additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the object. It is
        not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets, the
        sides have a very different 'pull'.
        I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.

        Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's pet material) .
        Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all paints). Spray
        with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer, and takes
        about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush with a
        veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen cloth (Outside
        only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).

        What a list of second-best ideas.

        Susanne Krause

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroup s.com, "sixshort" <joan@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
        > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
        > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
        > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
        > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
        > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
        >
        > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
        > where large sheets can be purchased?
        >
        > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
        > style. . . . . . Joan
        >






        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
        http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • irisnevins
        They did used to grind it into the paint formula. I never tried it. If I want a glaze I run a bar of paraffin (from the supermarket canning aisle, or with the
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 13, 2007
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          They did used to grind it into the paint formula. I never tried it. If I want a glaze I run a bar of paraffin (from the supermarket canning aisle, or with the jellies) lightly over the paper, then burnish it. The wax is not to coat the paper as much as to let the burnisher glide. I can get a great shine, though not as shiny as the machine glazed/polished Victorian papers. I like the hand rubbed one better personally. I use a small hand held agate with a 1/8" or a little larger edge, and the edge is about 1 1/2" It is hard work but it shines fast. I wouldn't do the whole paper, but rather the smaller cut pieces you will be using. It can hurt your arm or hands after a while!

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Lokman Torun<mailto:lokmantorun@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:09 AM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers


          Hi Susanne,
          How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the others are water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating marbled papers with beeswax?
          Thanks?
          Lokman



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...<mailto:studio@...>>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

          Hi Joan,

          try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but determined
          buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive for the
          sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with very little
          additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the object. It is
          not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets, the
          sides have a very different 'pull'.
          I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.

          Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's pet material) .
          Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all paints). Spray
          with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer, and takes
          about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush with a
          veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen cloth (Outside
          only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).

          What a list of second-best ideas.

          Susanne Krause

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroup<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroup> s.com, "sixshort" <joan@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
          > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
          > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
          > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
          > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
          > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
          >
          > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
          > where large sheets can be purchased?
          >
          > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
          > style. . . . . . Joan
          >






          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
          http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433<http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433>

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jake Benson
          Lokman, For marbling, straight beeswax was never added to marbling pints in Europe and the US. It was prepared first by melting it together with pure soap,
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 13, 2007
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            Lokman,

            For marbling, straight beeswax was never added to marbling pints in
            Europe and the US. It was prepared first by melting it together with
            pure soap, which is them known as "saponified wax". Instructions are
            found in several manuals, such as those by Woolnough, Halfer, and
            Kinder. A small amount of powdered saponified wax was then added to
            the paints. I think this can be observed in early 19th marbled sheets
            where the color appears to be a very heavy paint layer. when held up
            to the light, the color appears to be very shiny, but the surrounding
            paper is quite dull.

            Jake Benson


            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Lokman Torun <lokmantorun@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Susanne,
            > How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it
            is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic
            while the others are water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating
            marbled papers with beeswax?
            > Thanks?
            > Lokman
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...>
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
            > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
            >
            > Hi Joan,
            >
            > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly
            but determined
            > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination
            is decisive for the
            > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax
            them again with very little
            > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already
            on the object. It is
            > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with
            the sheets, the
            > sides have a very different 'pull'.
            > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
            >
            > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not
            Australia's pet material) .
            > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and
            with all paints). Spray
            > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in
            Australian summer, and takes
            > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the
            surface and brush with a
            > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a
            soft woolen cloth (Outside
            > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
            >
            > What a list of second-best ideas.
            >
            > Susanne Krause
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroup s.com, "sixshort" <joan@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
            > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
            > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
            > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
            > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
            > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
            > >
            > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
            > > where large sheets can be purchased?
            > >
            > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
            > > style. . . . . . Joan
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone
            who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
            > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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