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Re: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

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  • irisnevins
    Does this dry waterproof? They used to of course, calendar the papers by machine. They used some sort of soap and glue sizing. I find unless you need a
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 14, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Does this dry waterproof?

      They used to of course, "calendar" the papers by machine. They used some sort of soap and glue sizing.

      I find unless you need a mirror finish, the paraffin method to be easiest. It is a nice classy looking sheen that approximates what you'd see prior to the marbling machines and machine glazing. Very tasteful and shiny enough!

      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:29 AM
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers


      Oh dear, I knew there was something wrong with my posting! This one I had forgotten,
      Iris. Sorry, Joan.
      The traditional method is as follows: brush the sheets with technical gelatine mixed with a
      few drops of ox gall and then stick the sheets to glass plates brushed thinly with oil. For
      one sheet, use the window pane. For many sheets, the old marblers had special
      constructions with glass plates standing one behind another in a wooden contraption (I
      wish I had something like this for diagonally dribbled papers - and the space to house it).
      Shiny as a mirror, but even fingers with a summery moisture show, and the rejects are
      many.

      Susanne Krause

      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
      >
      > For a real mirror finish, but I think it is not waterproof, spread on, as evenly as possible,
      a methyl cel solution, made up as if to marble, and set a piece of plexiglass over it and
      press in a press at least 24 hours or until dry. Peel it back, and you are coated. Do it slowly
      and carefully or some may adhere to the plexiglass and not the paper in spots... it is tricky
      and smaller pieces, cut to size for the book are better than a huge sheet.
      >
      > What I would personally do, is a very light coating from a bar of paraffin, not to coat as
      much as to allow the burnisher to glide easily. Then run the living daylights out of it and
      kill your arm in the process and you get a nice shine on most papers. I sell hand held
      burnishers with a flat edge, agate, about 1 1/2" - 2" edges.
      >
      > This is really the bookbinder's job if they wish. If you are doing a lot, you may be sorry!
      And I would likely charge more for burnishing a sheet than for marbling it. You are talking
      about serious physical labor. How many do you need to do? I always tell the binder how to
      do it if they wish. They take that option when they hear the price! It is not rocket science,
      it just hurts after a while! It is good though esp. for outer papers on the covers, the teeny
      layer of paraffin seals water color marbling in very well and it can take getting wet by
      accident. You want the teeniest layer, otherwise it leaves the paper looking a little cloudy.
      Plain paraffin bars, from the canning aisle in the supermarket. Nothing fancy.
      >
      > Iris Nevins
      > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>@...>
      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
      > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:00 PM
      > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
      >
      >
      > Hi Joan,
      >
      > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but determined
      > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive for the
      > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with very
      little
      > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the object. It
      is
      > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets, the
      > sides have a very different 'pull'.
      > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
      >
      > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's pet
      material) .
      > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all paints).
      Spray
      > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer, and
      takes
      > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush with
      a
      > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen cloth
      (Outside
      > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
      >
      > What a list of second-best ideas.
      >
      > Susanne Krause
      >
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "sixshort"
      <joan@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
      > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
      > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
      > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
      > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
      > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
      > >
      > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
      > > where large sheets can be purchased?
      > >
      > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
      > > style. . . . . . Joan
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





      Yahoo! Groups Links





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
      Not at all waterproof! Problem is, there simply are a lot of these super shiny papers, and customers tend to ask for them. Dissuading them is not always easy.
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 14, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Not at all waterproof!
        Problem is, there simply are a lot of these super shiny papers, and customers tend to ask
        for them. Dissuading them is not always easy. If they insist, I wave menacing estimates
        before their noses. Usually that helps.

        Susanne Krause

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does this dry waterproof?
        >
        > They used to of course, "calendar" the papers by machine. They used some sort of soap
        and glue sizing.
        >
        > I find unless you need a mirror finish, the paraffin method to be easiest. It is a nice
        classy looking sheen that approximates what you'd see prior to the marbling machines
        and machine glazing. Very tasteful and shiny enough!
        >
        > Iris Nevins
        > www.marblingpaper.com
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:29 AM
        > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
        >
        >
        > Oh dear, I knew there was something wrong with my posting! This one I had forgotten,
        > Iris. Sorry, Joan.
        > The traditional method is as follows: brush the sheets with technical gelatine mixed
        with a
        > few drops of ox gall and then stick the sheets to glass plates brushed thinly with oil.
        For
        > one sheet, use the window pane. For many sheets, the old marblers had special
        > constructions with glass plates standing one behind another in a wooden contraption (I
        > wish I had something like this for diagonally dribbled papers - and the space to house
        it).
        > Shiny as a mirror, but even fingers with a summery moisture show, and the rejects are
        > many.
        >
        > Susanne Krause
        >
        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins"
        <irisnevins@> wrote:
        > >
        > > For a real mirror finish, but I think it is not waterproof, spread on, as evenly as
        possible,
        > a methyl cel solution, made up as if to marble, and set a piece of plexiglass over it and
        > press in a press at least 24 hours or until dry. Peel it back, and you are coated. Do it
        slowly
        > and carefully or some may adhere to the plexiglass and not the paper in spots... it is
        tricky
        > and smaller pieces, cut to size for the book are better than a huge sheet.
        > >
        > > What I would personally do, is a very light coating from a bar of paraffin, not to coat
        as
        > much as to allow the burnisher to glide easily. Then run the living daylights out of it
        and
        > kill your arm in the process and you get a nice shine on most papers. I sell hand held
        > burnishers with a flat edge, agate, about 1 1/2" - 2" edges.
        > >
        > > This is really the bookbinder's job if they wish. If you are doing a lot, you may be
        sorry!
        > And I would likely charge more for burnishing a sheet than for marbling it. You are
        talking
        > about serious physical labor. How many do you need to do? I always tell the binder
        how to
        > do it if they wish. They take that option when they hear the price! It is not rocket
        science,
        > it just hurts after a while! It is good though esp. for outer papers on the covers, the
        teeny
        > layer of paraffin seals water color marbling in very well and it can take getting wet by
        > accident. You want the teeniest layer, otherwise it leaves the paper looking a little
        cloudy.
        > Plain paraffin bars, from the canning aisle in the supermarket. Nothing fancy.
        > >
        > > Iris Nevins
        > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://
        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>@...>
        > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
        Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
        > > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:00 PM
        > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Joan,
        > >
        > > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but determined
        > > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive for
        the
        > > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with
        very
        > little
        > > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the
        object. It
        > is
        > > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets,
        the
        > > sides have a very different 'pull'.
        > > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
        > >
        > > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's pet
        > material) .
        > > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all
        paints).
        > Spray
        > > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer, and
        > takes
        > > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush
        with
        > a
        > > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen cloth
        > (Outside
        > > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
        > >
        > > What a list of second-best ideas.
        > >
        > > Susanne Krause
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
        Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "sixshort"
        > <joan@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
        > > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
        > > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
        > > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
        > > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
        > > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
        > > >
        > > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
        > > > where large sheets can be purchased?
        > > >
        > > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
        > > > style. . . . . . Joan
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • irisnevins
        Yes, if someone insisted I tell them it s $30 a sheet or they can buy one of my burnishers for it and a bar of wax and do it themselves! It really hurts after
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 14, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, if someone insisted I tell them it's $30 a sheet or they can buy one of my burnishers for it and a bar of wax and do it themselves! It really hurts after a while.

          The way to go is to not do the whole sheet, just cut it a little bigger than the size you need. The pieces go faster and more evenly. It it a lovely sheen and is waterproof from the little bit of wax. I love the way it looks.

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:02 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers


          Not at all waterproof!
          Problem is, there simply are a lot of these super shiny papers, and customers tend to ask
          for them. Dissuading them is not always easy. If they insist, I wave menacing estimates
          before their noses. Usually that helps.

          Susanne Krause

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
          >
          > Does this dry waterproof?
          >
          > They used to of course, "calendar" the papers by machine. They used some sort of soap
          and glue sizing.
          >
          > I find unless you need a mirror finish, the paraffin method to be easiest. It is a nice
          classy looking sheen that approximates what you'd see prior to the marbling machines
          and machine glazing. Very tasteful and shiny enough!
          >
          > Iris Nevins
          > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>@...>
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
          > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:29 AM
          > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
          >
          >
          > Oh dear, I knew there was something wrong with my posting! This one I had forgotten,
          > Iris. Sorry, Joan.
          > The traditional method is as follows: brush the sheets with technical gelatine mixed
          with a
          > few drops of ox gall and then stick the sheets to glass plates brushed thinly with oil.
          For
          > one sheet, use the window pane. For many sheets, the old marblers had special
          > constructions with glass plates standing one behind another in a wooden contraption (I
          > wish I had something like this for diagonally dribbled papers - and the space to house
          it).
          > Shiny as a mirror, but even fingers with a summery moisture show, and the rejects are
          > many.
          >
          > Susanne Krause
          >
          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "irisnevins"
          <irisnevins@> wrote:
          > >
          > > For a real mirror finish, but I think it is not waterproof, spread on, as evenly as
          possible,
          > a methyl cel solution, made up as if to marble, and set a piece of plexiglass over it and
          > press in a press at least 24 hours or until dry. Peel it back, and you are coated. Do it
          slowly
          > and carefully or some may adhere to the plexiglass and not the paper in spots... it is
          tricky
          > and smaller pieces, cut to size for the book are better than a huge sheet.
          > >
          > > What I would personally do, is a very light coating from a bar of paraffin, not to coat
          as
          > much as to allow the burnisher to glide easily. Then run the living daylights out of it
          and
          > kill your arm in the process and you get a nice shine on most papers. I sell hand held
          > burnishers with a flat edge, agate, about 1 1/2" - 2" edges.
          > >
          > > This is really the bookbinder's job if they wish. If you are doing a lot, you may be
          sorry!
          > And I would likely charge more for burnishing a sheet than for marbling it. You are
          talking
          > about serious physical labor. How many do you need to do? I always tell the binder
          how to
          > do it if they wish. They take that option when they hear the price! It is not rocket
          science,
          > it just hurts after a while! It is good though esp. for outer papers on the covers, the
          teeny
          > layer of paraffin seals water color marbling in very well and it can take getting wet by
          > accident. You want the teeniest layer, otherwise it leaves the paper looking a little
          cloudy.
          > Plain paraffin bars, from the canning aisle in the supermarket. Nothing fancy.
          > >
          > > Iris Nevins
          > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://>
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>>
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>>@...>
          > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto>:
          Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:00 PM
          > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Joan,
          > >
          > > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but determined
          > > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive for
          the
          > > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with
          very
          > little
          > > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the
          object. It
          > is
          > > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets,
          the
          > > sides have a very different 'pull'.
          > > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
          > >
          > > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's pet
          > material) .
          > > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all
          paints).
          > Spray
          > > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer, and
          > takes
          > > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush
          with
          > a
          > > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen cloth
          > (Outside
          > > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
          > >
          > > What a list of second-best ideas.
          > >
          > > Susanne Krause
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto>:
          Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>, "sixshort"
          > <joan@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
          > > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
          > > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
          > > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
          > > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
          > > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
          > > >
          > > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
          > > > where large sheets can be purchased?
          > > >
          > > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
          > > > style. . . . . . Joan
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • sixshort
          Thanks so much, Iris and Susanne - so much detailed information that you have spent time putting together. It all sounds terribly difficult and time
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 15, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks so much, Iris and Susanne - so much detailed information that
            you have spent time putting together. It all sounds terribly
            difficult and time consuming, but I will try some of the ideas just to
            know what I am about if someone insists on such glazed papers. The
            paper I am copying at present is one such, and looks marvelous, but
            fortunately the bookbinder has not asked me to do the glazing as well
            as the marbling. I still can scarcely believe that a question sent
            into cyberspace can have such immediate, generous and highly informed
            replies.

            Far more satisfying and personal than consulting Wikipedia! Regards,
            Joan--

            In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
            >
            > Not at all waterproof!
            > Problem is, there simply are a lot of these super shiny papers, and
            customers tend to ask
            > for them. Dissuading them is not always easy. If they insist, I wave
            menacing estimates
            > before their noses. Usually that helps.
            >
            > Susanne Krause
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Does this dry waterproof?
            > >
            > > They used to of course, "calendar" the papers by machine. They
            used some sort of soap
            > and glue sizing.
            > >
            > > I find unless you need a mirror finish, the paraffin method to be
            easiest. It is a nice
            > classy looking sheen that approximates what you'd see prior to the
            marbling machines
            > and machine glazing. Very tasteful and shiny enough!
            > >
            > > Iris Nevins
            > > www.marblingpaper.com
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@>
            > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:29 AM
            > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
            > >
            > >
            > > Oh dear, I knew there was something wrong with my posting! This
            one I had forgotten,
            > > Iris. Sorry, Joan.
            > > The traditional method is as follows: brush the sheets with
            technical gelatine mixed
            > with a
            > > few drops of ox gall and then stick the sheets to glass plates
            brushed thinly with oil.
            > For
            > > one sheet, use the window pane. For many sheets, the old
            marblers had special
            > > constructions with glass plates standing one behind another in a
            wooden contraption (I
            > > wish I had something like this for diagonally dribbled papers -
            and the space to house
            > it).
            > > Shiny as a mirror, but even fingers with a summery moisture
            show, and the rejects are
            > > many.
            > >
            > > Susanne Krause
            > >
            > > --- In
            Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins"
            > <irisnevins@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > For a real mirror finish, but I think it is not waterproof,
            spread on, as evenly as
            > possible,
            > > a methyl cel solution, made up as if to marble, and set a piece
            of plexiglass over it and
            > > press in a press at least 24 hours or until dry. Peel it back,
            and you are coated. Do it
            > slowly
            > > and carefully or some may adhere to the plexiglass and not the
            paper in spots... it is
            > tricky
            > > and smaller pieces, cut to size for the book are better than a
            huge sheet.
            > > >
            > > > What I would personally do, is a very light coating from a bar
            of paraffin, not to coat
            > as
            > > much as to allow the burnisher to glide easily. Then run the
            living daylights out of it
            > and
            > > kill your arm in the process and you get a nice shine on most
            papers. I sell hand held
            > > burnishers with a flat edge, agate, about 1 1/2" - 2" edges.
            > > >
            > > > This is really the bookbinder's job if they wish. If you are
            doing a lot, you may be
            > sorry!
            > > And I would likely charge more for burnishing a sheet than for
            marbling it. You are
            > talking
            > > about serious physical labor. How many do you need to do? I
            always tell the binder
            > how to
            > > do it if they wish. They take that option when they hear the
            price! It is not rocket
            > science,
            > > it just hurts after a while! It is good though esp. for outer
            papers on the covers, the
            > teeny
            > > layer of paraffin seals water color marbling in very well and it
            can take getting wet by
            > > accident. You want the teeniest layer, otherwise it leaves the
            paper looking a little
            > cloudy.
            > > Plain paraffin bars, from the canning aisle in the supermarket.
            Nothing fancy.
            > > >
            > > > Iris Nevins
            > > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://
            > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>@...>
            > > > To:
            Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
            > Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
            > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:00 PM
            > > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi Joan,
            > > >
            > > > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a
            friendly but determined
            > > > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your
            determination is decisive for
            > the
            > > > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to
            wax them again with
            > very
            > > little
            > > > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are
            already on the
            > object. It
            > > is
            > > > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before
            working with the sheets,
            > the
            > > > sides have a very different 'pull'.
            > > > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
            > > >
            > > > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch
            is not Australia's pet
            > > material) .
            > > > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all
            papers and with all
            > paints).
            > > Spray
            > > > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in
            Australian summer, and
            > > takes
            > > > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto
            the surface and brush
            > with
            > > a
            > > > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or
            use a soft woolen cloth
            > > (Outside
            > > > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
            > > >
            > > > What a list of second-best ideas.
            > > >
            > > > Susanne Krause
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In
            Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
            > Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "sixshort"
            > > <joan@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does
            anyone know how
            > > > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate
            glazing block
            > > > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know
            of a
            > > > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be
            brushed or sprayed
            > > > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if
            the papers
            > > > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier
            finish.
            > > > >
            > > > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is
            manufactured, or
            > > > > where large sheets can be purchased?
            > > > >
            > > > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true
            Peter Sellers
            > > > > style. . . . . . Joan
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • irisnevins
            Hey...it is easy to do the burnisher and paraffin. Just physically rough after a few. I use a polished agate slice in effect. I do have them for sale but you
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 15, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Hey...it is easy to do the burnisher and paraffin. Just physically rough after a few. I use a polished agate slice in effect. I do have them for sale but you can likely get a rock/mineral shop to make something to fit your hand with about a 2" long edge, about 1/8" - 1/4" at most thick. Just rub the living daylights out of it.

              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: sixshort<mailto:joan@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 8:59 AM
              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers


              Thanks so much, Iris and Susanne - so much detailed information that
              you have spent time putting together. It all sounds terribly
              difficult and time consuming, but I will try some of the ideas just to
              know what I am about if someone insists on such glazed papers. The
              paper I am copying at present is one such, and looks marvelous, but
              fortunately the bookbinder has not asked me to do the glazing as well
              as the marbling. I still can scarcely believe that a question sent
              into cyberspace can have such immediate, generous and highly informed
              replies.

              Far more satisfying and personal than consulting Wikipedia! Regards,
              Joan--

              In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
              >
              > Not at all waterproof!
              > Problem is, there simply are a lot of these super shiny papers, and
              customers tend to ask
              > for them. Dissuading them is not always easy. If they insist, I wave
              menacing estimates
              > before their noses. Usually that helps.
              >
              > Susanne Krause
              >
              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Does this dry waterproof?
              > >
              > > They used to of course, "calendar" the papers by machine. They
              used some sort of soap
              > and glue sizing.
              > >
              > > I find unless you need a mirror finish, the paraffin method to be
              easiest. It is a nice
              > classy looking sheen that approximates what you'd see prior to the
              marbling machines
              > and machine glazing. Very tasteful and shiny enough!
              > >
              > > Iris Nevins
              > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>@>
              > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
              > > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:29 AM
              > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
              > >
              > >
              > > Oh dear, I knew there was something wrong with my posting! This
              one I had forgotten,
              > > Iris. Sorry, Joan.
              > > The traditional method is as follows: brush the sheets with
              technical gelatine mixed
              > with a
              > > few drops of ox gall and then stick the sheets to glass plates
              brushed thinly with oil.
              > For
              > > one sheet, use the window pane. For many sheets, the old
              marblers had special
              > > constructions with glass plates standing one behind another in a
              wooden contraption (I
              > > wish I had something like this for diagonally dribbled papers -
              and the space to house
              > it).
              > > Shiny as a mirror, but even fingers with a summery moisture
              show, and the rejects are
              > > many.
              > >
              > > Susanne Krause
              > >
              > > --- In
              Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "irisnevins"
              > <irisnevins@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > For a real mirror finish, but I think it is not waterproof,
              spread on, as evenly as
              > possible,
              > > a methyl cel solution, made up as if to marble, and set a piece
              of plexiglass over it and
              > > press in a press at least 24 hours or until dry. Peel it back,
              and you are coated. Do it
              > slowly
              > > and carefully or some may adhere to the plexiglass and not the
              paper in spots... it is
              > tricky
              > > and smaller pieces, cut to size for the book are better than a
              huge sheet.
              > > >
              > > > What I would personally do, is a very light coating from a bar
              of paraffin, not to coat
              > as
              > > much as to allow the burnisher to glide easily. Then run the
              living daylights out of it
              > and
              > > kill your arm in the process and you get a nice shine on most
              papers. I sell hand held
              > > burnishers with a flat edge, agate, about 1 1/2" - 2" edges.
              > > >
              > > > This is really the bookbinder's job if they wish. If you are
              doing a lot, you may be
              > sorry!
              > > And I would likely charge more for burnishing a sheet than for
              marbling it. You are
              > talking
              > > about serious physical labor. How many do you need to do? I
              always tell the binder
              > how to
              > > do it if they wish. They take that option when they hear the
              price! It is not rocket
              > science,
              > > it just hurts after a while! It is good though esp. for outer
              papers on the covers, the
              > teeny
              > > layer of paraffin seals water color marbling in very well and it
              can take getting wet by
              > > accident. You want the teeniest layer, otherwise it leaves the
              paper looking a little
              > cloudy.
              > > Plain paraffin bars, from the canning aisle in the supermarket.
              Nothing fancy.
              > > >
              > > > Iris Nevins
              > > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://>
              > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>>
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio<mailto:studio<mailto:studio<mailto:studio>>@...>
              > > > To:
              Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto>:
              > Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>
              > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:00 PM
              > > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Hi Joan,
              > > >
              > > > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a
              friendly but determined
              > > > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your
              determination is decisive for
              > the
              > > > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to
              wax them again with
              > very
              > > little
              > > > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are
              already on the
              > object. It
              > > is
              > > > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before
              working with the sheets,
              > the
              > > > sides have a very different 'pull'.
              > > > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
              > > >
              > > > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch
              is not Australia's pet
              > > material) .
              > > > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all
              papers and with all
              > paints).
              > > Spray
              > > > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in
              Australian summer, and
              > > takes
              > > > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto
              the surface and brush
              > with
              > > a
              > > > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or
              use a soft woolen cloth
              > > (Outside
              > > > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
              > > >
              > > > What a list of second-best ideas.
              > > >
              > > > Susanne Krause
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In
              Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto>:
              > Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>, "sixshort"
              > > <joan@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does
              anyone know how
              > > > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate
              glazing block
              > > > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know
              of a
              > > > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be
              brushed or sprayed
              > > > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if
              the papers
              > > > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier
              finish.
              > > > >
              > > > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is
              manufactured, or
              > > > > where large sheets can be purchased?
              > > > >
              > > > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true
              Peter Sellers
              > > > > style. . . . . . Joan
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >





              Yahoo! Groups Links





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lokman Torun
              Hi Susanne, How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 13, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Susanne,
                How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the others are water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating marbled papers with beeswax?
                Thanks?
                Lokman



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

                Hi Joan,

                try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but determined
                buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive for the
                sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with very little
                additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the object. It is
                not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets, the
                sides have a very different 'pull'.
                I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.

                Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's pet material) .
                Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all paints). Spray
                with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer, and takes
                about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush with a
                veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen cloth (Outside
                only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).

                What a list of second-best ideas.

                Susanne Krause

                --- In Marbling@yahoogroup s.com, "sixshort" <joan@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
                > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
                > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
                > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
                > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
                > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
                >
                > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
                > where large sheets can be purchased?
                >
                > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
                > style. . . . . . Joan
                >






                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • irisnevins
                They did used to grind it into the paint formula. I never tried it. If I want a glaze I run a bar of paraffin (from the supermarket canning aisle, or with the
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 13, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  They did used to grind it into the paint formula. I never tried it. If I want a glaze I run a bar of paraffin (from the supermarket canning aisle, or with the jellies) lightly over the paper, then burnish it. The wax is not to coat the paper as much as to let the burnisher glide. I can get a great shine, though not as shiny as the machine glazed/polished Victorian papers. I like the hand rubbed one better personally. I use a small hand held agate with a 1/8" or a little larger edge, and the edge is about 1 1/2" It is hard work but it shines fast. I wouldn't do the whole paper, but rather the smaller cut pieces you will be using. It can hurt your arm or hands after a while!

                  Iris Nevins
                  www.marblingpaper.com
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Lokman Torun<mailto:lokmantorun@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:09 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers


                  Hi Susanne,
                  How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the others are water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating marbled papers with beeswax?
                  Thanks?
                  Lokman



                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...<mailto:studio@...>>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
                  Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

                  Hi Joan,

                  try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but determined
                  buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive for the
                  sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with very little
                  additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the object. It is
                  not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets, the
                  sides have a very different 'pull'.
                  I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.

                  Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's pet material) .
                  Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all paints). Spray
                  with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer, and takes
                  about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush with a
                  veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen cloth (Outside
                  only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).

                  What a list of second-best ideas.

                  Susanne Krause

                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroup<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroup> s.com, "sixshort" <joan@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
                  > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
                  > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
                  > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
                  > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
                  > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
                  >
                  > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
                  > where large sheets can be purchased?
                  >
                  > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
                  > style. . . . . . Joan
                  >






                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                  http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433<http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433>

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  Yahoo! Groups Links





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jake Benson
                  Lokman, For marbling, straight beeswax was never added to marbling pints in Europe and the US. It was prepared first by melting it together with pure soap,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 13, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Lokman,

                    For marbling, straight beeswax was never added to marbling pints in
                    Europe and the US. It was prepared first by melting it together with
                    pure soap, which is them known as "saponified wax". Instructions are
                    found in several manuals, such as those by Woolnough, Halfer, and
                    Kinder. A small amount of powdered saponified wax was then added to
                    the paints. I think this can be observed in early 19th marbled sheets
                    where the color appears to be a very heavy paint layer. when held up
                    to the light, the color appears to be very shiny, but the surrounding
                    paper is quite dull.

                    Jake Benson


                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Lokman Torun <lokmantorun@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Susanne,
                    > How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it
                    is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic
                    while the others are water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating
                    marbled papers with beeswax?
                    > Thanks?
                    > Lokman
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message ----
                    > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...>
                    > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
                    > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
                    >
                    > Hi Joan,
                    >
                    > try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly
                    but determined
                    > buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination
                    is decisive for the
                    > sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax
                    them again with very little
                    > additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already
                    on the object. It is
                    > not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with
                    the sheets, the
                    > sides have a very different 'pull'.
                    > I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
                    >
                    > Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not
                    Australia's pet material) .
                    > Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and
                    with all paints). Spray
                    > with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in
                    Australian summer, and takes
                    > about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the
                    surface and brush with a
                    > veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a
                    soft woolen cloth (Outside
                    > only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
                    >
                    > What a list of second-best ideas.
                    >
                    > Susanne Krause
                    >
                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroup s.com, "sixshort" <joan@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
                    > > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
                    > > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
                    > > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
                    > > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
                    > > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
                    > >
                    > > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
                    > > where large sheets can be purchased?
                    > >
                    > > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
                    > > style. . . . . . Joan
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                    > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone
                    who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                    > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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