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Re: Introduction and questions

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  • spurioussignals
    ... This is the original instant gratification QUEEN you are talking to. Sigh. I expect that everything will cooperate in my universe and work perfectly the
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
      :-O A full year!
      This is the original instant gratification QUEEN you are talking to.
      Sigh. I expect that everything will cooperate in my universe and work
      perfectly the very first time, lol

      I am supposed to be working on patience so I guess that is why I was
      sent in the direction of marbling, the universe is playing some kind
      or sick cruel joke;-)
      I do love it though, so I am determined to get good at it.
      I have to. I am so in love with the paper and purchased quite a lot of
      Galen's but have not been able to bring myself to cut it, it is just
      so beautiful. I know that I will have to learn to do it myself if I
      want to be able to USE any marbled paper in book projects.

      When I got my first apartment in the mid 70's I started making
      handmade paper, it was just me so that was all I used my kitchen for,
      never even bought pots and pans. Back then I didn't know anyone who
      was making paper and there was no Internet, so I did a lot of
      experimenting and that was the fun of it, just seeing what would
      happen. I Need to get that spirit of exploration back, that's what I
      am lacking! Too many years of working as an insurance agent (and
      hating it) It really kills that child like enthusiasm for making stuff
      for the pleasure of seeing how it comes out, Not striving for or
      demanding perfection every time.
      (and at least I don't have to boil seaweed, that has got to be a good
      thing!)

      So thanks for the new attitude. And for sharing your hard earned
      knowledge, not everyone is so willing to mentor a novice, and I swear,
      cross my heart that I have read tons of sites and have Diane
      Maurer-Mathisson's Ultimate book.. But it doesn't have much on acrylic
      marbling. And, of course I have Galen's book. I have another that I
      will not mention the author but it leaves a lot to be desired.

      When I learned to clone Orchids from stem tissue, there was one
      Russian site that had a primitive set up and instructions, not
      speaking Russian made it difficult to glean a lot of info but I got
      the gist, no one else would share. So if you want to clone orchids or
      do woodcarving or stained glass, or welding or use a plasma cutter,
      metal etching, calligraphy, clay tiles, slumped glass, antique
      restoration, raised gold gilding.... I'm your girl!
      (Never mind, I forgot you make that wonderful medieval Jewelry)
      .......There's still Orchids!

      Sorry, I am a terrible rambler.

      Dani

      PS, tried to buys some of your paper, but it was storming here last
      night and playing havoc with my connection, I'll try again Sunday,
      Or... you could just mail me an invoice for one Blue Spanish Sunspot,
      one Tortoiseshell, and one Moire (any color on the last one, pick your
      favorite) I don't have any watercolor marbled paper. They will go into
      the collection of papers that are not to be cut, lol


      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
      >
      > You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and
      have it run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.
      >
      > Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you
      have to keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the
      morning will be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will
      with patience get to the point where you know what to do.
      >
      > Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water
      or additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches
      of the dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy
      did we have troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making
      the size too thick so you could water it down right, never risking
      that it came out too thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you
      do things like marble really shallow so the pattern swims around less.
      There really is a solution to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit
      of fiddling with. Look on it as fun experimenting.
      >
      > Iris Nevins
      > www.marblingpaper.com
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
      > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
      >
      >
      > Iris and Gretchen,
      >
      > I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
      > washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
      > just tossed.
      >
      > We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.
      >
      > The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
      > weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
      > heat on, AC the next.
      >
      > I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
      > expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
      > in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
      > morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
      > etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
      > much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
      > workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
      > shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
      > simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
      > I'm no Galen.
      >
      > I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
      > making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.
      >
      > Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and
      inspiration.
      > Have a great weekend,
      > Dnai
      >
      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
      "irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
      > cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
      > cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
      > molded on me in the summer.
      > >
      > > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
      > bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
      > adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
      > it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
      > chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
      > having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
      > it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
      > >
      > > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
      > About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
      > papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
      > Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
      > same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
      > also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
      > winter for me.
      > >
      > > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
      > effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
      > it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
      > stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
      > >
      > > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
      > paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
      > which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
      > actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
      > so it come up duller.
      > >
      > > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never
      know!
      > >
      > > Iris Nevins
      > >
      www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: gretchen
      vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
      > > To:
      Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>

      > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
      > >
      > >
      > > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
      > broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
      > water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
      > into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
      > humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
      > water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
      > year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
      > the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
      > since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
      > to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
      > vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
      > >
      > > spurioussignals
      <mercurial@<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@<mailto:mercurial>@...>>
      wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • scorpion1y6
      Hi Dani, I have also taken Galen s class, first a year ago, and repeated last month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn t a problem for
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 21, 2007
        Hi Dani,

        I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
        month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
        problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
        products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
        of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
        stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
        thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
        what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
        crackled everywhere.

        When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
        and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
        just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
        He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
        have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
        for washing. Much better!

        I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
        buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
        given me results as nice as Galen's products.

        Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
        seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
        do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
        heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
        too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
        believe I have any problems with this.

        Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
        I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.

        Vickie
      • irisnevins
        Yup...alum in the tray will do that! Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but works! Iris Nevins
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 21, 2007
          Yup...alum in the tray will do that!

          Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but works!

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


          Hi Dani,

          I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
          month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
          problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
          products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
          of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
          stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
          thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
          what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
          crackled everywhere.

          When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
          and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
          just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
          He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
          have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
          for washing. Much better!

          I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
          buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
          given me results as nice as Galen's products.

          Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
          seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
          do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
          heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
          too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
          believe I have any problems with this.

          Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
          I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.

          Vickie




          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • susanne martin
          I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text? Thanks, Susanne
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
            I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a
            lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text?

            Thanks,
            Susanne


            >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
            >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
            >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:42:59 -0400
            >
            >Yup...alum in the tray will do that!
            >
            >Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but
            >works!
            >
            >Iris Nevins
            >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
            > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
            >
            >
            > Hi Dani,
            >
            > I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
            > month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
            > problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
            > products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
            > of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
            > stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
            > thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
            > what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
            > crackled everywhere.
            >
            > When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
            > and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
            > just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
            > He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
            > have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
            > for washing. Much better!
            >
            > I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
            > buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
            > given me results as nice as Galen's products.
            >
            > Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
            > seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
            > do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
            > heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
            > too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
            > believe I have any problems with this.
            >
            > Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
            > I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.
            >
            > Vickie
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            _________________________________________________________________
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          • julieann.stella
            Hi, Dani! You ve gotten a lot of great advice here from people much more experienced than I, but I thought I d offer one little thing to try...you mentioned
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
              Hi, Dani! You've gotten a lot of great advice here from people much more experienced
              than I, but I thought I'd offer one little thing to try...you mentioned that you are using your
              carrageenan size straight from the fridge. You might try warming it to room temp first, if
              you're not already doing that.

              Best of luck to you! It stinks when you go through all the preparation and then have
              technical problems at the tray. I am so impatient with the technical stuff. Sometimes, I
              solve my problems with chocolate, HGTV and sulking.

              :)
              Julie

              www.lostmymarbles.etsy.com

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "spurioussignals" <mercurial@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello to all,
              >
              > I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
              > Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
              > in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
              > and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
              > a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
              > some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
              > site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty with.
              >
              > My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
              > I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
              > the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
              > straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
              > but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
              > happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
              > add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
              > colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
              > don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
              > light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
              > consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
              > close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
              > saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
              > pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.
              >
              > Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
              > clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
              > to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
              > circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
              > center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
              > cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
              > so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
              > the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
              > done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
              > compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
              > dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
              > am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
              > temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.
              >
              >
              > Does anyone have any ideas?
              > Thank you in advance.
              >
              > Dani
              >
            • irisnevins
              I get it from Atlantic Papers in Pennsylvania. You have to buy a lot in bulk, I sell tubes of 25 sheets at my website. Iris Nevins
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                I get it from Atlantic Papers in Pennsylvania. You have to buy a lot in bulk, I sell tubes of 25 sheets at my website.

                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: susanne martin<mailto:alavee15@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 9:12 AM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


                I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a
                lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text?

                Thanks,
                Susanne


                >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>
                >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:42:59 -0400
                >
                >Yup...alum in the tray will do that!
                >
                >Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but
                >works!
                >
                >Iris Nevins
                >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>>
                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
                > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                >
                >
                > Hi Dani,
                >
                > I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                > month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                > problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                > products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                > of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                > stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                > thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                > what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                > crackled everywhere.
                >
                > When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                > and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                > just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                > He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                > have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                > for washing. Much better!
                >
                > I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                > buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                > given me results as nice as Galen's products.
                >
                > Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                > seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                > do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                > heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                > too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                > believe I have any problems with this.
                >
                > Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                > I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.
                >
                > Vickie
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
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                Yahoo! Groups Links





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dave Allen
                Dani, The brass edged boards are for pressing books. That puts the groove at the spine and helps adhere the hinge. Normally one doesn t press them together
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                  Dani,
                  The brass edged boards are for pressing books. That puts the groove at
                  the spine and helps adhere the hinge. Normally one doesn't press them
                  together without enough between them to keep the brass edges from
                  touching. They will make a cracking noise, however, if they are
                  varnished plywood and haven't been pressed for a while.
                  Dave Allen


                  spurioussignals wrote:
                  > When I tightened the press down it made a cracking noise so it seemed
                  > like a good time to stop;-) I think I need different boards for this
                  > purpose the ones that came with the press have brass edges and I am
                  > afraid of damaging them.
                  >


                  --
                  Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                  840 Snowdrop Ave. Victoria BC V8Z 2N4
                  (250)888-9380 http://www.Bookbinder.ca
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