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Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions

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  • irisnevins
    Hi again... First.... maybe the ziplocks acted as a greenhouse and humidified the alumed paper? Just stack them under boards or in a press in under 55% humid
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
      Hi again... First.... maybe the ziplocks acted as a greenhouse and humidified the alumed paper? Just stack them under boards or in a press in under 55% humid room, or move them somewhere dry. It's a myth in my experience.... if kept dry the papers last indefinitely. I have kept several batches for many years to test that. Keep them dry, forget the ziplocks. Sometimes people make marbling too hard.

      I like watercolor much better and only use acrylic for fabric. Then again I need an old style look for the work I do and use what "they" used long ago.

      Try a new tube of the same paint, different lot if you can check. You'll get there.

      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:52 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


      Hello Iris,

      Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly.

      I just took a look at your page and your papers are beautiful! I would
      love to try watercolor marbling but I am determined to get Acrylics
      down first.

      I am using the texoprint paper that Galen recommends and it was the
      paper I used in his workshop with good results. I would like to try
      other papers as soon as I get the basic process down.

      I forgot to mention that the paper I alumed was dried and then pressed
      in this monster 1,500 lb. standing press that I bought on ebay for
      $9.95 + the $80.00 to ship it. (I am just tickled pink about that) I
      have never pressed paper before but followed the directions for dry
      pressing in The Complete Book of Papermaking by Joseph Asuncion. I
      don't think I put enough pressure on it or left it long enough. It did
      not seem to make much of a difference and still had some wrinkles.
      When I tightened the press down it made a cracking noise so it seemed
      like a good time to stop;-) I think I need different boards for this
      purpose the ones that came with the press have brass edges and I am
      afraid of damaging them. After pressing for about 24 hours I put the
      paper in the zip locks, I was told that once it sits out a couple days
      the mordant's ability to hold the paint decreases. I don't think that
      was the problem, The paint did not slide off when I rinsed. But, I
      will try aluming again and printing soon after dry, that also makes
      since because that is what we did in class and the colors were much
      brighter

      The Utrecht paints are what Galen recommends and, it is actually
      the 4th or 5th color application, or the newest that is crackling. The
      same color but older applications or outer rings that have been on the
      size the longest, are fine. Could it have something to do with the
      color being more compressed ? It seems to me that is the only other
      variable other than the length of time exposed to the air and it is
      not the older applications that are crazing. It is the opposite.

      I did just look at the jars of pigments that I mixed, and there does
      seem to be some graininess to those colors that I have had the most
      difficulty with ( Need glasses to see it)

      So, Thank you, you must be right about it not being ground finely
      enough. Still, it is strange that only the later applications
      separate. I think I will contact Utrecht now that I have some idea of
      the cause. I would really like to make these paints work, both Loni, my
      classmate and I have spent a small fortune on these paints, we each
      purchased one of almost every color in the 5 oz tubes.

      I will try monitoring the humidity more carefully and I will also try
      the photoflo you suggested. Thank you again:-)

      One more question If I may. Can you tell me a source for real broom
      straw? Is that what you use? I am not crazy about these plastic
      things, if you wash them enough to get the paint off they fray and
      fuzz terribly and the fuzz gets in the paint and flies around and
      lands on the size.

      Thank you again for all of your help. I am going to recommend that
      Loni post her questions if she is still having difficulty.

      Regards,
      Dani Whipple





      In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wow... that's a lot of potential problem areas.
      >
      > First, I never used Utrectht but in my experience I have never had
      ox-gall have much if any effect on acrylics. I have had to use
      something detergent based such as PhotoFlo veru diluted.
      >
      > Acrylic has a tendency to surface dry and crackle, what you may call
      grainy, if left on the size too long, which could be why the first,
      earliest color, and on the size the longest does this. It could be the
      grind of the pigment too. You also need to use pigments compatible
      with marbling processes. It's not just all about color charts and
      pretty colors. Some, actually many, pigments/paints do not work or
      even if they do can conflict with each other. Stick with what
      experienced marblers use. If this is recommended by Galen, it could
      also be a bad batch of the paint that was not ground well enough.
      >
      > I have only been ever able to marble papers that are alumed a few
      days ahead if they are totally dry. If kept in the bags the alum has
      always tended to negate for me, leaving pale colors on paper, while
      bright on the size. or they rinse off.
      >
      > try drying the paper you alum by hanging on a line in a room 55%
      humidity or less. Let it hang overnight. weigh it under boards and
      keep the room that humidity or less. Things may work better. Contrary
      to what other marblers say, I prefer the air more dry for any and all
      steps of the marbling, that's just me, I am self taught, but have done
      this for 29 years with my methods and this is the ONLY way the
      pre-alumed papers have ever worked for me.
      >
      > Also, your paper may be repelling color. if it is a modern American
      printing paper, or even something form an art store it may be so
      oversaturated with Calcium Carbonate, that it prevents the colors from
      taking. try Canson, which generally works. Try drying the alumed
      paper, see if this helps.
      >
      > Iris Nevins
      > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial>@...>
      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
      > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:00 PM
      > Subject: [Marbling] Introduction and questions
      >
      >
      > Hello to all,
      >
      > I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
      > Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
      > in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
      > and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
      > a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
      > some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
      > site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty
      with.
      >
      > My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
      > I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
      > the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
      > straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
      > but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
      > happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
      > add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
      > colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
      > don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
      > light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
      > consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
      > close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
      > saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
      > pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.
      >
      > Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
      > clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
      > to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
      > circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
      > center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
      > cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
      > so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
      > the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
      > done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
      > compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
      > dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
      > am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
      > temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.
      >
      >
      > Does anyone have any ideas?
      > Thank you in advance.
      >
      > Dani
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >




      Yahoo! Groups Links





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • gretchen vansant
      Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my broom brushes from brooms I cut them soak them several times in water to get any processed
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
        Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com

        spurioussignals <mercurial@...> wrote:



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • irisnevins
        Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I cut them off and tie
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
          Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always molded on me in the summer.

          Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.

          I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling. About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days. Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry winter for me.

          Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.

          Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface, which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper, so it come up duller.

          try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!

          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


          Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com

          spurioussignals <mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial@...>> wrote:



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • spurioussignals
          Iris and Gretchen, I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
            Iris and Gretchen,

            I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
            washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
            just tossed.

            We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.

            The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
            weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
            heat on, AC the next.

            I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
            expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
            in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
            morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
            etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
            much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
            workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
            shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
            simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
            I'm no Galen.

            I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
            making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.

            Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and inspiration.
            Have a great weekend,
            Dnai

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
            >
            > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
            cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
            cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
            molded on me in the summer.
            >
            > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
            bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
            adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
            it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
            chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
            having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
            it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
            >
            > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
            About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
            papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
            Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
            same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
            also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
            winter for me.
            >
            > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
            effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
            it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
            stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
            >
            > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
            paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
            which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
            actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
            so it come up duller.
            >
            > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
            >
            > Iris Nevins
            > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
            >
            >
            > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
            broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
            water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
            into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
            humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
            water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
            year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
            the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
            since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
            to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
            vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
            >
            > spurioussignals <mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial@...>> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • irisnevins
            You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days. Not to say you go back
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
              You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.

              Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you have to keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the morning will be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will with patience get to the point where you know what to do.

              Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water or additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches of the dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy did we have troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making the size too thick so you could water it down right, never risking that it came out too thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you do things like marble really shallow so the pattern swims around less. There really is a solution to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling with. Look on it as fun experimenting.

              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


              Iris and Gretchen,

              I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
              washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
              just tossed.

              We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.

              The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
              weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
              heat on, AC the next.

              I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
              expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
              in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
              morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
              etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
              much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
              workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
              shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
              simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
              I'm no Galen.

              I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
              making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.

              Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and inspiration.
              Have a great weekend,
              Dnai

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
              >
              > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
              cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
              cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
              molded on me in the summer.
              >
              > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
              bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
              adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
              it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
              chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
              having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
              it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
              >
              > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
              About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
              papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
              Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
              same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
              also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
              winter for me.
              >
              > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
              effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
              it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
              stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
              >
              > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
              paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
              which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
              actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
              so it come up duller.
              >
              > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
              >
              > Iris Nevins
              > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
              > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
              > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
              >
              >
              > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
              broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
              water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
              into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
              humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
              water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
              year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
              the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
              since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
              to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
              vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
              >
              > spurioussignals <mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial>@...>> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              Yahoo! Groups Links





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Thomas D' Aquin
              I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard of the word marbling at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard
                of the word
                "marbling" at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging using
                oil based enamels.
                It was nt till I en countered the marblin group o n the net that I started
                to thicken my
                water in order to make more complicated designs. I am referring to the 40's
                wbhen I first made
                some very primitive designs. In tnhe 60's I worked as a
                demonsrtrater-salesman forf a small company called RAINBOW ART COLORS based
                in orlan do, fla. we sold kits containi ng 6 on e quarter oz bottles of
                oil color plus in structions. price $3.00 or 2 for 5. they went oujt of
                busi ness in the 80's as travelli ng expen ses becasme prohibitive for
                thbeir agen ts. the on ly additive we used was 20 mule twam borax, which I
                still use. Tomas D'Aquin


                >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
                >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:22:51 -0400
                >
                >You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it
                >run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.
                >
                >Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you have to
                >keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the morning will
                >be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will with patience get
                >to the point where you know what to do.
                >
                >Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water or
                >additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches of the
                >dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy did we have
                >troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making the size too
                >thick so you could water it down right, never risking that it came out too
                >thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you do things like marble
                >really shallow so the pattern swims around less. There really is a solution
                >to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling with. Look on it as
                >fun experimenting.
                >
                >Iris Nevins
                >www.marblingpaper.com
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
                > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                >
                >
                > Iris and Gretchen,
                >
                > I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                > washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                > just tossed.
                >
                > We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.
                >
                > The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                > weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                > heat on, AC the next.
                >
                > I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                > expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                > in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                > morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                > etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                > much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                > workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                > shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                > simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                > I'm no Galen.
                >
                > I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                > making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.
                >
                > Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and
                >inspiration.
                > Have a great weekend,
                > Dnai
                >
                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
                >"irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                > cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                > cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                > molded on me in the summer.
                > >
                > > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                > bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                > adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                > it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                > chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                > having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                > it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                > >
                > > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                > About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                > papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                > Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                > same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                > also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                > winter for me.
                > >
                > > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                > effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                > it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                > stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                > >
                > > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                > paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                > which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                > actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                > so it come up duller.
                > >
                > > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
                > >
                > > Iris Nevins
                > >
                >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: gretchen
                >vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
                > > To:
                >Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                > >
                > >
                > > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                > broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                > water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                > into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                > humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                > water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                > year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                > the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                > since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                > to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                > vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                > >
                > > spurioussignals
                ><mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial>@...>>
                >wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
                Download Messenger. Join the i�m Initiative. Help make a difference today.
                http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
              • Thomas D' Aquin
                I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard of the word marbling at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                  I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard
                  of the word
                  "marbling" at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging using
                  oil based enamels.
                  It was nt till I en countered the marblin group o n the net that I started
                  to thicken my
                  water in order to make more complicated designs. I am referring to the 40's
                  wbhen I first made
                  some very primitive designs. In tnhe 60's I worked as a
                  demonsrtrater-salesman forf a small company called RAINBOW ART COLORS based
                  in orlan do, fla. we sold kits containi ng 6 on e quarter oz bottles of
                  oil color plus in structions. price $3.00 or 2 for 5. they went oujt of
                  busi ness in the 80's as travelli ng expen ses becasme prohibitive for
                  thbeir agen ts. the on ly additive we used was 20 mule twam borax, which I
                  still use. Tomas D'Aquin


                  >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
                  >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                  >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:22:51 -0400
                  >
                  >You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it
                  >run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.
                  >
                  >Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you have to
                  >keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the morning will
                  >be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will with patience get
                  >to the point where you know what to do.
                  >
                  >Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water or
                  >additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches of the
                  >dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy did we have
                  >troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making the size too
                  >thick so you could water it down right, never risking that it came out too
                  >thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you do things like marble
                  >really shallow so the pattern swims around less. There really is a solution
                  >to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling with. Look on it as
                  >fun experimenting.
                  >
                  >Iris Nevins
                  >www.marblingpaper.com
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
                  > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                  >
                  >
                  > Iris and Gretchen,
                  >
                  > I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                  > washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                  > just tossed.
                  >
                  > We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.
                  >
                  > The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                  > weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                  > heat on, AC the next.
                  >
                  > I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                  > expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                  > in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                  > morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                  > etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                  > much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                  > workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                  > shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                  > simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                  > I'm no Galen.
                  >
                  > I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                  > making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.
                  >
                  > Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and
                  >inspiration.
                  > Have a great weekend,
                  > Dnai
                  >
                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
                  >"irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                  > cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                  > cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                  > molded on me in the summer.
                  > >
                  > > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                  > bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                  > adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                  > it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                  > chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                  > having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                  > it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                  > >
                  > > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                  > About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                  > papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                  > Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                  > same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                  > also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                  > winter for me.
                  > >
                  > > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                  > effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                  > it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                  > stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                  > >
                  > > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                  > paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                  > which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                  > actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                  > so it come up duller.
                  > >
                  > > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
                  > >
                  > > Iris Nevins
                  > >
                  >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: gretchen
                  >vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
                  > > To:
                  >Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                  > broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                  > water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                  > into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                  > humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                  > water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                  > year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                  > the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                  > since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                  > to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                  > vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                  > >
                  > > spurioussignals
                  ><mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial>@...>>
                  >wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Download Messenger. Join the i�m Initiative. Help make a difference today.
                  http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
                • spurioussignals
                  ... This is the original instant gratification QUEEN you are talking to. Sigh. I expect that everything will cooperate in my universe and work perfectly the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                    :-O A full year!
                    This is the original instant gratification QUEEN you are talking to.
                    Sigh. I expect that everything will cooperate in my universe and work
                    perfectly the very first time, lol

                    I am supposed to be working on patience so I guess that is why I was
                    sent in the direction of marbling, the universe is playing some kind
                    or sick cruel joke;-)
                    I do love it though, so I am determined to get good at it.
                    I have to. I am so in love with the paper and purchased quite a lot of
                    Galen's but have not been able to bring myself to cut it, it is just
                    so beautiful. I know that I will have to learn to do it myself if I
                    want to be able to USE any marbled paper in book projects.

                    When I got my first apartment in the mid 70's I started making
                    handmade paper, it was just me so that was all I used my kitchen for,
                    never even bought pots and pans. Back then I didn't know anyone who
                    was making paper and there was no Internet, so I did a lot of
                    experimenting and that was the fun of it, just seeing what would
                    happen. I Need to get that spirit of exploration back, that's what I
                    am lacking! Too many years of working as an insurance agent (and
                    hating it) It really kills that child like enthusiasm for making stuff
                    for the pleasure of seeing how it comes out, Not striving for or
                    demanding perfection every time.
                    (and at least I don't have to boil seaweed, that has got to be a good
                    thing!)

                    So thanks for the new attitude. And for sharing your hard earned
                    knowledge, not everyone is so willing to mentor a novice, and I swear,
                    cross my heart that I have read tons of sites and have Diane
                    Maurer-Mathisson's Ultimate book.. But it doesn't have much on acrylic
                    marbling. And, of course I have Galen's book. I have another that I
                    will not mention the author but it leaves a lot to be desired.

                    When I learned to clone Orchids from stem tissue, there was one
                    Russian site that had a primitive set up and instructions, not
                    speaking Russian made it difficult to glean a lot of info but I got
                    the gist, no one else would share. So if you want to clone orchids or
                    do woodcarving or stained glass, or welding or use a plasma cutter,
                    metal etching, calligraphy, clay tiles, slumped glass, antique
                    restoration, raised gold gilding.... I'm your girl!
                    (Never mind, I forgot you make that wonderful medieval Jewelry)
                    .......There's still Orchids!

                    Sorry, I am a terrible rambler.

                    Dani

                    PS, tried to buys some of your paper, but it was storming here last
                    night and playing havoc with my connection, I'll try again Sunday,
                    Or... you could just mail me an invoice for one Blue Spanish Sunspot,
                    one Tortoiseshell, and one Moire (any color on the last one, pick your
                    favorite) I don't have any watercolor marbled paper. They will go into
                    the collection of papers that are not to be cut, lol


                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and
                    have it run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.
                    >
                    > Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you
                    have to keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the
                    morning will be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will
                    with patience get to the point where you know what to do.
                    >
                    > Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water
                    or additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches
                    of the dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy
                    did we have troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making
                    the size too thick so you could water it down right, never risking
                    that it came out too thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you
                    do things like marble really shallow so the pattern swims around less.
                    There really is a solution to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit
                    of fiddling with. Look on it as fun experimenting.
                    >
                    > Iris Nevins
                    > www.marblingpaper.com
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
                    > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
                    > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                    >
                    >
                    > Iris and Gretchen,
                    >
                    > I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                    > washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                    > just tossed.
                    >
                    > We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.
                    >
                    > The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                    > weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                    > heat on, AC the next.
                    >
                    > I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                    > expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                    > in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                    > morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                    > etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                    > much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                    > workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                    > shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                    > simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                    > I'm no Galen.
                    >
                    > I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                    > making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.
                    >
                    > Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and
                    inspiration.
                    > Have a great weekend,
                    > Dnai
                    >
                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
                    "irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                    > cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                    > cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                    > molded on me in the summer.
                    > >
                    > > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                    > bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                    > adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                    > it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                    > chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                    > having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                    > it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                    > >
                    > > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                    > About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                    > papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                    > Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                    > same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                    > also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                    > winter for me.
                    > >
                    > > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                    > effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                    > it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                    > stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                    > >
                    > > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                    > paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                    > which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                    > actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                    > so it come up duller.
                    > >
                    > > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never
                    know!
                    > >
                    > > Iris Nevins
                    > >
                    www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: gretchen
                    vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
                    > > To:
                    Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>

                    > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                    > broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                    > water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                    > into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                    > humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                    > water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                    > year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                    > the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                    > since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                    > to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                    > vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                    > >
                    > > spurioussignals
                    <mercurial@<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@<mailto:mercurial>@...>>
                    wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • scorpion1y6
                    Hi Dani, I have also taken Galen s class, first a year ago, and repeated last month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn t a problem for
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 21, 2007
                      Hi Dani,

                      I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                      month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                      problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                      products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                      of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                      stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                      thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                      what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                      crackled everywhere.

                      When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                      and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                      just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                      He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                      have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                      for washing. Much better!

                      I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                      buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                      given me results as nice as Galen's products.

                      Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                      seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                      do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                      heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                      too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                      believe I have any problems with this.

                      Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                      I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.

                      Vickie
                    • irisnevins
                      Yup...alum in the tray will do that! Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but works! Iris Nevins
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 21, 2007
                        Yup...alum in the tray will do that!

                        Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but works!

                        Iris Nevins
                        www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>
                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
                        Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


                        Hi Dani,

                        I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                        month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                        problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                        products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                        of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                        stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                        thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                        what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                        crackled everywhere.

                        When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                        and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                        just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                        He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                        have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                        for washing. Much better!

                        I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                        buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                        given me results as nice as Galen's products.

                        Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                        seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                        do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                        heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                        too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                        believe I have any problems with this.

                        Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                        I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.

                        Vickie




                        Yahoo! Groups Links





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • susanne martin
                        I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text? Thanks, Susanne
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                          I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a
                          lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text?

                          Thanks,
                          Susanne


                          >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
                          >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                          >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:42:59 -0400
                          >
                          >Yup...alum in the tray will do that!
                          >
                          >Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but
                          >works!
                          >
                          >Iris Nevins
                          >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>
                          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
                          > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Dani,
                          >
                          > I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                          > month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                          > problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                          > products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                          > of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                          > stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                          > thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                          > what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                          > crackled everywhere.
                          >
                          > When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                          > and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                          > just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                          > He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                          > have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                          > for washing. Much better!
                          >
                          > I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                          > buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                          > given me results as nice as Galen's products.
                          >
                          > Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                          > seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                          > do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                          > heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                          > too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                          > believe I have any problems with this.
                          >
                          > Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                          > I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.
                          >
                          > Vickie
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >

                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings
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                        • julieann.stella
                          Hi, Dani! You ve gotten a lot of great advice here from people much more experienced than I, but I thought I d offer one little thing to try...you mentioned
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                            Hi, Dani! You've gotten a lot of great advice here from people much more experienced
                            than I, but I thought I'd offer one little thing to try...you mentioned that you are using your
                            carrageenan size straight from the fridge. You might try warming it to room temp first, if
                            you're not already doing that.

                            Best of luck to you! It stinks when you go through all the preparation and then have
                            technical problems at the tray. I am so impatient with the technical stuff. Sometimes, I
                            solve my problems with chocolate, HGTV and sulking.

                            :)
                            Julie

                            www.lostmymarbles.etsy.com

                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "spurioussignals" <mercurial@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello to all,
                            >
                            > I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
                            > Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
                            > in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
                            > and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
                            > a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
                            > some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
                            > site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty with.
                            >
                            > My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
                            > I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
                            > the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
                            > straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
                            > but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
                            > happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
                            > add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
                            > colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
                            > don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
                            > light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
                            > consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
                            > close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
                            > saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
                            > pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.
                            >
                            > Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
                            > clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
                            > to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
                            > circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
                            > center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
                            > cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
                            > so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
                            > the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
                            > done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
                            > compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
                            > dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
                            > am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
                            > temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.
                            >
                            >
                            > Does anyone have any ideas?
                            > Thank you in advance.
                            >
                            > Dani
                            >
                          • irisnevins
                            I get it from Atlantic Papers in Pennsylvania. You have to buy a lot in bulk, I sell tubes of 25 sheets at my website. Iris Nevins
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                              I get it from Atlantic Papers in Pennsylvania. You have to buy a lot in bulk, I sell tubes of 25 sheets at my website.

                              Iris Nevins
                              www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: susanne martin<mailto:alavee15@...>
                              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 9:12 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


                              I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a
                              lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text?

                              Thanks,
                              Susanne


                              >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>
                              >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                              >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                              >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                              >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:42:59 -0400
                              >
                              >Yup...alum in the tray will do that!
                              >
                              >Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but
                              >works!
                              >
                              >Iris Nevins
                              >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>>
                              > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                              > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
                              > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Dani,
                              >
                              > I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                              > month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                              > problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                              > products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                              > of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                              > stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                              > thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                              > what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                              > crackled everywhere.
                              >
                              > When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                              > and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                              > just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                              > He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                              > have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                              > for washing. Much better!
                              >
                              > I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                              > buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                              > given me results as nice as Galen's products.
                              >
                              > Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                              > seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                              > do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                              > heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                              > too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                              > believe I have any problems with this.
                              >
                              > Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                              > I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.
                              >
                              > Vickie
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >

                              _________________________________________________________________
                              Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings
                              https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117<https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117>




                              Yahoo! Groups Links





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Dave Allen
                              Dani, The brass edged boards are for pressing books. That puts the groove at the spine and helps adhere the hinge. Normally one doesn t press them together
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                                Dani,
                                The brass edged boards are for pressing books. That puts the groove at
                                the spine and helps adhere the hinge. Normally one doesn't press them
                                together without enough between them to keep the brass edges from
                                touching. They will make a cracking noise, however, if they are
                                varnished plywood and haven't been pressed for a while.
                                Dave Allen


                                spurioussignals wrote:
                                > When I tightened the press down it made a cracking noise so it seemed
                                > like a good time to stop;-) I think I need different boards for this
                                > purpose the ones that came with the press have brass edges and I am
                                > afraid of damaging them.
                                >


                                --
                                Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                                840 Snowdrop Ave. Victoria BC V8Z 2N4
                                (250)888-9380 http://www.Bookbinder.ca
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