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Introduction and questions

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  • spurioussignals
    Hello to all, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop in
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
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      Hello to all,

      I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
      Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
      in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
      and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
      a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
      some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
      site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty with.

      My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
      I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
      the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
      straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
      but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
      happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
      add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
      colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
      don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
      light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
      consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
      close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
      saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
      pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.

      Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
      clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
      to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
      circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
      center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
      cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
      so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
      the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
      done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
      compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
      dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
      am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
      temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.


      Does anyone have any ideas?
      Thank you in advance.

      Dani
    • irisnevins
      Wow... that s a lot of potential problem areas. First, I never used Utrectht but in my experience I have never had ox-gall have much if any effect on acrylics.
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
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        Wow... that's a lot of potential problem areas.

        First, I never used Utrectht but in my experience I have never had ox-gall have much if any effect on acrylics. I have had to use something detergent based such as PhotoFlo veru diluted.

        Acrylic has a tendency to surface dry and crackle, what you may call grainy, if left on the size too long, which could be why the first, earliest color, and on the size the longest does this. It could be the grind of the pigment too. You also need to use pigments compatible with marbling processes. It's not just all about color charts and pretty colors. Some, actually many, pigments/paints do not work or even if they do can conflict with each other. Stick with what experienced marblers use. If this is recommended by Galen, it could also be a bad batch of the paint that was not ground well enough.

        I have only been ever able to marble papers that are alumed a few days ahead if they are totally dry. If kept in the bags the alum has always tended to negate for me, leaving pale colors on paper, while bright on the size. or they rinse off.

        try drying the paper you alum by hanging on a line in a room 55% humidity or less. Let it hang overnight. weigh it under boards and keep the room that humidity or less. Things may work better. Contrary to what other marblers say, I prefer the air more dry for any and all steps of the marbling, that's just me, I am self taught, but have done this for 29 years with my methods and this is the ONLY way the pre-alumed papers have ever worked for me.

        Also, your paper may be repelling color. if it is a modern American printing paper, or even something form an art store it may be so oversaturated with Calcium Carbonate, that it prevents the colors from taking. try Canson, which generally works. Try drying the alumed paper, see if this helps.

        Iris Nevins
        www.marblingpaper.com
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:00 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] Introduction and questions


        Hello to all,

        I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
        Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
        in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
        and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
        a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
        some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
        site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty with.

        My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
        I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
        the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
        straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
        but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
        happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
        add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
        colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
        don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
        light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
        consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
        close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
        saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
        pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.

        Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
        clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
        to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
        circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
        center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
        cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
        so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
        the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
        done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
        compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
        dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
        am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
        temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.


        Does anyone have any ideas?
        Thank you in advance.

        Dani




        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • spurioussignals
        Hello Iris, Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. I just took a look at your page and your papers are beautiful! I would love to try watercolor
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Iris,

          Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly.

          I just took a look at your page and your papers are beautiful! I would
          love to try watercolor marbling but I am determined to get Acrylics
          down first.

          I am using the texoprint paper that Galen recommends and it was the
          paper I used in his workshop with good results. I would like to try
          other papers as soon as I get the basic process down.

          I forgot to mention that the paper I alumed was dried and then pressed
          in this monster 1,500 lb. standing press that I bought on ebay for
          $9.95 + the $80.00 to ship it. (I am just tickled pink about that) I
          have never pressed paper before but followed the directions for dry
          pressing in The Complete Book of Papermaking by Joseph Asuncion. I
          don't think I put enough pressure on it or left it long enough. It did
          not seem to make much of a difference and still had some wrinkles.
          When I tightened the press down it made a cracking noise so it seemed
          like a good time to stop;-) I think I need different boards for this
          purpose the ones that came with the press have brass edges and I am
          afraid of damaging them. After pressing for about 24 hours I put the
          paper in the zip locks, I was told that once it sits out a couple days
          the mordant's ability to hold the paint decreases. I don't think that
          was the problem, The paint did not slide off when I rinsed. But, I
          will try aluming again and printing soon after dry, that also makes
          since because that is what we did in class and the colors were much
          brighter

          The Utrecht paints are what Galen recommends and, it is actually
          the 4th or 5th color application, or the newest that is crackling. The
          same color but older applications or outer rings that have been on the
          size the longest, are fine. Could it have something to do with the
          color being more compressed ? It seems to me that is the only other
          variable other than the length of time exposed to the air and it is
          not the older applications that are crazing. It is the opposite.

          I did just look at the jars of pigments that I mixed, and there does
          seem to be some graininess to those colors that I have had the most
          difficulty with ( Need glasses to see it)

          So, Thank you, you must be right about it not being ground finely
          enough. Still, it is strange that only the later applications
          separate. I think I will contact Utrecht now that I have some idea of
          the cause. I would really like to make these paints work, both Loni, my
          classmate and I have spent a small fortune on these paints, we each
          purchased one of almost every color in the 5 oz tubes.

          I will try monitoring the humidity more carefully and I will also try
          the photoflo you suggested. Thank you again:-)

          One more question If I may. Can you tell me a source for real broom
          straw? Is that what you use? I am not crazy about these plastic
          things, if you wash them enough to get the paint off they fray and
          fuzz terribly and the fuzz gets in the paint and flies around and
          lands on the size.

          Thank you again for all of your help. I am going to recommend that
          Loni post her questions if she is still having difficulty.

          Regards,
          Dani Whipple





          In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
          >
          > Wow... that's a lot of potential problem areas.
          >
          > First, I never used Utrectht but in my experience I have never had
          ox-gall have much if any effect on acrylics. I have had to use
          something detergent based such as PhotoFlo veru diluted.
          >
          > Acrylic has a tendency to surface dry and crackle, what you may call
          grainy, if left on the size too long, which could be why the first,
          earliest color, and on the size the longest does this. It could be the
          grind of the pigment too. You also need to use pigments compatible
          with marbling processes. It's not just all about color charts and
          pretty colors. Some, actually many, pigments/paints do not work or
          even if they do can conflict with each other. Stick with what
          experienced marblers use. If this is recommended by Galen, it could
          also be a bad batch of the paint that was not ground well enough.
          >
          > I have only been ever able to marble papers that are alumed a few
          days ahead if they are totally dry. If kept in the bags the alum has
          always tended to negate for me, leaving pale colors on paper, while
          bright on the size. or they rinse off.
          >
          > try drying the paper you alum by hanging on a line in a room 55%
          humidity or less. Let it hang overnight. weigh it under boards and
          keep the room that humidity or less. Things may work better. Contrary
          to what other marblers say, I prefer the air more dry for any and all
          steps of the marbling, that's just me, I am self taught, but have done
          this for 29 years with my methods and this is the ONLY way the
          pre-alumed papers have ever worked for me.
          >
          > Also, your paper may be repelling color. if it is a modern American
          printing paper, or even something form an art store it may be so
          oversaturated with Calcium Carbonate, that it prevents the colors from
          taking. try Canson, which generally works. Try drying the alumed
          paper, see if this helps.
          >
          > Iris Nevins
          > www.marblingpaper.com
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:00 PM
          > Subject: [Marbling] Introduction and questions
          >
          >
          > Hello to all,
          >
          > I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
          > Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
          > in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
          > and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
          > a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
          > some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
          > site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty
          with.
          >
          > My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
          > I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
          > the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
          > straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
          > but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
          > happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
          > add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
          > colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
          > don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
          > light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
          > consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
          > close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
          > saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
          > pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.
          >
          > Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
          > clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
          > to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
          > circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
          > center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
          > cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
          > so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
          > the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
          > done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
          > compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
          > dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
          > am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
          > temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.
          >
          >
          > Does anyone have any ideas?
          > Thank you in advance.
          >
          > Dani
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • irisnevins
          Hi again... First.... maybe the ziplocks acted as a greenhouse and humidified the alumed paper? Just stack them under boards or in a press in under 55% humid
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi again... First.... maybe the ziplocks acted as a greenhouse and humidified the alumed paper? Just stack them under boards or in a press in under 55% humid room, or move them somewhere dry. It's a myth in my experience.... if kept dry the papers last indefinitely. I have kept several batches for many years to test that. Keep them dry, forget the ziplocks. Sometimes people make marbling too hard.

            I like watercolor much better and only use acrylic for fabric. Then again I need an old style look for the work I do and use what "they" used long ago.

            Try a new tube of the same paint, different lot if you can check. You'll get there.

            Iris Nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:52 PM
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


            Hello Iris,

            Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly.

            I just took a look at your page and your papers are beautiful! I would
            love to try watercolor marbling but I am determined to get Acrylics
            down first.

            I am using the texoprint paper that Galen recommends and it was the
            paper I used in his workshop with good results. I would like to try
            other papers as soon as I get the basic process down.

            I forgot to mention that the paper I alumed was dried and then pressed
            in this monster 1,500 lb. standing press that I bought on ebay for
            $9.95 + the $80.00 to ship it. (I am just tickled pink about that) I
            have never pressed paper before but followed the directions for dry
            pressing in The Complete Book of Papermaking by Joseph Asuncion. I
            don't think I put enough pressure on it or left it long enough. It did
            not seem to make much of a difference and still had some wrinkles.
            When I tightened the press down it made a cracking noise so it seemed
            like a good time to stop;-) I think I need different boards for this
            purpose the ones that came with the press have brass edges and I am
            afraid of damaging them. After pressing for about 24 hours I put the
            paper in the zip locks, I was told that once it sits out a couple days
            the mordant's ability to hold the paint decreases. I don't think that
            was the problem, The paint did not slide off when I rinsed. But, I
            will try aluming again and printing soon after dry, that also makes
            since because that is what we did in class and the colors were much
            brighter

            The Utrecht paints are what Galen recommends and, it is actually
            the 4th or 5th color application, or the newest that is crackling. The
            same color but older applications or outer rings that have been on the
            size the longest, are fine. Could it have something to do with the
            color being more compressed ? It seems to me that is the only other
            variable other than the length of time exposed to the air and it is
            not the older applications that are crazing. It is the opposite.

            I did just look at the jars of pigments that I mixed, and there does
            seem to be some graininess to those colors that I have had the most
            difficulty with ( Need glasses to see it)

            So, Thank you, you must be right about it not being ground finely
            enough. Still, it is strange that only the later applications
            separate. I think I will contact Utrecht now that I have some idea of
            the cause. I would really like to make these paints work, both Loni, my
            classmate and I have spent a small fortune on these paints, we each
            purchased one of almost every color in the 5 oz tubes.

            I will try monitoring the humidity more carefully and I will also try
            the photoflo you suggested. Thank you again:-)

            One more question If I may. Can you tell me a source for real broom
            straw? Is that what you use? I am not crazy about these plastic
            things, if you wash them enough to get the paint off they fray and
            fuzz terribly and the fuzz gets in the paint and flies around and
            lands on the size.

            Thank you again for all of your help. I am going to recommend that
            Loni post her questions if she is still having difficulty.

            Regards,
            Dani Whipple





            In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wow... that's a lot of potential problem areas.
            >
            > First, I never used Utrectht but in my experience I have never had
            ox-gall have much if any effect on acrylics. I have had to use
            something detergent based such as PhotoFlo veru diluted.
            >
            > Acrylic has a tendency to surface dry and crackle, what you may call
            grainy, if left on the size too long, which could be why the first,
            earliest color, and on the size the longest does this. It could be the
            grind of the pigment too. You also need to use pigments compatible
            with marbling processes. It's not just all about color charts and
            pretty colors. Some, actually many, pigments/paints do not work or
            even if they do can conflict with each other. Stick with what
            experienced marblers use. If this is recommended by Galen, it could
            also be a bad batch of the paint that was not ground well enough.
            >
            > I have only been ever able to marble papers that are alumed a few
            days ahead if they are totally dry. If kept in the bags the alum has
            always tended to negate for me, leaving pale colors on paper, while
            bright on the size. or they rinse off.
            >
            > try drying the paper you alum by hanging on a line in a room 55%
            humidity or less. Let it hang overnight. weigh it under boards and
            keep the room that humidity or less. Things may work better. Contrary
            to what other marblers say, I prefer the air more dry for any and all
            steps of the marbling, that's just me, I am self taught, but have done
            this for 29 years with my methods and this is the ONLY way the
            pre-alumed papers have ever worked for me.
            >
            > Also, your paper may be repelling color. if it is a modern American
            printing paper, or even something form an art store it may be so
            oversaturated with Calcium Carbonate, that it prevents the colors from
            taking. try Canson, which generally works. Try drying the alumed
            paper, see if this helps.
            >
            > Iris Nevins
            > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial>@...>
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
            > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:00 PM
            > Subject: [Marbling] Introduction and questions
            >
            >
            > Hello to all,
            >
            > I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
            > Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
            > in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
            > and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
            > a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
            > some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
            > site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty
            with.
            >
            > My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
            > I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
            > the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
            > straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
            > but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
            > happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
            > add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
            > colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
            > don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
            > light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
            > consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
            > close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
            > saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
            > pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.
            >
            > Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
            > clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
            > to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
            > circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
            > center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
            > cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
            > so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
            > the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
            > done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
            > compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
            > dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
            > am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
            > temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.
            >
            >
            > Does anyone have any ideas?
            > Thank you in advance.
            >
            > Dani
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >




            Yahoo! Groups Links





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • gretchen vansant
            Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my broom brushes from brooms I cut them soak them several times in water to get any processed
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com

              spurioussignals <mercurial@...> wrote:



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • irisnevins
              Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I cut them off and tie
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 19, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always molded on me in the summer.

                Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.

                I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling. About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days. Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry winter for me.

                Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.

                Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface, which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper, so it come up duller.

                try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!

                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


                Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com

                spurioussignals <mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial@...>> wrote:



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                Yahoo! Groups Links





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • spurioussignals
                Iris and Gretchen, I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Iris and Gretchen,

                  I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                  washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                  just tossed.

                  We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.

                  The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                  weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                  heat on, AC the next.

                  I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                  expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                  in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                  morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                  etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                  much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                  workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                  shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                  simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                  I'm no Galen.

                  I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                  making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.

                  Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and inspiration.
                  Have a great weekend,
                  Dnai

                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                  cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                  cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                  molded on me in the summer.
                  >
                  > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                  bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                  adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                  it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                  chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                  having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                  it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                  >
                  > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                  About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                  papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                  Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                  same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                  also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                  winter for me.
                  >
                  > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                  effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                  it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                  stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                  >
                  > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                  paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                  which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                  actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                  so it come up duller.
                  >
                  > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
                  >
                  > Iris Nevins
                  > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                  broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                  water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                  into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                  humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                  water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                  year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                  the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                  since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                  to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                  vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                  >
                  > spurioussignals <mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial@...>> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • irisnevins
                  You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days. Not to say you go back
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.

                    Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you have to keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the morning will be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will with patience get to the point where you know what to do.

                    Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water or additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches of the dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy did we have troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making the size too thick so you could water it down right, never risking that it came out too thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you do things like marble really shallow so the pattern swims around less. There really is a solution to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling with. Look on it as fun experimenting.

                    Iris Nevins
                    www.marblingpaper.com
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
                    Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


                    Iris and Gretchen,

                    I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                    washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                    just tossed.

                    We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.

                    The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                    weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                    heat on, AC the next.

                    I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                    expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                    in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                    morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                    etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                    much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                    workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                    shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                    simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                    I'm no Galen.

                    I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                    making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.

                    Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and inspiration.
                    Have a great weekend,
                    Dnai

                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                    cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                    cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                    molded on me in the summer.
                    >
                    > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                    bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                    adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                    it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                    chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                    having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                    it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                    >
                    > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                    About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                    papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                    Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                    same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                    also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                    winter for me.
                    >
                    > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                    effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                    it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                    stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                    >
                    > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                    paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                    which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                    actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                    so it come up duller.
                    >
                    > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
                    >
                    > Iris Nevins
                    > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
                    > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                    > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                    broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                    water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                    into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                    humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                    water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                    year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                    the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                    since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                    to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                    vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                    >
                    > spurioussignals <mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial>@...>> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >





                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Thomas D' Aquin
                    I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard of the word marbling at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard
                      of the word
                      "marbling" at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging using
                      oil based enamels.
                      It was nt till I en countered the marblin group o n the net that I started
                      to thicken my
                      water in order to make more complicated designs. I am referring to the 40's
                      wbhen I first made
                      some very primitive designs. In tnhe 60's I worked as a
                      demonsrtrater-salesman forf a small company called RAINBOW ART COLORS based
                      in orlan do, fla. we sold kits containi ng 6 on e quarter oz bottles of
                      oil color plus in structions. price $3.00 or 2 for 5. they went oujt of
                      busi ness in the 80's as travelli ng expen ses becasme prohibitive for
                      thbeir agen ts. the on ly additive we used was 20 mule twam borax, which I
                      still use. Tomas D'Aquin


                      >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
                      >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                      >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:22:51 -0400
                      >
                      >You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it
                      >run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.
                      >
                      >Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you have to
                      >keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the morning will
                      >be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will with patience get
                      >to the point where you know what to do.
                      >
                      >Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water or
                      >additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches of the
                      >dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy did we have
                      >troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making the size too
                      >thick so you could water it down right, never risking that it came out too
                      >thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you do things like marble
                      >really shallow so the pattern swims around less. There really is a solution
                      >to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling with. Look on it as
                      >fun experimenting.
                      >
                      >Iris Nevins
                      >www.marblingpaper.com
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
                      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
                      > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                      >
                      >
                      > Iris and Gretchen,
                      >
                      > I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                      > washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                      > just tossed.
                      >
                      > We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.
                      >
                      > The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                      > weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                      > heat on, AC the next.
                      >
                      > I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                      > expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                      > in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                      > morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                      > etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                      > much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                      > workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                      > shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                      > simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                      > I'm no Galen.
                      >
                      > I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                      > making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.
                      >
                      > Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and
                      >inspiration.
                      > Have a great weekend,
                      > Dnai
                      >
                      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
                      >"irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                      > cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                      > cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                      > molded on me in the summer.
                      > >
                      > > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                      > bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                      > adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                      > it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                      > chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                      > having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                      > it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                      > >
                      > > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                      > About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                      > papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                      > Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                      > same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                      > also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                      > winter for me.
                      > >
                      > > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                      > effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                      > it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                      > stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                      > >
                      > > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                      > paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                      > which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                      > actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                      > so it come up duller.
                      > >
                      > > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
                      > >
                      > > Iris Nevins
                      > >
                      >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: gretchen
                      >vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
                      > > To:
                      >Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                      > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                      > broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                      > water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                      > into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                      > humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                      > water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                      > year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                      > the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                      > since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                      > to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                      > vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                      > >
                      > > spurioussignals
                      ><mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial>@...>>
                      >wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >

                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Download Messenger. Join the i�m Initiative. Help make a difference today.
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                    • Thomas D' Aquin
                      I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard of the word marbling at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I too go back many, many, years. when I started marbling I had never eard
                        of the word
                        "marbling" at that time it was called spin painting or swirl paintging using
                        oil based enamels.
                        It was nt till I en countered the marblin group o n the net that I started
                        to thicken my
                        water in order to make more complicated designs. I am referring to the 40's
                        wbhen I first made
                        some very primitive designs. In tnhe 60's I worked as a
                        demonsrtrater-salesman forf a small company called RAINBOW ART COLORS based
                        in orlan do, fla. we sold kits containi ng 6 on e quarter oz bottles of
                        oil color plus in structions. price $3.00 or 2 for 5. they went oujt of
                        busi ness in the 80's as travelli ng expen ses becasme prohibitive for
                        thbeir agen ts. the on ly additive we used was 20 mule twam borax, which I
                        still use. Tomas D'Aquin


                        >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
                        >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                        >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:22:51 -0400
                        >
                        >You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and have it
                        >run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.
                        >
                        >Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you have to
                        >keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the morning will
                        >be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will with patience get
                        >to the point where you know what to do.
                        >
                        >Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water or
                        >additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches of the
                        >dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy did we have
                        >troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making the size too
                        >thick so you could water it down right, never risking that it came out too
                        >thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you do things like marble
                        >really shallow so the pattern swims around less. There really is a solution
                        >to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling with. Look on it as
                        >fun experimenting.
                        >
                        >Iris Nevins
                        >www.marblingpaper.com
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
                        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
                        > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                        >
                        >
                        > Iris and Gretchen,
                        >
                        > I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                        > washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                        > just tossed.
                        >
                        > We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.
                        >
                        > The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                        > weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                        > heat on, AC the next.
                        >
                        > I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                        > expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                        > in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                        > morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                        > etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                        > much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                        > workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                        > shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                        > simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                        > I'm no Galen.
                        >
                        > I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                        > making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.
                        >
                        > Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and
                        >inspiration.
                        > Have a great weekend,
                        > Dnai
                        >
                        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
                        >"irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                        > cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                        > cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                        > molded on me in the summer.
                        > >
                        > > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                        > bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                        > adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                        > it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                        > chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                        > having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                        > it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                        > >
                        > > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                        > About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                        > papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                        > Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                        > same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                        > also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                        > winter for me.
                        > >
                        > > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                        > effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                        > it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                        > stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                        > >
                        > > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                        > paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                        > which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                        > actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                        > so it come up duller.
                        > >
                        > > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never know!
                        > >
                        > > Iris Nevins
                        > >
                        >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: gretchen
                        >vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
                        > > To:
                        >Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                        > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                        > broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                        > water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                        > into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                        > humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                        > water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                        > year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                        > the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                        > since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                        > to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                        > vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                        > >
                        > > spurioussignals
                        ><mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@...<mailto:mercurial>@...>>
                        >wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

                        _________________________________________________________________
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                      • spurioussignals
                        ... This is the original instant gratification QUEEN you are talking to. Sigh. I expect that everything will cooperate in my universe and work perfectly the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 20, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          :-O A full year!
                          This is the original instant gratification QUEEN you are talking to.
                          Sigh. I expect that everything will cooperate in my universe and work
                          perfectly the very first time, lol

                          I am supposed to be working on patience so I guess that is why I was
                          sent in the direction of marbling, the universe is playing some kind
                          or sick cruel joke;-)
                          I do love it though, so I am determined to get good at it.
                          I have to. I am so in love with the paper and purchased quite a lot of
                          Galen's but have not been able to bring myself to cut it, it is just
                          so beautiful. I know that I will have to learn to do it myself if I
                          want to be able to USE any marbled paper in book projects.

                          When I got my first apartment in the mid 70's I started making
                          handmade paper, it was just me so that was all I used my kitchen for,
                          never even bought pots and pans. Back then I didn't know anyone who
                          was making paper and there was no Internet, so I did a lot of
                          experimenting and that was the fun of it, just seeing what would
                          happen. I Need to get that spirit of exploration back, that's what I
                          am lacking! Too many years of working as an insurance agent (and
                          hating it) It really kills that child like enthusiasm for making stuff
                          for the pleasure of seeing how it comes out, Not striving for or
                          demanding perfection every time.
                          (and at least I don't have to boil seaweed, that has got to be a good
                          thing!)

                          So thanks for the new attitude. And for sharing your hard earned
                          knowledge, not everyone is so willing to mentor a novice, and I swear,
                          cross my heart that I have read tons of sites and have Diane
                          Maurer-Mathisson's Ultimate book.. But it doesn't have much on acrylic
                          marbling. And, of course I have Galen's book. I have another that I
                          will not mention the author but it leaves a lot to be desired.

                          When I learned to clone Orchids from stem tissue, there was one
                          Russian site that had a primitive set up and instructions, not
                          speaking Russian made it difficult to glean a lot of info but I got
                          the gist, no one else would share. So if you want to clone orchids or
                          do woodcarving or stained glass, or welding or use a plasma cutter,
                          metal etching, calligraphy, clay tiles, slumped glass, antique
                          restoration, raised gold gilding.... I'm your girl!
                          (Never mind, I forgot you make that wonderful medieval Jewelry)
                          .......There's still Orchids!

                          Sorry, I am a terrible rambler.

                          Dani

                          PS, tried to buys some of your paper, but it was storming here last
                          night and playing havoc with my connection, I'll try again Sunday,
                          Or... you could just mail me an invoice for one Blue Spanish Sunspot,
                          one Tortoiseshell, and one Moire (any color on the last one, pick your
                          favorite) I don't have any watercolor marbled paper. They will go into
                          the collection of papers that are not to be cut, lol


                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > You really need a full year in a place to get the feel of it and
                          have it run smoothly MOST of the time. There will always be those days.
                          >
                          > Not to say you go back to the dark ages for a year, just that you
                          have to keep on top of your adjustments is all. Even marbling in the
                          morning will be different from the afternoon as temps change. You will
                          with patience get to the point where you know what to do.
                          >
                          > Being self taught, I never had a clue about PH or hard or soft water
                          or additives. In fact I started when people were still using bunches
                          of the dried seaweed and the size always came out a bit different. Boy
                          did we have troubles then! But you just dealt with them, always making
                          the size too thick so you could water it down right, never risking
                          that it came out too thin to work. And sometimes it still did. So you
                          do things like marble really shallow so the pattern swims around less.
                          There really is a solution to every problem, sometimes it takes a bit
                          of fiddling with. Look on it as fun experimenting.
                          >
                          > Iris Nevins
                          > www.marblingpaper.com
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: spurioussignals<mailto:mercurial@...>
                          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 1:11 PM
                          > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                          >
                          >
                          > Iris and Gretchen,
                          >
                          > I will try the alternative brushes you both mentioned. I probably just
                          > washed mine to hard but would like to have some that can be washed or
                          > just tossed.
                          >
                          > We are on a well so I have been using distilled water for everything.
                          >
                          > The temp and humidity might be a factor, we have had really radical
                          > weather changes, like everyone else. Coat weather one day with the
                          > heat on, AC the next.
                          >
                          > I think you are right, I have been making it too complicated. I just
                          > expected everything to go perfect because I had such wonderful results
                          > in Galen's class. I probably won't be able to get him to come by every
                          > morning and set up my tray and paint mixed to the right consistency
                          > etc. The whisk already in them etc. Darn, that was nice. It was so
                          > much fun and I made 30 something pieces of paper over the weekend
                          > workshop, they were not perfect but it was mainly due to technique,
                          > shifting the paper, printing the side without alum, etc. It was so
                          > simple then I guess I just expected it would be when I got home. But
                          > I'm no Galen.
                          >
                          > I am going to take your advise Iris and just chill out relax and stop
                          > making everything so complicated, just experiment and have fun.
                          >
                          > Thanks so much to you both you have been such a big help and
                          inspiration.
                          > Have a great weekend,
                          > Dnai
                          >
                          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
                          "irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Oh yes.. I meant to respond about the whisks. I have always bought a
                          > cheap plastic whisk brooms at the supermarket, thin plastic straws. I
                          > cut them off and tie with a rubber band. The real broom straws always
                          > molded on me in the summer.
                          > >
                          > > Regarding PH etc. water chemistry changes things for sure. I never
                          > bothered measuring such things myself, but have always been able to
                          > adapt to wherever I was. A new spot will be different but I have found
                          > it easy to adapt without getting into trying to change water
                          > chemistry. You could use bottled or distilled water, I don't due to
                          > having a 12 gallon marbling trough. To lug all that in or to distill
                          > it here would be a nightmare. I try to take the easiest route.
                          > >
                          > > I find hot humid weather to be the most bothersome to marbling.
                          > About 65 degrees and 40-50% humidity really rocks my boat... and
                          > papers. Still we do manage to work during the worst summer days.
                          > Getting the room to the same temp. artificially never seems to be the
                          > same as the natural weather though, which I can't figure out... but
                          > also do not dwell on it, but adapt. It always looks better in cold dry
                          > winter for me.
                          > >
                          > > Here I have the most awful hard water on earth I think. The only ill
                          > effect is that I need to use a little more carrageenan powder to make
                          > it suitably viscous. Nothing more. it has lime, iron, all sorts of
                          > stuff supposed to prevent marbling. No problem at all.
                          > >
                          > > Just experiment until things work for you. It may mean thinning the
                          > paints ironically, sometimes that leaves more on the size surface,
                          > which contacts the paper. What looks bright on the size may have
                          > actually started to sink a little below and not adhere to the paper,
                          > so it come up duller.
                          > >
                          > > try anything and everything, even if it seems strange, you never
                          know!
                          > >
                          > > Iris Nevins
                          > >
                          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: gretchen
                          vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002<mailto:fine_artist2002>@...>
                          > > To:
                          Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>

                          > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:01 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hello , I am not a paper marbler,but a fabric marbler. I make my
                          > broom brushes from "brooms" I cut them soak them several times in
                          > water to get any processed chemicals added to it.,dry and make them
                          > into brushes! I am not a paper marbler as I said but I do know the
                          > humidity and temperature of room,supplies,paints ,plus pH of your
                          > water ,are what makes or breaks a marbling session. I moved last
                          > year,an have a new space ,unfortunately I am still trying to conquer
                          > the temp /humidity aspects. I haven't had a good marbling session
                          > since 2006. But I have read here that Galen is the champ at adapting
                          > to his area? So good luck and try try try peace Gretchen
                          > vansantdesigns.etsy.com vansantdesigns.blogspot.com
                          > >
                          > > spurioussignals
                          <mercurial@<mailto:mercurial<mailto:mercurial@<mailto:mercurial>@...>>
                          wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • scorpion1y6
                          Hi Dani, I have also taken Galen s class, first a year ago, and repeated last month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn t a problem for
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 21, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Dani,

                            I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                            month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                            problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                            products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                            of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                            stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                            thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                            what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                            crackled everywhere.

                            When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                            and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                            just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                            He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                            have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                            for washing. Much better!

                            I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                            buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                            given me results as nice as Galen's products.

                            Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                            seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                            do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                            heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                            too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                            believe I have any problems with this.

                            Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                            I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.

                            Vickie
                          • irisnevins
                            Yup...alum in the tray will do that! Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but works! Iris Nevins
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 21, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yup...alum in the tray will do that!

                              Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but works!

                              Iris Nevins
                              www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>
                              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
                              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


                              Hi Dani,

                              I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                              month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                              problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                              products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                              of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                              stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                              thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                              what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                              crackled everywhere.

                              When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                              and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                              just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                              He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                              have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                              for washing. Much better!

                              I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                              buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                              given me results as nice as Galen's products.

                              Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                              seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                              do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                              heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                              too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                              believe I have any problems with this.

                              Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                              I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.

                              Vickie




                              Yahoo! Groups Links





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • susanne martin
                              I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text? Thanks, Susanne
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a
                                lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text?

                                Thanks,
                                Susanne


                                >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
                                >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                                >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:42:59 -0400
                                >
                                >Yup...alum in the tray will do that!
                                >
                                >Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but
                                >works!
                                >
                                >Iris Nevins
                                >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>
                                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
                                > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Dani,
                                >
                                > I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                                > month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                                > problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                                > products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                                > of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                                > stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                                > thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                                > what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                                > crackled everywhere.
                                >
                                > When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                                > and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                                > just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                                > He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                                > have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                                > for washing. Much better!
                                >
                                > I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                                > buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                                > given me results as nice as Galen's products.
                                >
                                > Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                                > seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                                > do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                                > heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                                > too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                                > believe I have any problems with this.
                                >
                                > Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                                > I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.
                                >
                                > Vickie
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >

                                _________________________________________________________________
                                Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings
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                              • julieann.stella
                                Hi, Dani! You ve gotten a lot of great advice here from people much more experienced than I, but I thought I d offer one little thing to try...you mentioned
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi, Dani! You've gotten a lot of great advice here from people much more experienced
                                  than I, but I thought I'd offer one little thing to try...you mentioned that you are using your
                                  carrageenan size straight from the fridge. You might try warming it to room temp first, if
                                  you're not already doing that.

                                  Best of luck to you! It stinks when you go through all the preparation and then have
                                  technical problems at the tray. I am so impatient with the technical stuff. Sometimes, I
                                  solve my problems with chocolate, HGTV and sulking.

                                  :)
                                  Julie

                                  www.lostmymarbles.etsy.com

                                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "spurioussignals" <mercurial@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello to all,
                                  >
                                  > I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dani, I live in North
                                  > Carolina and have recently started marbling. I took weekend workshop
                                  > in acrylic marbling with Galen Berry in Chicago at the center for book
                                  > and paper arts and I am positively addicted! I have kept in touch with
                                  > a classmate who attends college there full time and we are both having
                                  > some problems we have been unable to solve. I will refer her to the
                                  > site so that she can better tell you what she is having difficulty with.
                                  >
                                  > My biggest problems now are colors not dark enough and grainy paint.
                                  > I am using Utrecht acrylic pigments and carrageenan size. I am Mixing
                                  > the size the day before, refrigerating it over night and using it
                                  > straight form the fridge. I alum the paper a couple days in advance
                                  > but keep it in a 2 gal. Zip lock bag. The grainy gritty look only
                                  > happens when I am trying to get dark rich colors. I have not had to
                                  > add much gall to get the colors to spread unless it is one of the last
                                  > colors applied and those are not the colors that turn grainy so I
                                  > don't think it is the gall. For the most part all I can get are very
                                  > light colors. I mix the colors right out of the tube to the
                                  > consistency of cream, when tested on dry paper the mass tones are
                                  > close to the original color. Even when the size is pretty well
                                  > saturated with paint the printed sheet looks a little washed out. The
                                  > pigments are sticking, not washing off when rinsed.
                                  >
                                  > Here was one of my test. I added drops of a dark green (a mixture) to
                                  > clean size covering approximately 60% of the surface. Then continued
                                  > to add a drop at a time of the same color to the center of each
                                  > circle creating bullseyes. After doing this four or five times the
                                  > center rings turn grainy. The other rings of color remained smooth and
                                  > cohesive. I continued to do this until the last drop of pigment sank
                                  > so the surface was pretty saturated, the grainy effects happen before
                                  > the last drops sink. This happens with several other colors and I have
                                  > done the test using only one color at a time to make sure it is not a
                                  > compatibility issue. I am running a humidifier in the room to keep
                                  > dust particles down but I am not sure of the exact humidity level. I
                                  > am going to pick up a digital hygrometer/thermometer later today. The
                                  > temp. where I work has been anywhere from 70 to maybe 80 degrees.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Does anyone have any ideas?
                                  > Thank you in advance.
                                  >
                                  > Dani
                                  >
                                • irisnevins
                                  I get it from Atlantic Papers in Pennsylvania. You have to buy a lot in bulk, I sell tubes of 25 sheets at my website. Iris Nevins
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I get it from Atlantic Papers in Pennsylvania. You have to buy a lot in bulk, I sell tubes of 25 sheets at my website.

                                    Iris Nevins
                                    www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: susanne martin<mailto:alavee15@...>
                                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 9:12 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions


                                    I love Rising Stonehenge, it is consistent. I would like to work with a
                                    lighter weight paper though. Where are some sources for the Natur Text?

                                    Thanks,
                                    Susanne


                                    >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>
                                    >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                                    >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                                    >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:42:59 -0400
                                    >
                                    >Yup...alum in the tray will do that!
                                    >
                                    >Also Natur Text from Hahnemuelle is the paper I swear by. Pricey, but
                                    >works!
                                    >
                                    >Iris Nevins
                                    >www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: scorpion1y6<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...<mailto:feefiefauxfum@...>>
                                    > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                                    > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:33 AM
                                    > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Introduction and questions
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi Dani,
                                    >
                                    > I have also taken Galen's class, first a year ago, and repeated last
                                    > month. I live in the mountains of central Arizona so humidity isn't a
                                    > problem for me, and I had a great deal of success with Galen's
                                    > products, the Texoprint paper and his marbling paints throughout most
                                    > of last year. In winter I began having so many problems I decided to
                                    > stop marbling for a couple of months until the weather warmed up,
                                    > thinking it was the unheated room I was working in. My papers all had
                                    > what I call "fracturing" all over them, the paints were crazed and
                                    > crackled everywhere.
                                    >
                                    > When I took Galen's advanced class last month he watched me marbling,
                                    > and he was able identify my problem, which was holding the
                                    > just-printed paper over the carrageenan size to drip before rinsing.
                                    > He said the alum was running off into the size and contaminating it. I
                                    > have stopped doing that by immediately transferring my print to a tray
                                    > for washing. Much better!
                                    >
                                    > I use Galen's paints as well as those in the ProChemical line which I
                                    > buy online. I also use Masa paper from Daniel Smith online. Both have
                                    > given me results as nice as Galen's products.
                                    >
                                    > Re: wrinkled paper, I haven't had any problems with Texoprint, it
                                    > seems to flatten itself well. Masa takes a bit more pressing, which I
                                    > do after coating with alum, air-drying, then pressing overnight under
                                    > heavy books with the papers sandwiched between clean newsprint. I,
                                    > too, keep my dry alum-coated papers in a large ziplock, and I don't
                                    > believe I have any problems with this.
                                    >
                                    > Good luck to you, and keeping trying! It's such a rewarding art and
                                    > I'm enjoying it immensely, as well as this very informative group.
                                    >
                                    > Vickie
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >

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                                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Dave Allen
                                    Dani, The brass edged boards are for pressing books. That puts the groove at the spine and helps adhere the hinge. Normally one doesn t press them together
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Apr 23, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dani,
                                      The brass edged boards are for pressing books. That puts the groove at
                                      the spine and helps adhere the hinge. Normally one doesn't press them
                                      together without enough between them to keep the brass edges from
                                      touching. They will make a cracking noise, however, if they are
                                      varnished plywood and haven't been pressed for a while.
                                      Dave Allen


                                      spurioussignals wrote:
                                      > When I tightened the press down it made a cracking noise so it seemed
                                      > like a good time to stop;-) I think I need different boards for this
                                      > purpose the ones that came with the press have brass edges and I am
                                      > afraid of damaging them.
                                      >


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                                      Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                                      840 Snowdrop Ave. Victoria BC V8Z 2N4
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